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Wheel torque


bigredhdt

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I don’t work on my own tires but I carry a 48” torque wrench that goes to 650 ft/lbs.  Part of my pre-season ritual is to check the torque on every wheel before our first trip then I repeat several times during the year.  As an anecdote I was with another member of this forum when he was getting a wheel worked on and as the tech removed his wheel cover on a steer tire (which also covered the lug nuts) two nuts fell off in his hand.  That was eye opening.

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53 minutes ago, jenandjon said:

Yea, We hammer em on with a Inch air impact until they stop turning.

That is how to stretch the studs.  That procedure works only if you have a torque monitoring extension.

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Having been from the stud-piloted-wheel era, I always use nevr-sieze on bolts/lug nuts etc. Trying to get a wheel off with the old Budd wheels stud/nut combinations is not fun if they are seized. Apparently now that is a no-no, since it throws off the torque reading. My torque method is the #8AYS torque spec. Defined, that is a 3/4 ratchet with an 8' bar w/ All Your Strength. (That has been arrived at being the proper torque, because that's what it takes to get the lugs off when having been put on by a 1" air gun.)

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16 minutes ago, ARGO said:

Having been from the stud-piloted-wheel era, I always use nevr-sieze on bolts/lug nuts etc. Trying to get a wheel off with the old Budd wheels stud/nut combinations is not fun if they are seized. Apparently now that is a no-no, since it throws off the torque reading. My torque method is the #8AYS torque spec. Defined, that is a 3/4 ratchet with an 8' bar w/ All Your Strength. (That has been arrived at being the proper torque, because that's what it takes to get the lugs off when having been put on by a 1" air gun.)

If you have Aluminum hub pilot wheels, steel hubs, and run in the salt at times, it is a good idea to use never seize on the hubs. I have had to get the port a power out to push wheels off before.

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I guess I'm just old school, but I still put them on with a 1" impact.  Like I did when I was in the business and what every tire shop that I've seen do also.  
Our trucks would average 100,000 miles a year and cant recall ever having a issue with loose lug nuts.

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I also lent my torque multiplier to a friend to do a brake job on the front of his truck.  After reinstalling the lugs nuts with the multiplier he took the truck to a tire shop to make sure they were tight.  He said they couldn't tighten the nuts anymore then they were.

 

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Old school rule of thumb, if using any lube (anti-seize) on the threads, decrease the torque value by 10%.  I use anti-seize on everything.

Edited by rickeieio

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15 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

Old school rule of thumb, if using any lube (anti-seize) on the threads, decrease the toque value by 10%.  I use anti-seize on everything.

You know, I could have a lot of fun writing a response to that last line.😎

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33 minutes ago, GeorgiaHybrid said:

You know, I could have a lot of fun writing a response to that last line.😎

I would expect nothing less............😜

But, I gots to know......is the 10% thing pretty close, from an enjinearing point of view?  I read it many years ago in a technical article written by a fellow named Gordon Jennings.

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A torque multiplier is worthless, without a torque wrench. Just sayin'. Otherwise, both are assumed to be equally accurate, but the extension requires multiple items to cover the range of a torque wrench.

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

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2 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

A torque multiplier is worthless, without a torque wrench. Just sayin'. Otherwise, both are assumed to be equally accurate, but the extension requires multiple items to cover the range of a torque wrench.

I would think that the torque multiplier would amplify the error in the torque wrench and have an error itself.  Which leads to a much bigger error than a single piece of equipment. 

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You folks have opened a very large can of worms.  Torquing a threaded assembly is just a poor man's way of stretching the fastener to it's specified clamping force. Works dandy 99.999% of the time. However, sometimes you need better accuracy and stretching, as mentioned above, is a much better process. 

Assuming that your torque wrench is properly calibrated with all the traceability documentation, that is as good as you're going to get until somebody is willing to spend a LOT of money and eventually, even that won't help any more. That leaves us with the torque multiplier. The difference is that the wrench is an "instrument" for precise measurements and the multiplier is a "tool" that does not make measurements, bur rather, aides in gathering those measurements.

At each step up in force multiplication, an additional amount of error is introduced into the function. However, that error tends to be linear and can be allowed for in the equation being solved.

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OK Paul, we could get really technical and explain why a turn of the nut method is about 90% more exact than a torqued nut and a torque stick on an impact gun will vary depending on air pressure and volume as well as the fit of the stick to the gun and to the socket. We could then move into elastic deformation of the stud or plastic deformation in torque to yield fasteners.  That could get us into a lively debate over having the threads included or excluded from the shear plane.

I decided a long time ago to just torque them to spec dry without lube and forget it.

And eieio, the 10% is a rough approximation but can be off a LOT depending on the lube used. From the sound if it, you are an expert on lube so I will that up to you. 😎

 

Edited by GeorgiaHybrid

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Also always use the 1" impact. Air pressure set at 140 lbs. Hammer then tight, and from 1984 to now. Never lost one, but guess I have been lucky. But then again every tire shop around still does that.

We always shot for 450-500 lbs of torque. And every time I would check them. Would be between those numbers.

 

 


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14 hours ago, GeorgiaHybrid said:

From the sound if it, you are an expert on lube so I will that up to you. 😎

Been married to the same woman for near 45 years and ain't seized up yet.😁

When I first discovered anti-seize, I thought it was too much bother to dab it on every fastener.  After many years of wrenching on various equipment, I keep multiple flavors of it on hand.  A little dab will do ya.

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Ok so just a thought, with some motor homes the tag axle has a single wheel.  For those that are not singled, what are the thoughts if removing a wheel from each side of the non drive axle?

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