Unhappy camper

[onemanvan]

There are rules for camping on public lands, some of them need to be revised, all of them need to be enforced. Part of the problem is the Department of the Interior ( NPS/BLM) and the Department of the Agriculture ( USFS ) have relinquished management of many campgrounds to 'For Profit Corporations' who lack the authority to enforce the rules.

Both agencies need to recognize there's a problem and take corrective action. Anyone who has camped in a public campground in recent years is familiar with the problems. Screaming kids, barking dogs, generators, boomboxes. It's no longer an escape to the peace and quiet of nature. It's more like a cross between a children's playground, dog kennel, tailgate party & construction site! The only people who are enjoying themselves are the ones who are making everyone around them miserable!

Simply posting the rules at the campground entrance is not enough - the rules need to be enforced.

Why is this important?
“One bad apple can spoil the bunch." That popular phrase is used to refer to a situation in which one person's negative demeanor or bad behavior can affect a whole group of people, influencing them to have a similar negative attitude or to engage in the same bad behavior.

No doubt the influx of inexperienced first time campers as a consequence of the pandemic has exacerbated the problems - but it's been growing steadily worse for many years now.

Whether it's the generator junkies, parents with unruly misbehaved children, dog owners who allow their dogs to bark incessantly and 'do their business' wherever the dog desires or adults who believe it's a great place to have a tailgate party - the result is the same - the only people having fun are the ones who are ruining the experience for everyone around them!

If you're one of the millions of unhappy campers then you might want to consider signing this petition to the agencies responsible for enforcing the rules. Simply posting the rules at the campground entrance is not enough - they need to start enforcing the rules!

How it will be delivered
Email to:
Tom.Vilsack@osec.usda.gov
randy.moore@usda.gov
acoleman@fs.fed.us
Laurel.Mcclean@usda.gov
wlow@fs.fed.us
katherine.e.armstrong@usda.gov
https://ask.usda.gov/s/contactsupport
Deb_Halland@ios.doi.gov
Deb.Halland@ios.doi.gov
exsec@ios.doi.gov
feedback@ios.doi.gov
doiexecsec@ios.doi.gov

Will you sign my petition and help me reach my goal? Click here to add your name:

https://sign.moveon.org/petitions/unhappy-campers?share=201076c1-4d85-43fb-8a81-8b200e523997&source=c.fwd&utm_source=c.fwd

Thanks!
John

[Star Dreamer]

The easiest way is to contact the ranger to comment about the neighbors if there are specific rules that prohibit it. They cannot be in all places of a large park to hear everything going on and would welcome your help in letting them know about an issue. I am not aware of any parks that prohibit screaming kids though. Barking dogs rules are usually in private campgrounds, I don't pay attention to see if a public campground has those rules as we do not own a dog. I believe many do have generator rules and probably noise rules that might cover the boom boxes.

What about the coyote howling or the owl hooting or worse the rooster at 5am?  Are you going to want those banned too? 

If they are not against the rules, you are free to move to another location. 

[DanZemke]

1 hour ago, onemanvan said:

Whether it's the generator junkies, parents with unruly misbehaved children, dog owners who allow their dogs to bark incessantly and 'do their business' wherever the dog desires or adults who believe it's a great place to have a tailgate party - the result is the same - the only people having fun are the ones who are ruining the experience for everyone around them! ...

Will you sign my petition and help me reach my goal?

No !

Public campgrounds are meant to be for everyone.

Edited August 26, 2021 by DanZemke
Clarity

[Pat & Pete]

Seems every camp has a host . if they can't solve the problem , then the ranger ... 

Sorry , but , I think you're barking at the moon . 

[NDBirdman]

Okay dokie, first post, not gonna happen, especially for some fly buy night poster, er, one and done.  Bet this got posted on more RV sites than here.... LOL

Second remark said: the rooster at 5am?  LOL, love hearing my roosters in the morn, they actually will go all day.  BUT, I had one young roo that for some odd reason would *bark* at the moon, ie every darn night ~2am every night.  Was funny for a while but soon got old.  I did not complain to the rooster union, we just invited him to dinner..... hehehehe

Third remark: I think you're barking at the moon... what's wrong with that?  I love barking at the moon after a couple beers.  After a glass or 2, my wife joins me... LOL

 

No offense y'all, I'm just in a quirky mood today.

[agesilaus]

You might get enforcement at a public c/g with a resident host.  Our experience is the opposite of yours. We are at a public blm designated cg 16 miles from YNP. Everyone we have met is polite, there are dogs but they aren't barkers. I am running a gen right now but will shut it off at 10PM. The place is very quiet I have a good camping gen witl low noise.

 

If you want heavy handed enforcement them you should stay at private cg or expect to pay rates about the same to pay for a reident enforcer. Rangers have a lot of other items to concern them with the cg low on their list.

[Pappy Yokum]

One post wonder.......makes you wonder ??

I'll have to pass on your petition...😕

 

 

[TXiceman]

We have been told by more than one Texas Park Superintendent, that they want everyone "To have a pleasant experience in the park".  Thus in making a pleasant experience for everyone, they can make it a miserable experience for the others by not enforcing the rules.   The offenders get their feeling hurt by rule enforcement and they call Austin to complain and Austin in turn calls the park superintendent about an unhappy camper.  So the superintendent goes lighter on the rules to keep  from getting the calls from headquarters.

The parks have rules and they need to be enforced across the board.  If the campers do not like the rules, they can go elsewhere and inflict their poor manners on  others.

The ranger or law enforcement cannot be everywhere, so as a camper, you need to make sure the manager needs to know of the issue.  If they are lacking in enforcement, then my next call is to state headquarters with a complaint about lax rule enforcement.  

