YNP Griz attack

[agesilaus]

One fellow killed by bears.

Article

Very little info in the story. Guy was hiking alone, sounds like he was way out in the back country, and did not return. Search party found the body.

[Kirk W]

19 minutes ago, agesilaus said:

One fellow killed by bears.

Or at least believed to have been. If a hungry bear were to maul the body, if he had died in some other way, would they be able to know for sure? With him being an experienced hiker and mountain visitor I would assume that he didn't do anything foolish. 

Montana sheriff says hiker killed, grizzly bear suspected

[agesilaus]

 

That's true. Another story in the Mail says that he was searching for antler drops in Paradise Valley, he lived in Livingston, north of the park.

[Ray,IN]

Bad time of the year to encounter bear, they coming out of hibernation and are very hungry. It's also  time for females to give birth.

i too assume he was experienced with being in bear country.

[agesilaus]

On another front, some women fell off her river running raft in GCNP and did not survive the rapids..

Edited March 28, 2022 by agesilaus

[packnrat]

sad the only way to know, is for a bunch of intern's going around checking bear scat.

i know sounds bad. but is the only real way. but as for a attack? of just feasting on a dead body. is a question that can never be answered.

this is why one must never go out into the back country where bears are known to sleep for the winter.

Edited March 29, 2022 by packnrat

[bigjim]

If you are not careful and know what you are doing and what to do if something goes wrong it is a recipe for disaster. I am on the Sandia Ranger District just outside of Albq. and a young guy (20's?) lost his life just a few days back camping on the district when the weather went cold and we had snow. He had a truck and a motorcycle.  He was never more than a couple of miles at most from homes and a forest roads and a major black top.  He was able to make a call to a step dad to say he was lost. I was leaving the Ranger Station when his mom showed up and wanted to know how to get someone to search.  I told them to call 911 as here the state police starts all searches. They searched on their own first and found his truck and continued to search on their own before they came to the Ranger Station.  Really a sad situation as the best I could learn he was found in a closed group site and was not more than a half a mile from homes including a friend of mine that could have helped search with his drone. Never take stuff for granted out in nature.

Edited March 29, 2022 by bigjim

[Dutch_12078]

On 3/27/2022 at 12:47 PM, Kirk W said:

Or at least believed to have been. If a hungry bear were to maul the body, if he had died in some other way, would they be able to know for sure? With him being an experienced hiker and mountain visitor I would assume that he didn't do anything foolish. 

Montana sheriff says hiker killed, grizzly bear suspected

Medical examiners have been determining pre and postmortem wounds for many years. In general, postmortem wounds bleed very little or not at all since the heart is no longer pumping.

[JimK]

Note the statistic from the article:  bears in the Yellowstone area have killed 8 people since 2010.  That is really not much considering the millions of people who visit and the hundreds of thousands who hike and camp in the backcountry areas every year.  

An extremely rare death due to a wild animal catches our attention.  Strange when we seem to get used to 40000 deaths a year due to traffic accidents.  We consider Covid licked when the death toll drops to the current rate of a bit under a 1000 per day.  Should I even mention the close to 300,000 annual deaths attributed to medical errors?

 

[markandkim]

Glock 20

Small enough to carry, large enough for bears.

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, markandkim said:

Small enough to carry, large enough for bears.

Staying Safe in Bear Country: Bear Spray & Firearms, from the NPS website.

Quote

Firearms are not recommended for stopping an attack. Using a firearm during a bear attack may only worsen the attack. An injured bear will be more aggressive, especially during a fight. It’s also harder to hit a charging bear with a firearm rather than bear spray, and a firearm can be dangerous to any hiking partners. While firearms have been effective at stopping an attack, they aren’t recommended.

Wounded bears can be even more dangerous. If a bear is wounded with a firearm, it can potentially be defensive or aggressive. This can put park rangers and other park visitors at risk if a wounded bear must be tracked down.

Firearms are not a substitute for proper bear avoidance practices and knowing how to properly handle a bear encounter.

 

[agesilaus]

You have to read that advice above with the thought that it was probably written by an anti second amendment park ranger. Of course idiots with guns who shoot at things that they should not shoot at, including each other, don't improve that opinion.

[JimK]

I have hiked a lot in bear country.  I am also very skilled with firearms.  Unless you are willing to carry a major piece of artillery, I would much prefer bear spray over a firearm.  It can take a lot to stop a big griz when you have just have an instant to shoot.  I once saw someone discharge an expired bear canister.  It was impressive.  I think you could divert a herd of attacking bull elephants with one.  The other positive result is the bear is taught a lesson but unharmed.  

Again most of the concern is due to massively overreacting to a very rare occurrence where there is usually more to the story.  I have encounter numerous bears on backcountry trails.  As a rule they want to avoid you even more than you want to avoid them.  Make some noise when hiking and you will be lucky to even see a bear.

Edited March 29, 2022 by JimK

[agesilaus]

I don't think there is any doubt that Bear Spray is the number one choice of deterrent. But how often does it work/not work?

As for a handgun, a modern double stack pistol with modern high quality ammo, would seem to me to be effective given the large number of rounds available. 15 or 17 in most full sized 9mm. IF you have time to use it and if you can hit what you are aiming at.

[Kirk W]

Just How Would You Stop a Charging Bear?  Grand View Outdoors

Quote

Since the spinal cord is so small, it makes sense to aim at the brain. But bears have thick, strong skulls shotgun slugs or even rifle bullets may not penetrate.Jun 12, 2018  

Edited March 29, 2022 by Kirk W

[Jaydrvr]

11 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

Just How Would You Stop a Charging Bear?

