Winter travels. Please use some sense

[Wrknrvr]

  Yesterday it was snowing just a little bit near Kalispell Montana.  Just enough that the road sorta was covered. But you could see the lines yet.

We needed to go to the post office that is about 1  1/2 miles away. We went the main road out on hay 93, which included a small easy hill to go over. Maybe a hundred feet high with grade  that allows 55 mph speed limit. So we went south and made the left turn towards the post office. So we had a food pickup in Kalispell so we headed back to Hwy 93 and went north.

  In the time that we were in the post office and went back over that hill a pickup headed south with a horse trailer apparently could not wait for the road conditions. The pickup was going up hill. At this point there is 4 lanes of Hwy. so he was headed south and a propane home delivery truck was going north.

  So the trailer tire marks in the snow were to the far right, at the white line going south bound. Pickup front was on the north bound side in the right lane. Truck apparently was in a jackknifing situation,      The propane truck driver pointed to the right just short of hitting the concrete barrier on the right side. But pickup tit the drivers side tire on propane truck. Propane truck hit the concrete on the right.

 

   There was no fire. Propane trucks diesel fuel tank at the drivers side was leaking fuel. When we got there there was one police officer there and another pulled in.

 

  This happened in about 9 minutes after we past the spot in the road, as we were wanting to get home because of the weather. Going north towards Kalispell the road conditions were much better. So pay attention to your driving.

[Kirk W]

You should see what happens here in Dallas/Ft Worth area if there is snow or ice on our roads! 

[Jaydrvr]

4 hours ago, Kirk W said:

You should see what happens here in Dallas/Ft Worth area if there is snow or ice on our roads! 

I learned that the hard way in Dec 2013.. Jay

[NDBirdman]

Living in the northern tier on military bases, you could always tell the newbies/southern boys/girls.  Just a tiny bit of snow/ice, you'd see them in the ditch along the hiway.

[bigjim]

Suuuuuure.  I am 73 1/2 and born in Alabama, raised in Dallas and east Texas.  All my life when you watch the news in the winter you see way more stories and video of yankees crashing into each other than southerners.  Mostly because they go to fast for conditions from my viewpoint.☺️

[sandsys]

Or rain. When we lived in Mineral Wells, Texas, we used to sit and watch drivers slide around on wet pavement--hydro planing.

Then there was the time we were in central Illinois after a huge snowstorm but the roads were pretty much clear. We wanted to go to church but my step-mother said no. She explained the driving lanes might be clear but the snowbanks would fill all the parking spots. OK. Knowledge about winter driving adjusted.

Linda

[Kirk W]

32 minutes ago, bigjim said:

All my life when you watch the news in the winter you see way more stories and video of yankees crashing into each other than southerners. 

I suspect the amount of snow and ice that takes place might play some small part in that. It has now been 10 years since Dallas last recorded 1" of snow accumulation, while the places that you see on the national news get that sort or weather several times a winter and most of them hardly notice a snow accumulation of 1" or less. In the 18 years that I traveled for work in WY, I experienced more bad roads in most any single winter than the total of it that I saw in my 11 years doing the same type work in the Dallas/Ft Worth area. It takes a lot more to cause major problems with traffic in Denver than it does in Dallas. 

[Barbaraok]

March, I think, 1978, it iced all over the south with a little snow.  DFW was the only airport open, but no one could get to or out of the airport, but they could land/take off because DFW had bought deicing equipment!

We were in Carrollton then, and daughter was a toddler.  Had a slight slope to the driveway, so Dave cut a big box into a slide.  3 days of "Slide daddy, slide" as we waited for them to open the roads.  He was so glad to get back to work and rest up.

Texans don't necessarily believe that tread is necessary on tires, and they tend to believe they can drive 70 mph on ice.  That fact that they consistently prove they can't doesn't seem to deter them.

