The State of California has given me 20 days to register my Texas LIcensed vehicle

[rbdaves]

I hope I am posting this in the correct place.  If not, hopefully, someone will advise:  We have received a letter from California Highway Patrol instructing us to get our Texas Licensed Toad registered in the state of California within 20-days.  We have been full-time RVrs since 1995 and have licensed and insured our vehicles in the state of Texas.  Is there anyone we can talk to at Escapees that can help us?  Below is what has been provided as "some" of the criteria for determining CA residency and our status thereto.  

Criteria                                                                                                                                 Our Status

Address where registered to vote                                                                           Texas

Location of employment                                                                                              Retired

Payment of resident tuition at a public institution of higher learning        None

Attendance of dependents at a primary or secondary school                      None

Filing a homeowners property tax exemption                                                    None

Renting or leasing a home for use as a resident                                                  None

Declaration of residence to obtain a license or any other

        Privilege or benefit not ordinarily extended to a nonresident              None

Possession of a California Driver’s License                                                            No-Licensed and insured in TX

Other acts. Occurrences or events that indicate presence in the  

State is more than temporary or transient                                                            Catch-all and not understood.

 

Not mentioned by the state      

Where we are registered to vote                                                                             Texas

Where one of us has served jury duty                                                                    Texas                                                   

Social Memberships                                                                                                       Escapees, Livingston TX

                                                                                                                                                Benevolent order of Elks, Wallace, ID

 Where we do the majority of our our banking                                                   Washington

Where we do our investing                                                                                         Financial Advisor- Bellevue, Washington

 Where our money comes from                                                                                 Pension, social security, investments

We were out of the state for 183 days in 2018.

Can anybody tell us what to do or what to expect?

[Barbaraok]

183 days out of state = 181 days IN STATE.  Sounds like someone turned you in for being in one place for over 6 months?  California is tax hungry, so maybe you need to adjust your living style and move around the state and spend less time there.

[lappir]

I am not an expert, but do have questions regarding your letter/notification. 

Where was it mailed to? 

Are you utilizing any California specific benefit's other than the usual climate? 

In the 1980's I spent several months in California as a Travel Nurse. The suggestion  I would need to register my vehicle came up a couple of times, but never from a LEO. There have been others who I have read about having a similar problem such as your's, usually after a traffic offence causing an interaction with a LEO. Some complied others declined it's been a long time ago and I do not recall anyone having a specific issue either way. Good luck and let us know how you resolve it. 

Rod

 

 

[sandsys]

Do you have a lease lot in an RV park? if so, what is the period of the lease? Is that where you received that mail? Do you have receipts that show you were out of state that long? Since it is close to half time it may look to California as if you live there but travel just enough to make it look like you don't. I always wondered how people at the SKP park in California deal with it being in California.

Linda Sand

[docj]

The OP says that the letter they received directed them to get the toad registered in CA.  Was there an equivalent letter sent about their MH?  If not, I would wonder why one vehicle is different from the other.

Here's a link a an interesting article on this exact topic.  The attorney who wrote it stresses the fact that "why" you are in the State is more important than "how long" you spend there.  Owning a vacation property isn't a problem, in his opinion, but "acting" as if you live there is.

I can't claim to fully understand where the line is that you aren't supposed to cross, but the bad news is that the tax assessor acts with a presumption of being correct and the taxpayer has to be able to disprove the assessor's presumption.

CA residency issue

[JRP]

Under California Law you become a resident if you are in California for other than a “temporary or transitory purpose”. They leave that term loosely defined on purpose and say each situation will be investegated and decided on the specifics of each case. So most of those other criteria you list are almost irrellevant in Ca. You appear to spend 6 months of the year in Ca, which is strike one. Do you stay in one place? Do you rent, lease, own that place?  You're there for 6 months, but do not associate with any Ca organizations? You don;t do any part time or seasonal work, or volunteering? The Ca authorities will concentrate on what you did while in CA and pay little attention to your setup in TX, unless you actually own a home in TX.

Many years ago when I managed large construction projects in Ca, using a mix of local & out of state workers, they would recieve dozens of these letters each year. We frequently had CHP cruising our parking lot writing down out of state licenses. Your choices are comply, fight it or get out of the state quickly.  Some were successful in fighting it, but the fight usually dragged on for a year or more, and some required return trips to the state & paid legal representation. Since we had plently of jobs available in other states, most of the guys sent the CHP a reply saying they and their vehicle would be out of California the next day. These guys did have paid employment within CA even if it was only for a few months, so they fall into a different category. Based on what you've told us, so far.

