Fuel price differences

[Kirk W]

We just returned home from a trip of about 15 miles one way through the greater Dallas area. In doing so I noticed that gasoline prices varied by about +/- 20ȼ per gallon but diesel the exact same price at all of the stations that we passed, with exception of 2 that were 1ȼ & 2ȼ less. The diesel was running about 60ȼ higher than regular gasoline. A month or so ago diesel was typically $1 to $1.20 above regular. Gas Buddy lists gasoline in our area between $4.45 & $4.87 and diesel as $4.91 to $5.69. Because of this morning's observation I looked at the prices and all of the lower prices for diesel were at least 1 day old and the highest were mostly 12+ hours old. Since we are about to start to travel again, I have wondered what is happening in other areas?

Edited June 10, 2022 by Kirk W

[RV_]

You can track them instantly all over the country yourself here: https://www.gasbuddy.com/home

🖖

[2gypsies]

If you're determined to take a trip does it really matter that you get the exact price now?  Use GasBuddy when you're ready to need fuel even if it's not accurate.  It will be close and comparing it to others you can get the general idea of where the cheapest station is.  There's nothing else you can do about it.  Prices are changing constantly so to get an accurate number is fruitless.

I fail to understand all this hoopla about fuel prices.  It is what it is. If its too expensive then stay home or travel less.  Otherwise, just assume the trip will be costly.  Thinking about it constantly will just make you uneasy or upset.  Enjoy the trip!

[Kirk W]

2 hours ago, 2gypsies said:

I fail to understand all this hoopla about fuel prices.

 We are fortunate enough to not be seriously damaged by the prices while some folks are, but that was not part of the question asked. 

I follow the fuel prices and also those of crude oil. I am fascinated to watch the movements of prices of the various petroleum products and their relationship to other products. It used to be that diesel was always lower priced than gasoline. I suspect that the changes in gasoline composition for lowering pollution have played at least some part in that mix. What triggered my questions here was the consistency of diesel prices around the streets that we drove on, while gasoline prices still vary, as they always have. I am also wondering if the increase in fuel costs has had any impact on availability of RV sites in parks and campgrounds? 

[2gypsies]

5 hours ago, Kirk W said:

 Because of this morning's observation I looked at the prices and all of the lower prices for diesel were at least 1 day old and the highest were mostly 12+ hours old. Since we are about to start to travel again, I have wondered what is happening in other areas?

This was your question that I was answering.  Nothing to do with campgrounds.

[Kirk W]

8 minutes ago, 2gypsies said:

This was your question that I was answering. 

Where was the answer? All that I find is criticism for asking.   😏

[TXiceman]

We use Gas Buddy to check prices to see where we need to fuel.  We check along the route for better prices and stop accordingly.

Ken

[hemsteadc]

45 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

 It used to be that diesel was always lower priced than gasoline.

That seemed to be true up until around 10 years ago, at least out west.  Since then, there may be only a few months of the year it's lower.

[bruce t]

I guess some of us remember the early 1970's. Fuel was running out !!! How many folks sold their big V8's and purchased a Toyota? Many of those big V8's went to the scrap yard. Many became collectors items. Maybe we have see this movie before.

Question - Why is it that fuel prices go up over night when it suits but come down way slower when it doesn't suit? Just maybe there is some profiteering going on.

[pjstough]

Here is a chart that shows how drastic oil drilling dropped between November 2018 and August 2020, and how drilling recovering, albeit slowly. The 5 year chart is the most informative.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_oil_rotary_rigs

[2gypsies]

2 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Where was the answer? All that I find is criticism for asking.   😏

Really?

My first reply had no mention to you so I didn't criticize you.  It was general statement to those who want to travel.

In your first post all you talked about were fuel prices and that they weren't up-to-date.  You then said you'll be traveling & was wondering what's happening in other areas.  You made no mention about availability of RV sites in your first post. You were only talking about fuel prices.

[ms60ocb]

3 hours ago, pjstough said:

Here is a chart that shows how drastic oil drilling dropped between November 2018 and August 2020, and how drilling recovering, albeit slowly.

Do you suppose that the drillers have a labor shortage like everyone is experiencing.

No I haven't backed away from driving but have slowed to the speed limits. On the other side, I do drive more because I drive to a Deli to find closed early due lack of help. Or just go for a drive while the streets are absent of drivers.

In NW Illinois, you can find  gas87 under $5 or as high as $5.43

Diesel is generally is 20 to 40 cents higher than regular.

Clay

 

[Vladimir]

4 hours ago, bruce t said:

 

...................Question - Why is it that fuel prices go up over night when it suits but come down way slower when it doesn't suit? Just maybe there is some profiteering going on.

Human nature. 