The parks are beautiful and meant for EVERONE to get enjoyment from the visit to the park....not for just the few rude campers.

I relinquish my soapbox to the next person.

Ken

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, TXiceman said:

So the superintendent goes lighter on the rules to keep  from getting the calls from headquarters.

We have been campground hosts in TX as well as several other states. I never met the superintendent that you know. But it is true that the rangers can't be everywhere and it is also true that nobody can make everyone who visits happy. Most public parks have very few actual rules but plenty of people who want to make up new ones or just complain. 

[jamtracy]

9 hours ago, Pappy Yokum said:

One post wonder.......makes you wonder ??

I'll have to pass on your petition...😕

 

 

And the 55,xxx escapees number????

[Kirk W]

2 hours ago, jamtracy said:

And the 55,xxx escapees number????

He is a member of Escapees with a valid SKP number.

[jamtracy]

57 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

He is a member of Escapees with a valid SKP number.

That's why I threw up a number an question mark Kirk cause I knew you would research it.

[TXiceman]

8 hours ago, Kirk W said:

We have been campground hosts in TX as well as several other states. I never met the superintendent that you know. But it is true that the rangers can't be everywhere and it is also true that nobody can make everyone who visits happy. Most public parks have very few actual rules but plenty of people who want to make up new ones or just complain. 

Nope Kirk, but they let things like trashing a site and expecting the host to clean it up, parking on the grass, fires on open ground and not in a fire ring, too many people in a site, noise after quiet hours, tying out the dog and leaving it tied out etc, and turn a blind eye and let it ride.

Ken

[2gypsies]

7 minutes ago, TXiceman said:

Nope Kirk, but they let things like trashing a site and expecting the host to clean it up, parking on the grass, fires on open ground and not in a fire ring, too many people in a site, noise after quiet hours, tying out the dog and leaving it tied out etc, and turn a blind eye and let it ride.

Ken

The things you mention were what we, as volunteers, alerted the camper to correct.  If not done, we were asked by the manager when we first began to take the issues to him/her and it would be addressed.  The issue was always corrected.  I guess it depends on the park manager as to how he cares about the park.

[Darryl&Rita]

Seems to be a lot of supposition in this thread. The OP is railing against BLM/USFS users. A whole lot of land, and not much oversight. No park hosts, no managers onsite. Sometimes, you won't see another person in a week. Sometimes you can't get away from the sweaty throng. In that case, move. See trash, leave the site better than you found it. Live your life, because you can't educate pigs.

[Pappy Yokum]

18 hours ago, Pappy Yokum said:

One post wonder.......makes you wonder ??

I'll have to pass on your petition...😕

 

 

Well - - if Kirk says he's OK - he must be!!

But - It still makes *me* wonder (& still pass) .....*Why* I should add my name to a "petition" on his "say so"??......when I've *not* encountered the conditions described to any unusual or -Yikes!- "miserable" extent.

Good luck & carry on (in campgrounds) as best you can, onemanvan!

Edited August 27, 2021 by Pappy Yokum

[Kirk W]

59 minutes ago, Pappy Yokum said:

Well - - if Kirk says he's OK - he must be!!

Don't put words in my mouth (post). I did not say anything at all about the petition and I have neither looked at it nor checked it out in any way. All that I confirmed is that the person who posted is a current member of the Escapees RV Club. 

I have not looked at that petition and I have no plans to do so. But that is my practice and I nether endorse it nor do I downgrade it. 

[TXiceman]

5 hours ago, 2gypsies said:

The things you mention were what we, as volunteers, alerted the camper to correct.  If not done, we were asked by the manager when we first began to take the issues to him/her and it would be addressed.  The issue was always corrected.  I guess it depends on the park manager as to how he cares about the park.

The two parks we had bad experiences with, the superintendent did not want the host to say much more than hello to the campers.  We were to notify the office and they would decide if they wanted to talk with the camper.  Mostly, they did not as by the time they got around to it, the camper was not doing what ever they were doing.  Sure not a way to run a park.  Not a way to run a park.

Ken

[2gypsies]

6 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Seems to be a lot of supposition in this thread. The OP is railing against BLM/USFS users. A whole lot of land, and not much oversight. No park hosts, no managers onsite. Sometimes, you won't see another person in a week. Sometimes you can't get away from the sweaty throng. In that case, move. See trash, leave the site better than you found it. Live your life, because you can't educate pigs.

He mentions 'public campgrounds'; not open land.

[sandsys]

Our local state park got a new manager and all the volunteers quit. There had been a very active friends-of-the-park group under the manager who retired. Some people should not be left in charge.

Linda

[bruce t]

We are all living in a time of "self entitlement". We want the public lands to camp on but we also want to have it "our" way. There is no winning the debate simply because there will always be someone who thinks differently. Move on. Life's too short to keep banging your head against the wall.

 

 

[Jinx & Wayne]

17 hours ago, Kirk W said:

He is a member of Escapees with a valid SKP number.

And only this single post.

Wayne & Jinx
2017 F-350 diesel, dually
2006 Carriage Carri-Lite 36KSQ

[Kirk W]

This morning I have checked the petition and found the following:

The link is to a political action group, Move On dot org but as far as I am able to see there is no rule that forbids listing a link to a political action group and his subject isn't really that political, or at least not political party based. If you take the time to check out his petition, you will find that the link takes you to an exact copy of what he posted here and the author is John O., probably the author of this post. While there is no date listed on the petition, as of this morning it reports having 24 signatures. 

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Kirk W