Myth Busters

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Once during my work years, I ended up on a run that went into Queens NY 5 nights a week, on the directions from dispatch they read to ignore the sign "All Trucks 13.6" must exit" this was a section they called the shelf close to the Brooklyn Bridge and keep going, we also had trailers that were 12.6" just to get thru the tunnels in the city.

[rickeieio]

If you're low on DEF, just pee in the tank.

[spindrift]

25 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

If you're low on DEF, just pee in the tank.

If you do that to your Cummins, turbo boost surges.  I don't know about a Cat.

[Av8r3400]

11 hours ago, rickeieio said:

If you're low on DEF, just pee in the tank.

If you can pee enough gallonage to make a difference, go for it bud...

[rickeieio]

The different opinions about DEF are intriguing.  I've also heard that you should never get DEF from a commercial pump, and conversely, never from the jugs from a hardware store or auto parts store.  

But, from what I've read, DEF is food grade 32% urea.  Same as the feed stock for commercial liquid nitrogen fertilizer, but more refined and filtered.

But I can't drink enough beer to fill my DEF tank.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

18 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

But I can't drink enough beer to fill my DEF tank.

Just make it from high test Jameson whiskey instead of beer and cut it with water...😁😁😁. That should give you enough volume.

[Deezl Smoke]

38 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

The different opinions about DEF are intriguing.  I've also heard that you should never get DEF from a commercial pump, and conversely, never from the jugs from a hardware store or auto parts store.  

But, from what I've read, DEF is food grade 32% urea.  Same as the feed stock for commercial liquid nitrogen fertilizer, but more refined and filtered.

But I can't drink enough beer to fill my DEF tank.

 Seems to depend on the design of the def system as to what quality def is tolerable.

 Our 2 pieces of farm equipment new enough to require def, are much more forgiving than my Peterbilt rv. Once jugs of def have sat here long enough, I dump them into the farm equipment and have not had an issue. But I have to run fresh def (I have found a few suppliers that sell enough volume to never have it on the shelf for but a few days) in the Pete with it's Cummins scr. I have heard far more complaints with def issues in Cummins and Paccar than Detroit or Volvo. But that could be a local thing, I'm at the west coast.

[SuiteSuccess]

9 hours ago, Deezl Smoke said:

 Seems to depend on the design of the def system as to what quality def is tolerable.

 Our 2 pieces of farm equipment new enough to require def, are much more forgiving than my Peterbilt rv. Once jugs of def have sat here long enough, I dump them into the farm equipment and have not had an issue. But I have to run fresh def (I have found a few suppliers that sell enough volume to never have it on the shelf for but a few days) in the Pete with it's Cummins scr. I have heard far more complaints with def issues in Cummins and Paccar than Detroit or Volvo. But that could be a local thing, I'm at the west coast.

I’m not a chemist but Rick is correct.  DEF is 32.75% urea and and 67.25% deionized water.  Doesn’t matter if it’s the Blue stuff or Walmart brand in my opinion.  You can even purchase urea crystals and make your own if you were so inclined.  The only way I would think it could “go bad” is if evaporation changed that ratio and the solution concentrated.  At some point with evaporation you would begin to see crystal formation so if that occurred would definitely not use it. BTW you can test with one of these.

https://www.amazon.com/Antifreeze-Coolant-Refractometer-Automobile-Windshield/dp/B07DLDZFJX/ref=asc_df_B07DLDZFJX/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312184309594&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2222720488000561698&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9013361&hvtargid=pla-568291110880&psc=1&mcid=473b2b43b7003ff6bf7155dfeba59262&gclid=CjwKCAiA44OtBhAOEiwAj4gpOXGYNK9aZKmtMjd-YONuPRd7Z7JuHBAkFjUEYnFlCm6IoMS0fOC1yRoCr0wQAvD_BwE

[rickeieio]

8 minutes ago, SuiteSuccess said:

The only way I would think it could “go bad” is if evaporation

There's another way it can "go bad".  If it gets cold, the nitrogen will crystalize and precipitate out.  Of course, when it warms up again, the crystals will re-enter the solution.

I buy my DEF from a local fuel supplier who serves a lot of commercial vehicles.  Several fleets of PACCAR dump trucks fuel there, so I ought to be good.  The only time I've bought DEF from another source was at a grocery chain fuel station in Hutchinson, KS.  4x the price at a truck stop.

[spindrift]

There are expiration dates on the jugs that you purchase separately.  The manufacturer's make those numbers extremely challenging for the challenged like me to understand. 

[Danfreda1]

2 hours ago, rickeieio said:

There's another way it can "go bad".  If it gets cold, the nitrogen will crystalize and precipitate out.  Of course, when it warms up again, the crystals will re-enter the solution.

I buy my DEF from a local fuel supplier who serves a lot of commercial vehicles.  Several fleets of PACCAR dump trucks fuel there, so I ought to be good.  The only time I've bought DEF from another source was at a grocery chain fuel station in Hutchinson, KS.  4x the price at a truck stop.

Rick you’re getting def for a little over a dollar a gallon? 

[jenandjon]

We get DEF in a 300-gallon tote. I guess I don't know how much it cost. I never see the bill. 