One big caution, if you give in and agree to register the vehicle in Ca, the next letter you receive will be from the Ca Franchise Tax Board saying you owe them Ca state income taxes on all your retirement & investment income for the 6 months you were a part year resident of Ca.  Here is an article from a law firm we used, that is very familiar with the bullying tactics of the Ca FTB.  

https://www.taxlitigator.com/a-temporary-and-transitory-visit-with-california-residency/

 

 

[OU812]

  I just wonder if.... that state law covers vehicles from California, out of California traveling for a long length of time (30 days or more), do they needing to register to another state?    People wonder why I don't go to California very often.  The land of fruit and nuts...   OU812

[rynosback]

I would guess that they have been staying in one spot for an extended period of time as they did not state where or how long they have been there.  I have heard about CA doing this.  It has me worried when I visit CA as a tourist.  But I guess if I do not stay in a place more then a month I should be OK.  It is a LARGE state and a lot to see.  I will be watching this thread closely.  Maybe the poster will fill in more details.  Or maybe they won’t as once it is on the net it is always on it.

[JRP]

1 hour ago, docj said:

The OP says that the letter they received directed them to get the toad registered in CA.  Was there an equivalent letter sent about their MH?  If not, I would wonder why one vehicle is different from the other.

Many times this happens because an officer noticed the same out of state vehicle parked in the same shopping lot, parking lot,  or public place on mutiple ocassions over an extended duration. If the RV never leaves the RV Park, it likely wouldn't be noticed. The CHP letter is in response to an officer's input on a specific vehicle. They don't research other vehicles owned by the same owner until the investigation moves up a level.

[rynosback]

1 hour ago, JRP said:

Under California Law you become a resident if you are in California for other than a “temporary or transitory purpose”. They leave that term loosely defined on purpose and say each situation will be investegated and decided on the specifics of each case. So most of those other criteria you list are almost irrellevant in Ca. You appear to spend 6 months of the year in Ca, which is strike one. Do you stay in one place? Do you rent, lease, own that place?  You're there for 6 months, but do not associate with any Ca organizations? You don;t do any part time or seasonal work, or volunteering?

Many years ago when I managed large construction projects in Ca, using a mix of local & out of state workers, they would recieve dozens of these letters each year. We frequently had CHP cruising our parking lot writing down out of state licenses. Your choices are comply, fight it or get out of the state quickly.  Some were successful in fighting it, but the fight usually dragged on for a year or more, and some required return trips to the state & paid legal representation. Since we had plently of jobs available in other states, most of the guys sent the CHP a reply saying they and their vehicle would be out of California the next day. These guys did have paid employment within CA even if it was only for a few months, so they fall into a different category. Based on what you've told us, so far.

One big caution, if you give in and agree to register in Ca, I can assure you the next letter you receive will be from the Ca Franchise Tax Board saying you owe them Ca state income taxes on all your retirement & investment income for the 6 months you were a part year resident of Ca.  Here is an article from a law firm we used, that is very familiar with the bullying tactics of the Ca FTB.  

https://www.taxlitigator.com/a-temporary-and-transitory-visit-with-california-residency/

 

 

Thanks for the link.  A lot of good information there.

[rynosback]

33 minutes ago, JRP said:

Many times this happens because an officer noticed the same out of state vehicle parked in the same shopping lot, parking lot,  or public place on mutiple ocassions over an extended duration. If the RV never leaves the RV Park, it likely wouldn't be noticed. The CHP letter is in response to an officer's input on a specific vehicle. They don't research other vehicles owned by the same owner until the investigation moves up a level.

I think you are correct.  I think they have been in one location for a while.  They have two posts.  This thread and asking about renewing there TX DL.  

http://www.rvnetwork.com/topic/126485-need-info-on-renewing-my-drivers-license/?tab=comments#comment-883317

As they are in CA and they can no longer renew by mail or online.  And in there profile it states they live in CA.

https://www.m109riders.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=381260&d=1544404340

[RV_]

During my military career we encountered many states that had a 30 day rule like Texas and Louisiana did back when I was active duty and the only exceptions were for military active duty maintaining a "home state" where we indicated we were going to return. I paid Louisiana state income tax the whole 7 years I was in Germany after we left Louisiana. No way to change. So when we did my final one year retirement tour on return from overseas, we were stationed in Texas and we became Texas residents so when we went full time in 1997 our licenses and plates were already were Texas, we then RV'd full time for seven years as Texas residents. I do remember having Texas tell me in 1975 the first time I was assigned there after basic that I had 30 days to get my license and registrations switched over. IN 1971 Louisiana did the same, and I became a Louisiana resident as the taxes were much less than my home state of Connecticut. When I took a break in service for college in 1981, Louisiana made me wait a year of residence before I could pay resident college tuition. What happened to the 30 day rule then?