The subject is covered in most beginning economics classes.  It works for all products being sold.

It is just that gas prices, since they MUST be posted are so visible and people pay attention since they buy it frequently.

If you did the same thing with eggs, milk, or any product for sale you will find the same price behavior.

[pjstough]

10 hours ago, ms60ocb said:

Do you suppose that the drillers have a labor shortage like everyone is experiencing.

No I haven't backed away from driving but have slowed to the speed limits. On the other side, I do drive more because I drive to a Deli to find closed early due lack of help. Or just go for a drive while the streets are absent of drivers.

In NW Illinois, you can find  gas87 under $5 or as high as $5.43

Diesel is generally is 20 to 40 cents higher than regular.

Clay

 

Yes, I am sure it is not easy to get all the help the drillers need. After thousands were laid of when drilling was drastically reduced I would guess that many of those laid off workers went other places to find other types of jobs, and may not want to go back to the oil patch.

[Ray,IN]

9 hours ago, pjstough said:

Yes, I am sure it is not easy to get all the help the drillers need. After thousands were laid of when drilling was drastically reduced I would guess that many of those laid off workers went other places to find other types of jobs, and may not want to go back to the oil patch.

Then there are the oil refinery closures that have happened and the U.S.A. largest refinery permanently closing in 2023.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Ray,IN

[DJohns]

I remember in 1973 when gas went from .25 to .50 per gallon. Everyone was upset. now 49 years later fuel is 10 times higher. I think wages,houses etc are about 10 times higher than back in 1973. Point is fuel being $2.30 per gallon it was way behind the inflation curve. This is also affected by the current administration and what is going on around the world. Us consumers are caught in the middle and can't do anything about it.

Edited June 12, 2022 by DJohns

[Twotoes]

My friends wife went grocery shopping the other day. When she came out of the grocery story the gas price on the coner station went up about .25 cents in the time she was shopping.

[Kirk W]

Today I filled the truck with diesel at an Exon station just south of Little Rock as it was at $5.19 and that was 10 - 20ȼ below most of the truck stops. As I got on to I40 and headed east I saw a Loves at $5.44. a Pilot at $5.49 and about 20 miles farther to the east was another Loves at $5.68.

[Ray,IN]

Kirk, 2 weeks ago at a local Speedway station, there sat a freight semi-tractor trailer waiting for the outside pump lane to clear so he could fill with diesel. I assumed it was an O/O looking to buy lower priced fuel before he got back on I69.

Right now is a tough time to be an OTR owner/operator.

Two months ago I read an article on rising fuel cost; the man forecast gas would reach $10/G by fall. Sadly he might be right.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Ray,IN

[pjstough]

On 6/14/2022 at 12:58 AM, Ray,IN said:

Kirk, 2 weeks ago at a local Speedway station, there sat a freight semi-tractor trailer waiting for the outside pump lane to clear so he could fill with diesel. I assumed it was an O/O looking to buy lower priced fuel before he got back on I69.

Right now is a tough time to be an OTR owner/operator.

Two months ago I read an article on rising fuel cost; the man forecast gas would reach $10/G by fall. Sadly he might be right.

Or he may be wrong.  As I have said many times, "It is no accident that virtually all pessimists are buried in unmarked graves."

[docj]

On 6/12/2022 at 8:53 AM, DJohns said:

I remember in 1973 when gas went from .25 to .50 per gallon. Everyone was upset. now 49 years later fuel is 10 times higher. I think wages,houses etc are about 10 times higher than back in 1973. Point is fuel being $2.30 per gallon it was way behind the inflation curve. This is also affected by the current administration and what is going on around the world. Us consumers are caught in the middle and can't do anything about it.

Actually, prices today are 6.6x the prices in 1973 according to this inflation calculator posted by the Federal Rerserve Bank:  https://www.minneapolisfed.org/about-us/monetary-policy/inflation-calculator

[bruce t]

It's all a blame game. Politicians now have the Ukraine to blame for everything. Just look at the data and see it was all happening before Russia invaded the Ukraine. Don't give a politician, any politician, any excuse to blame something they are themselves responsible for. Politicians should get out of interfering in the commercial markets and get back to playing with public policies. Their mates in the media should also take a responsibility pill and report the real facts and not just selective bits and pieces.

Look at where the USA gets its oil from and what currency it's paid for with. Then tell me how the Russians have stopped drilling in the USA and whether they are using US dollars to do it. The politicians and the oil companies are gaming the current situation. And it's not just in the USA. Here in Australia we now have power shortages. "Oh it's the Russians that have caused it". BS. Australia it a power rich country that refuses to use its own coal and gas. WHY? Because politicians are hell bent on scoring points and not worried about the average Joe who can't afford commodities that their high pay can.

