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Wrknrvr

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  Something interesting to read about. If you go to Wikipedia and search for Antimicrobial properties of copper.

 

after you read and think about this?     When did viruses really start to affect the humans.

 

  I could not copy and paste it. Hopefully some else can.

   Stay safe today,     Vern

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I don't quite understand reasoning behind your question. 

Quote

Ancient civilizations exploited the antimicrobial properties of copper long before the concept of microbes became understood in the nineteenth century.[1][2][3] In addition to several copper medicinal preparations, it was also observed centuries ago that water contained in copper vessels or transported in copper conveyance systems was of better quality (i.e., no or little visible slime or biofouling formation) than water contained or transported in other materials.

My guess, and I think it is a good one, to the question you posed is for as long as humans have been humans.

 

Edited by Chalkie

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   I want you to think about when modern use of copper disappeared from our society.  Sorry not to give you my thinking yet. But I will in time. 

  Go back to Wikipedia and read about copper and think about its use in our modern times.

 

  It would help if ever did any plumbing.

 

  Just a clue for u.

 

 

    Vern  

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 Copper plumbing has been around for a long, long time since Ancient Egypt. It gained real popularity post-WWII in the 1950s (in the US at least) through about 2000 or so. Since then PEX is taking over. But if you are somehow trying to tie our use or non-use of copper to something specific I am still not seeing it. 

PEX and copper both have their issues in terms of whether or not they are healthy. PEX has the issues that most plastics do with VOCs, etc. and copper can cause sickness if too much leaches into the water, something the EPA actually regulates since it is not just the piping but brass (which is a copper/zinc alloy) fixtures and fittings. I learned something a number of years ago when I was a manager at a hardware/lumber store. Why do we add fluoride to water? It isn't just for tooth decay, it also has a side benefit of being a corrosion inhibitor which helps to prevent copper leaching.  

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  I was a well driller since 1977 until 2005 or so. So with being in new homes to install water systems I got to watch new types of plumbing inventions be used.  

 

  Also did a lot of wells at old homes. Older homes previously to say 1970 had copper plumbing in them. Not 100 percent, most were copper.

  But there was that debate over witch is better,   Copper or plastic.  Over time copper could have joints or pit holes form leaks. Plastic seamed like the way to go. Of course we did not have time tested plastic to see how it performed. Our first house restoration in 1981 I did copper. Just sorta old fashioned.

  The last building we did I uased plastic as there were 8 bathrooms in the bed and breakfast inn we restored.

 

  I am not a scientist.   But with the internet there is many research scientists that have done studies on bacteria and viruses.

 

   Just my thoughts here.

 

  There are viruses that we live with that has been around possible centuries. But if your look at when certain viruses that really are problems to the human race. That have appeared since humans have used plastic instead of copper plumbing (copper has been known for centuries to keep water better than other storage containers).

  HIV showed up about 1980. Not sure of that date. Then Ebola, Sars and I think it is Mers.

 

   There is research done previously to covid that shows viruses do not live long on copper. Some have been done on hospital door handles and push plates on doors and viruses do not live but a short time on them.

 

  That is a lot of info to understand. But if you search the net it is there.  Just thinking .

 

  I have lots of other thing to do today now that it is daylight out.   But do some searching. It is interesting.

 

  Stay Safe,     Vern

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Before copper, water lines were of iron and many homes still are. Copper has advantages over iron, but it also costs more. PEX has advantages over both and is far less costly to use, especially if you include the construction costs. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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7 minutes ago, hemsteadc said:

I've seen TV ads for pain wraps containing copper, as some people believe that.  I myself do not.

So , you don't think there's any action , chemical or otherwise , between what gets put on the body and the body itself ?

Goes around , comes around .

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13 minutes ago, Pat & Pete said:

So , you don't think there's any action , chemical or otherwise , between what gets put on the body and the body itself ?

Not with solid objects, no.  There is no medical or scientific evidence copper has any effect on pain or arthritis. But there's always the placebo effect.

Edited by hemsteadc
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On 8/14/2020 at 5:02 AM, Chalkie said:

I don't quite understand reasoning behind your question. 

My guess, and I think it is a good one, to the question you posed is for as long as humans have been humans.

 

Actually before we branched off of the Great Ape limb - - a LOT of the virus we get are found in the wild in primates.  In fact, testing on primates use to be a staple of any drug to see how we would probably react.  Anything more than a miniscle amount of copper is HARMFUL TO THE BODY.  Loads of people are poisoned by copper toxicity every year from water that is too 'aggressive' (low pH, etc.) and just like Lead is tested in drinking water fountains, etc., SO IS COPPER.   In fact the law for testing of lead is called the Lead and Copper standard!  It is 1.3 mg/liter for copper.