[Jim & Alice]

Years ago in the 70's, as a young Yankee newly in Shreveport, Louisiana, I got pulled over one morning on 4-lane 70th Street, after a 2" snowfall.   Road surface was slushy, but temps were above 32... no problem.   Shreveport Policeman said, "speeding too fast for conditions" and wrote me out a ticket.  (I was doing the speed limit)  Politely I said, "But officer, I am from Michigan, and this is not much snow at all".   He gave me a hard look... and said: "Improper lane change!"... and wrote me out a 2nd ticket.  No dummy here, I shut up.   (I did appeal both tickets and got them dropped.)    Been careful ever since, tho, when I am in the ArkLaTex and a snow flake falls!

Edited January 17, 2021 by Jim & Alice

[fly2low]

I grew up in northern WI, rural setting.  Had years of practice driving on packed snow/ice. I spent a year in Texas in the 70's.  Remember watching cars sliding through a stop light as I was eating at a Denny's.  The locals thought once they got going their problems were over.  Then I spent 15 years in AR.  Snow was a problem for the locals, but nothing like the ice storms that we had.  The past 15 years have been in the Seattle area.  For a city close to the mountains and snow, you would think these locals would have an idea how to handle it - they don't.  One night coming home from work, I had maneuver around cars that had been abandoned in the middle of the freeway.  There was maybe 4 inches of snow 

Edited January 17, 2021 by fly2low

[bigjim]

To be somewhat fair I don't think it was bad in DFW in years past. (Many years) but the way traffic is now and the volume of drivers there now I don't think it that good on a perfectly clear weather day now.

[Jinx & Wayne]

13 hours ago, NDBirdman said:

Living in the northern tier on military bases, you could always tell the newbies/southern boys/girls.  Just a tiny bit of snow/ice, you'd see them in the ditch along the hiway.

Hahahaha.  I can see the first snow at Ft. Devens, 1969.  My friend from Alabama had a brand new Chevelle SS 396.  His answer to a lack of traction was more gas.  He managed to slide sideways into two parked cars.  The damage was minimal because he didn't have much forward motion, but he was certainly embarrassed.

Oh yes.  Remember that 4WD may make you go better, but it does nothing for stopping.

[Chalkie]

Having lived in Colorado for 30 years I can tell you that people that should know how to drive in snow don't always, especially when it first starts coming down. It's like they have to be retrained each and every time. 

The funniest experience with bad road conditions was in Lubbock, Tx though. Snow and ice aren't all that uncommon in the Texas Panhandle. We were heading to Austin in early February for a birthday party and spent the night in Lubbock. Next morning we got up to a heavy coating of ice on the truck. Since we were without the RV we decided to forge ahead. The truck had 4WD and the big rigs were moving, so I tucked in behind one that was moving cautiously and gave myself a good following distance. We came around a curve in the road and could see red and blue flashing lights up ahead. We slowed even more and as we got to where we could see, there were THREE cop cars all spun off the road. We drove on by without offering to help figuring that they could call for their own rescue and might be a little embarrassed. 

[Barbaraok]

We lived in Michigan for 13 years.  Every year, the first snow would see wrecks all over as they all acted like they had never driven on snow/ice before.  Slow and steady, keep foot OF the brake, had to be relearned every year.    

People in Seattle usually don't see enough snow to bother learning how to drive in it.   One person may be the designated driver for going skiing, but otherwise it is 45° and raining for much of the winter.  But when it does freeze, the hills Seattle is built on turn into slides.  

I loved living in Ft. Collins, CO where you never worried about driving, traction in powdered snow is fine, but lack of humanity meant lousy snowballs.  But little dirt/sand at heavily traveled intersections/railroad crossings and wait a day for the snow to sublimate into the air and the roads were clear.  

We were in the Phoenix area when temperatures were into the mid 20s for a couple of morning.  Local weatherman was asked why there was no frost on cars - he had to explain that unlike most of the country, there wasn't enough moisture in the air for frost to form.  I do love being in the desert in the winter and relying on solar snow removal after all of the years in Ohio and Michigan (18 total) with snow up to our knees and cat liter and window scrapers as fixtures in the car.  