Just remember the old saw that "You can't beat city hall." I'd get out of California Mo Scoshi and settle down one state over in any direction where  they will not harass you for being a snowbird RVr. We traveled and rarely stayed in one place more than a month year round. We had family property where we came off the road and bought this 5 acre property so we had to become Louisiana residents again. We will become Colorado residents with all the benefits that comes with living in Colorado as soon as we find the right house.

Military folks active and retired remember the residency issues well.

[rynosback]

3 minutes ago, RV_ said:

 

JUst remember the old saw that "You can't beat city hall."

Death and taxes..

[RV_]

Amen brother! At least in Colorado I can console myself with some edibles when I pay my taxes and register my vehicles.

[NDBirdman]

I feel Aridzona is just as unfriendly!  Stationed there for 6 years, remained an IN resident, paid IN taxes every year.  Left AZ, went to NM for 5 years then went to Germany.  2 years living in Germany, I get a threatening letter from Aridzona demanding I pay back taxes for all those years.  Took many expensive phone calls, many letters, sent copies of tax forms (luckily we had them still and with us) twice to get them to realize I was military and a non-resident of AZ and did indeed pay *my* state taxes to the state I was a *legal* resident of.  What a pain in the arse!  I will forever avoid that lousy state and spend my tourist/tax $$ elsewhere.  CA... never happen.  Dislike that state even worse.

[Kirk W]

11 hours ago, rbdaves said:

We have received a letter from California Highway Patrol instructing us to get our Texas Licensed Toad registered in the state of California within 20-days. 

 

Is there any indication of what happens next if you do not comply? If not, have you inquired to see what the penalty may be? How and where are you to respond or contest the demand? I suspect that this probably isn't the best place to get advice since I don't believe any of us are attornies practicing in CA so probably you need to ask some questions to see what will happen if you don't relicense the vehicle. Depending on what the response may be, you probably need to either leave the state of CA for a period of time or contact a local attorney. 

[rbdaves]

thanks to everyone for your responses.  WE are communicating with the California Highway Patro. who sent us the letter.  We'll see what comes next.  

[Kirk W]

If you will, we would appreciate an update as things progress as this could possibly happen to others.

[rynosback]

1 hour ago, Kirk W said:

If you will, we would appreciate an update as things progress as this could possibly happen to others.

And a few more details on the situation.  As I hate to ASS-U-ME.

[bigjim]

If it was me I would sure change that my headquarters is located at JoJoba and on any other site that you might put this type of information.  I would think if they could show that statement of location alone could increase your difficulty in dealing with this or future situations.  JMO

[2gypsies]

If, indeed, the OP is overstaying his time at Jojoba and registered in Texas then he and many others in Jojoba will be cited.

[rynosback]

It would really be nice to hear the complete story/details about the event.  And what the results are. <eating popcorn>

[Twotoes]

Not quiet on topic but related. A friend of mine moved from Calif to TX. As a resident of TX both his vehicle and his wife’s were registered in TX and both of them got a TX drivers liscense. Upon moving back to Calif almost 2 years later they went to reregister their vehicles in CA and were to,d by CA DMV that they had to pay the last 2 years missed in CA. They advised CA DMV that they were residents of TX for the last 2years and now we’re moving back to CA. DMV wouldn’t budge and they had to pay the back fees in order to re-register in CA.  

[rbdaves]

33 minutes ago, rynosback said:

It would really be nice to hear the complete story/details about the event.  And what the results are. <eating popcorn>

We've responded with info similar to what was in our first post and are waiting to see what happens next.  We have talked to others in our park that have received similar letters and they responded similarly to how we did and heard nothing further.  

[rynosback]

2 hours ago, rbdaves said:

We've responded with info similar to what was in our first post and are waiting to see what happens next.  We have talked to others in our park that have received similar letters and they responded similarly to how we did and heard nothing further.  

  How did they say that they came about serving you that letter?  So the letter had a list of questions that you had to answer?  I had heard about CA trying to enforce this for a while.  I am just trying to under stand the complete circumstances so I can avoid them.

Not to presume anything, but I get the impression that you have been in this one location for a while.