 

Take away his credit cards?? 

[agesilaus]

If you have 0.5 seconds and are surprised, it doesn't matter what deterrent you carry. You will not get it deployed. Maybe with 1.5 seconds if you practice before hand. And carrying a .44 mag hand cannon around will not appeal to most of us.

My impression is that bears usually go thru a threat display before charging giving you some time to get whatever you have out, and to back away. Butt if they usually charge out of the bushes with no warning then you are done.

[Kirk W]

3 hours ago, agesilaus said:

My impression is that bears usually go thru a threat display before charging giving you some time to get whatever you have out, and to back away. Butt if they usually charge out of the bushes with no warning then you are done.

My primary source of information was the bear contact training that we had when we volunteered at Moosehorn NWR where we were told that they have the highest bear population density of anywhere in the states, partly due to the fact that they are all black bears with no brown bears(In North America, the populations of brown bears are called grizzly bears, while the subspecies that inhabits the Kodiak Islands of Alaska is known as the Kodiak bear). In that training we were told that an attack without warning is extremely rare, but has happened. Later at an NWR in MT we had an update on that training and they said that the brown or grizzly bear is more aggressive and typically will go into threat mode if startled or surprised, while the black bear will usually retreat unless very close together or a female with cubs. Training at both places pretty much agreed that if you keep looking at the bear while slowly backing away they usually will not attack but if you turn and run the likely will give chase. But all of that is hearsay as I have never tested what they told us and my only contact with any bear that was close enough to cause the threat was with a black bear and we were able to move away, leaving a trail of sweat behind. That bear probably soon forgot but we never will! 

My favorite line in the training in both cases was, stay calm!   😲

[Randyretired]

Some years ago when we were near Hyder AK watching the bears fish I met a gentleman that said he had been studying bears for over 20 years.  He talked about what he called false charges, where a bear would charge then turn away only a few feet from you.  He said he had it happen 4 times.  He carried bear spray and a side arm.  

[JimK]

Kirk, the training you received matches what I have seen and been told.  Most black bears will leave if you yell at them.  A grizzly is likely to be threatened and attack.  In either case, walking slowly backwards is the best choice.

For all of you who think a handgun is going to stop a large bear, consider that you can "kill" the bear but it will kill you before it dies.  I am pretty good with firearms but no way would I feel confident making a good shot on a charging bear let alone killing it before it was on me.

Bear spray is way more effective.  If you have ever seen a canister discharged you know what I mean.  

[Kirk W]

10 minutes ago, JimK said:

If you have ever seen a canister discharged you know what I mean.  

Ask Vern(Wrknrvr) if he thinks bear spray is effective?   😁

[durangodon]

3 hours ago, Randyretired said:

 He talked about what he called false charges, where a bear would charge then turn away only a few feet from you.  He said he had it happen 4 times.  He carried bear spray and a side arm.  

And, when exactly did he plan to use the bear spray and side arm?

[Vladimir]

In my entire professional career, I had ONE black bear almost run me over.

Nope, didn't have bear spray, nor a side arm.  

All that said, I barely had enough time to SCREAM as the closed to within 10 feet of me.

For all the gun folks, the Forest Service does have a research publication on "stopping" a  bear.

Search " Safety in bear country: protective measures and bullet performance at short range".

I only carry firearms while hunting.

I do carry bear spray in bear country, and it is at the front door of my RV.  Quite frankly, I don't expect to be using it on bear anytime soon.

BUT, if you hike in bear country, make sure it is on your belt and you can undo and FIRE the bear spray real quick.  Take a expired cannister, and practice with it.

Or you can resort to SCREAMING in terror as the bear closes in on you.   Worked for me.

 

 

[JimK]

The best defense is probably a little thought and common sense.  I suppose even the most woods savvy person can encounter a bear and not walk away.  That is extremely rare.  On the other hand some of the stunts I have seen from tourists makes me wonder why there are not more incidents.  I was hiking on a major trail in Glacier NP and several sets of hikers were coming down off the mountain and showing off their closeup cellphone pictures of a mother bear with two cubs.  A few days later a mother moose and calf were in a crowded parking lot.  Mom was upset because the calf was curious and wanted to see the tourists.  Instead of backing up, people walked closer to take pictures.  I was sure mom would attack to defend the calf but both eventually wandered off without incident.  Later that year another idiot was killed because he thought it was a good idea to take a picture next to a bison.  

[Steven@146]

An interesting discussion and timely as we will be going up into WY, MT, ID, UT and visiting Yellowstone.  I appreciate y'alls word to the wise about being cautious. We are not hard core hikers as our age and some health issues wont allow it, but do like smaller shorter less steep trails. We had a great time hiking some of the short trails in the Smoky Mts recently. We are not familiar with bears or other big park animals, you don't see too many in Indiana or Central Texas, does Long Horn cattle count?  I grew up around bulls, you keep your eye on them and stay away from them. I once had the experience of getting the he!! out of the way when a Black Angus bull crashed through two strong gates.

We know not to be stupid around animals and observe from afar. With that being said we are anticipating a great trip this summer and look forward to seeing a few animals. Along with our back packs and gear we do carry bear spray. It could be just as effective on people as it is on wild animals!

Edited March 30, 2022 by Steven@146