[TXiceman]

We lived in Toronto, Canada for a spell and saw the same thing.  First snow storm of the year and it was like they had never seen snow.  Wrecks all over the city.

If you really want to see nuts on the roads, try Houston, TX.  The news mentions two snow flakes and the whole city goes nuts.  But you cannot expect any better, every time it rains, these smae folks drive like they have lived in the desert forever.

Ken

[Kirk W]

Having spent at least 1 winter in 10 states in very different areas, it is interesting to me to follow discussions of this sort. I think that a major contributor to the weather related traffic issues is the way that we move about the country today. At rush hour in any major city, there is bound to be at least a few drivers sprinkled about who have never experienced the kind of bad weather happening in the area where they now are. Lack of familiarity is usually a major contributor. We moved from Denver to Cheyenne and quickly noticed that it took far worse conditions to cause travel problems in WY than it does in CO, but eventually we realized that the number of vehicles on the roads was much of the difference in travel conditions. Another factor is that the same weather in Cheyenne when compared to Dallas doesn't always mean the same road conditions. In Cheyenne when roads are icy it means that the surface is solid ice with extreme cold while in Dallas it rarely gets cold enough to freeze solid so the icy roads all have a film of water over the ice which is far more slippery than ice alone. In addition, pretty much every driver in Cheyenne has frequent winter weather conditions to practice driving in, while in Dallas it can go several years without any snow or ice at all. In my 18 winters of WY driving between 30k & 40k miles per year, I had a lot of experience driving in most winter road conditions, but even that did not fully prepare me for what happens in Dallas if freezing rain coats the streets and highways. 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Kirk W
edit wording

[bigjim]

3 hours ago, Chalkie said:

I can tell you that people that should know how to drive in snow don't always, especially when it first starts coming down. It's like they have to be retrained each and every ti

You're singing to the choir my friend. Txiceman, and the driving like they have only driven in the desert in rain, too.

Edited January 17, 2021 by bigjim
seriously bad spelling

[bigjim]

We moved to Dallas from Tuscaloosa, Al. in 1953. I could be wrong but it seems to me we had more snow and lesser ice events in the late 50's through the 60's. That being said admittedly they were pretty short and not real bad but if it was close to risky at all my Tuscaloosa dad had us out there putting on chains. I always hated it as due to an orthopedic problem he could not do most of it and could only mostly stand and direct. It seemed to take forever and I would be freezing to death. (of course later all of us kids could stay out for hours building snowmen and having snowball fights.) Anything I didn't like according to my dad would only take 5 min. if I would just get out there and get started, like weeding the garden. ( darned dad, wish he was still around for me to gripe about.)

[Barbaraok]

General warming of the oceans, along with ice cap melts at both poles, result in more moisture in the air, including more coming off of the gulf to interact with cold fronts plunging from the Arctic.  Wetter lower layers of the atmosphere results in more ice storms.   All sort of storms increase because of increased energy stored in the warming oceans.

[sandsys]

3 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Wetter lower layers of the atmosphere results in more ice storms.

Ice storms are beautiful if you can cope with the side effects. I was sure glad my family had camping gear when we had one in central Illinois as we all slept in the living room since the furnace blower didn't work without electricity so my Dad closed off as many rooms as he could. 

Linda

[Jinx & Wayne]

In defense of the folks in th4 south who see snow and ice occasionally, they don't have the tires for it most of the time.  There is nothing quite like good studded tires or studless ice tires to help tame slippery driving.

Wayne & Jinx (formerly living in Maine)
2017 F-350 diesel, dually
2006 Carriage Carri-Lite 36KSQ

 

[sheldons65]

I've lived in the DFW area for a long time as well. I'm always surprised at the lifted/modified 4WDs buzzing along in the fast lane. Sometimes you see them up ahead unintentionally off-roading into the ditch, median or worse. 

[Barbaraok]

4W slide on ice really well😎