[Deezl Smoke]

6 hours ago, rickeieio said:

There's another way it can "go bad".  If it gets cold, the nitrogen will crystalize and precipitate out.  Of course, when it warms up again, the crystals will re-enter the solution.

I buy my DEF from a local fuel supplier who serves a lot of commercial vehicles.  Several fleets of PACCAR dump trucks fuel there, so I ought to be good.  The only time I've bought DEF from another source was at a grocery chain fuel station in Hutchinson, KS.  4x the price at a truck stop.

 Yep. Though it won't always go back into solution 100%, which is where issues can rise. Letting the container, large or small, sit in the sun can also oxidized the solution.

 I've melted a fair bit of dry fertilizers into water over the years. Some exothermic, and some endothermic. Mixing urea with water (in an ag setting) would form a lot of ice outside the vat.

 Personally, I'm not as much concerned about the brand of the def, as I am about how long it's been sitting on the shelf,....outside in the weather,....with the box faded and the foil seal compromised because of it.

[rickeieio]

6 hours ago, Danfreda1 said:

Rick you’re getting def for a little over a dollar a gallon? 

No.  In the example above, in Hutch, it was $19/jug.  That's $7.60/gal.  Last DEF I bought was a little over $3/gal, so my math was off a bit.

2 hours ago, Deezl Smoke said:

Personally, I'm not as much concerned about the brand of the def, as I am about how long it's been sitting on the shelf,....outside in the weather,....with the box faded and the foil seal compromised because of it.

Yep, again, in Hutch, the box was faded and tattered.  Seal was intact though.

Luckily, we seem to use about 3/4 tank of def over about 2,000 mi.  I can nearly always fill at my local (trusted) place.

[mike5511]

Around here, we "just say no" to DEF! 

[Lou Schneider]

• I'm surprised no one has marketed ABC (brand) DEF.

[rickeieio]

How do I get coffee out of my keyboard?🤣

[jenandjon]

With the deep freeze hitting us I thought I would bring up fuel jelling. It was -18 with a -45-wind chill here the other day. It has now warmed up to a balmy -6. Luckily, we had no problems here on the farm because we have blended fuel plus, I topped all the equipment off with straight number 1 fuel. 

 

Does wind chill effect fuel jelling?

[SuiteSuccess]

1 hour ago, jenandjon said:

Does wind chill effect fuel jelling?

No!  Only the ambient temperature.  For example wind chill will not freeze water in a container if the outside temperature is above 32* but the wind chill might be 15*.

[rickeieio]

Always run the maximum air pressure stamped on the sidewall of the tire.  T/F?

[lappir]

2 hours ago, rickeieio said:

Always run the maximum air pressure stamped on the sidewall of the tire.  T/F?

Depends on if you are always or at least often at maximum weight being carried. 

 

[Ray,IN]

4 hours ago, rickeieio said:

Always run the maximum air pressure stamped on the sidewall of the tire.  T/F?

False. Tire pressure depends on GAWR.

[jenandjon]

10 hours ago, rickeieio said:

Always run the maximum air pressure stamped on the sidewall of the tire.  T/F?

I used to believe that. My first trip with the HDT changed that really quick. I had a light 5th wheel. The tires called for 65 lbs. They were getting older, so I ordered new ones they required 85 lbs. I don't remember the load ratings It was too long ago. Anyway, we take off on our first trip with the drive tires all aired up to 110 and 85 on the trailer. That was the roughest miserable trip ever.

Now I'm running 75 in the drive tires, and I have a bigger trailer now the tires say 110. I'm only running 85. 

[rickeieio]

What brought this myth to the top was when I was checking pressures on the truck yesterday.  Drives say 110 psi.  I aired to 70 psi.  Manufacturer's chart doesn't go so low as to recommend pressure for our load, so rather than risk having a tire come off the bead, I run more air.

I also noted that my steers are only rated for 75 mph at max load and pressure.  We're about 90% of max load, so I feel the occasional blast above that speed to make a clean pass is okay.

[Deezl Smoke]

1 hour ago, rickeieio said:

What brought this myth to the top was when I was checking pressures on the truck yesterday.  Drives say 110 psi.  I aired to 70 psi.  Manufacturer's chart doesn't go so low as to recommend pressure for our load, so rather than risk having a tire come off the bead, I run more air.

I also noted that my steers are only rated for 75 mph at max load and pressure.  We're about 90% of max load, so I feel the occasional blast above that speed to make a clean pass is okay.

 So I'm not sure if this statement I am making is myth or fact, but IIRC, DOT ratings for tire speed and other applications, are minimum 2x safety rated, possibly 3x. So the 75mph rating at max advertised load, on average, in approved testing environments should not fail until a minimum of 150mph. Now I am certain that temperature and other variables are considered, but in lab testing under guidelines approved by DOT, the 75mph is half or less of "lab test" failure speed.? I honestly do not know, just what I remember "hearing" years back. Likely myth, but....

 

 For no real good reason, I seem to, on average, take my steer tire conditions and pressures more seriously than the drives. IE: I tend to run them, though lower than marked on the tire, higher than what I would run for ride quality. I am lighter on the steers than most here, and much of that is because I am still tandem drive and have some weight behind the drive trunnion.