And ANY effect from externally placed copper on the body is due to the mind of the person wearing the device.  Your mind can play tricks on you.

Yes, copper is a bacteriacide.  Also used to kill weeds in lakes which leads to fish dying, etc.  

I never cease to be amazed at the lack of basic scientific literacy  that we tolerate in the USA.

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

I never cease to be amazed at the lack of basic scientific literacy  that we tolerate in the USA.

Not just that, common sense.  I hear these ads all the time.. Florida real estate, boost your credit score, get out of IRS debt, home title lock, testosterone boosters... the list is long.  These ads work or they wouldn't be on the air.

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I built my house in 1969, I put in all copper plumbing. In 2004 I had the kitchen and baths remodeled. I had to teach the plumber how to solder copper plumbing together. Actually I wound up doing most all the copper plumbing while he watched, he never did get the skill of soldering copper.

Ever see a roof with a strip of copper along the ridge pole? When you see one, note the lack of mold growing on the shingles, most often there are brighter streaks where rain runs down the roof more(low places), darker places(mold) get less runoff from the copper strip.

I remember when I was little, someone told me to put a copper penny in my shoe for good luck; all I got was a sore foot.

The problem with Wikipedia is, folks like us can write-and edit the articles; as Barb and Dave pointed out.

Edited by Ray,IN

 

2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country.  John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961

 

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23 hours ago, Wrknrvr said:

   There are viruses that we live with that has been around possible centuries. But if your look at when certain viruses that really are problems to the human race. That have appeared since humans have used plastic instead of copper plumbing (copper has been known for centuries to keep water better than other storage containers).

  HIV showed up about 1980. Not sure of that date. Then Ebola, Sars and I think it is Mers.

I really think you are stretching your premise as there were a number of viral and bacterial pandemics in human history long before we started using plastic for plumbing. 

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Vern,

Just because it is on the net doesn't mean it is true.   

Viruses are fragments of genetic material that need a host to replicate.   

Copper, like most metals,  has long been known to be an effective disinfectant.   If the cells die, any virus in them 'dies'.  Viruses are not alive in the sense that they can not replicate themselves.  Some have the ability to remain 'infectious' for days or weeks as long as nothing upsets their protective outer coat.   Copper solutions will affect that coat.  As will other metals and bleach and alcohol and soap, etc.   

The key to remember is that copper, which an essential micronutrient in the cells, is toxic when in larger quantities.   Copper solutions have been used for centuries as helping to cure diseases, but often the treatment resulted in toxicity to the patient and sometimes even death.   

If you want to blame someone for the increase in emerging exotic viruses (and other pathogens) blame the Wright Brothers.  Without air travel, most of these infections would die out when the local hosts had all died instead of being carried in under 24 hours all over the world!

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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Vern, 

Does it say in there to ingest quantities of copper solutions?   I told you that copper is effective against all sorts of pathogens and can be used to deactivate the viruses.  And the copper surface will continue to do that until it is completely oxidized and has it's covering of green patina.  So will iron surfaces - it is called rusting, and is an oxidation-reduction process that will deactivate viruses like bleach, alcohol, soap does.  Did you not read what I wrote?    

But, to have the reaction going on INSIDE the body would lead to toxicity to humans and cause all sorts of problems including death.  That's why there is a limit on the amount of copper is that allowed to be leached into the water at drinking fountains, etc.    If you can look at your plumbing and see a long stretch of green copper tubing, you are poisoning your household and need to find out what is wrong with your water supply that it is so aggressive.  We had a well in Ohio that had a pH of 2.0 (very acidic) - - we had to have a neutralization tank before the tank to removal iron and then the softener to polish the water.   Our "free water" cost a fortune.   The whole area had a reputation for having problems with wells and people would routinely loose pumps that were attached to rigid copper piping.  

 

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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22 hours ago, hemsteadc said:

Not just that, common sense.  I hear these ads all the time.. Florida real estate, boost your credit score, get out of IRS debt, home title lock, testosterone boosters... the list is long.  These ads work or they wouldn't be on the air.

The ads may work but the products usually don't.

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Yes, copper plating for hospital door handles shows that bacteria and viruses don't survive on it like they do on stainless steel.   I'm trying to figure out where you are going with this?  

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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From Science Alert:

Quote

What Is a Virus?

A virus is genetic material contained within an organic particle that invades living cells and uses their host's metabolic processes to produce a new generation of viral particles. 

The way they do this varies. Some insert their genetic material into the host's DNA, where it can sit in wait until it's translated at a later date. As the host cell replicates itself, it can make new viruses.

Viruses can also burst their host cell as they expand in numbers, in what's called a lytic cycle of reproduction.

 

 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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