"Hey man it's time to jump in the Kombi van and head to the capital to start the new revolution!!". 

Hmmm. It's great to be a grumpy old man. But 'old' means I've seen it all before. Who sold their big V8 and traded it for a 4 pot back in 1972? See what I mean?

 

 

[pjstough]

14 hours ago, bruce t said:

It's all a blame game. Politicians now have the Ukraine to blame for everything. Just look at the data and see it was all happening before Russia invaded the Ukraine. Don't give a politician, any politician, any excuse to blame something they are themselves responsible for. Politicians should get out of interfering in the commercial markets and get back to playing with public policies. Their mates in the media should also take a responsibility pill and report the real facts and not just selective bits and pieces.

Look at where the USA gets its oil from and what currency it's paid for with. Then tell me how the Russians have stopped drilling in the USA and whether they are using US dollars to do it. The politicians and the oil companies are gaming the current situation. And it's not just in the USA. Here in Australia we now have power shortages. "Oh it's the Russians that have caused it". BS. Australia it a power rich country that refuses to use its own coal and gas. WHY? Because politicians are hell bent on scoring points and not worried about the average Joe who can't afford commodities that their high pay can.

"Hey man it's time to jump in the Kombi van and head to the capital to start the new revolution!!". 

Hmmm. It's great to be a grumpy old man. But 'old' means I've seen it all before. Who sold their big V8 and traded it for a 4 pot back in 1972? See what I mean?

 

 

Here are three of the three main reasons we are seeing high fuel prices and the subsequent high inflation. One, oil companies all but stopped drilling for oil in 2020 decreasing drilling for new oil by 80% between November 2018 and August of 2020. Second, oil companies shut down five refineries in the USA in 2020.
Third, because of the pandemic there is a shortage of chips for vehicles which drove up the cost of both new and used vehicles. 

https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_oil_rotary_rigs

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-refining-capacity-shrinks-45-pandemic-shuts-plants-2021-06-25/

Edited June 16, 2022 by pjstough

[bruce t]

9 hours ago, pjstough said:

Here are three of the three main reasons we are seeing high fuel prices and the subsequent high inflation. One, oil companies all but stopped drilling for oil in 2020 decreasing drilling for new oil by 80% between November 2018 and August of 2020. Second, oil companies shut down five refineries in the USA in 2020.
Third, because of the pandemic there is a shortage of chips for vehicles which drove up the cost of both new and used vehicles. 

https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_oil_rotary_rigs

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-refining-capacity-shrinks-45-pandemic-shuts-plants-2021-06-25/

Yes that may be true for the USA but how does it account for similar issues all around the world? Covid is/was an issue but the middle east still has plenty of oil.  The USA isn't the only place that has refineries. The shortage of chips may well be an issue for new cars but that's only one factor in the high inflation and increasing interest rates. Here in Australia we have a 3.9% unemployment rate which is limiting all sorts of things simply because nothing can get done. Seasonal crops are rotting because of a lack of workers. Inflation is now 5%. So you see no one answer fits a world wide problem.

International shipping is one key. There are many others. But meddling and point scoring by politicians is the core problem. Ideology is the number one reason the world is where it is. Be it Putin's 'ideology' or climate 'ideology' plus any number of other factors. The media is obsessed with the DC riots instead of holding politicians feet to the fire for what is happening now instead of what happened in the past and can't be undone. Navel gazing wont solve any problems. But it does sell headlines.

Back to RVing.

 

[pjstough]

2 hours ago, bruce t said:

Yes that may be true for the USA but how does it account for similar issues all around the world? Covid is/was an issue but the middle east still has plenty of oil.  The USA isn't the only place that has refineries. The shortage of chips may well be an issue for new cars but that's only one factor in the high inflation and increasing interest rates. Here in Australia we have a 3.9% unemployment rate which is limiting all sorts of things simply because nothing can get done. Seasonal crops are rotting because of a lack of workers. Inflation is now 5%. So you see no one answer fits a world wide problem.

International shipping is one key. There are many others. But meddling and point scoring by politicians is the core problem. Ideology is the number one reason the world is where it is. Be it Putin's 'ideology' or climate 'ideology' plus any number of other factors. The media is obsessed with the DC riots instead of holding politicians feet to the fire for what is happening now instead of what happened in the past and can't be undone. Navel gazing wont solve any problems. But it does sell headlines.

Back to RVing.

 

So if something is in the past we shouldnt be bothered with it? So if someone is murdered, we shouldnt hunt for the killer because that happened in the past?
In a somewhat free market there is not much the government can do. In the US we could place an excess profits tax on those who seem to "gouging" as we did during WWII. Something like that is only a bandaid to cover the real problem of demand for gasoline and diesel exceeding supply.