Tow vehicle.. If you had it to do over...

[Jay3849]

At the risk of beating a well-covered topic up and possibly starting a Brand Loyalty War, I have a question for those who have sat many an hour around a campfire observing trucks being forced to do their maximum capacity on a full-time basis.

Directed at those mainly pulling travel trailers, or much observing those who do, with these machines.

In my experience, the opinions of these observers will save me more time and money than a thousand online reviews from sources I suspect do not have my best interest in mind, as I know the good people here most certainly do. It's a wonderful, knowledgeable and friendly group.

I'm soon going to go ahead and pull the trigger on a tow vehicle, and I am a little hesitant about the choice in engine....

I have a chance at a 2018 F-250 Super Duty XL Crew Cab 4wd with a V8 Biodiesel engine.... I'm partial to diesel engines from my time in a big truck on the road, and I've heard few negatives about Ford's entry with this engine. I could pull the same flatbed, with a 32' travel trailer on the bed, in theory, at least a short way so whatever I grow into, at least below the 10,000 lb mark, I can drag around with this truck, without much issue. This one has 20,000 miles and with cash I was assured I could drive away for under 32k.

But then.... there is the 2018 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD LT Crew Cab 4WD with the same mileage, the Duramax engine, and overall, considerably more fancy (not that I care much about bells and whistles) for 5k or so more.

Price really isn't the issue here; I have to have a reliable vehicle with a bed and considerable towing capacity regardless of going out full time with an RV or not, and I can't afford not to go reliable with my primary vehicle, no matter if I spend 10k or 100k on a home to drag around.

Likely, at this level I probably won't go wrong with either. But those of you who have seen these machines punished to extraordinary degrees, probably have an opinion of what you would buy if someone handed you 40k and said, "Go. Get the vehicle that you'd drive into Armaggedon"... Lol. Great trucks, both, but one emerges with a slight advantage under this gruesome application, surely.

I think I just value the opinions of the main contributors here more than anything; I read for hours and have learned so much, it's leaking from my ears.

I will also listen to enthusiastic gasoline arguments, though it's hard to convince me that a diesel engine is a mistake, in any situation with much towing of heavy things.

Thanks... Be nice please; Chevrolet and Ford both, we can all be proud of in the United States.

I really do need the ability to tow a great amount of weight, at least short distances, no matter what, though. This size truck and the horsepower generated is not something I could go much lower on, really. But note: while I may buy a dually and a 5th wheel camper after my initial 3-5 years on the road, learning, I really can't justify 4 tires on my rear axle just yet. Travel trailer it is until then.

Fire away, if you will.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Jay3849

[Kirk W]

Just to make it more interesting, I am in the Dodge/Cummins truck fan club! That said, I have known many satisfied RVers who towed for years with trucks from Ford & GM without problem. I agree with your plan to select a diesel truck because they are more fuel efficient with heavy loads and are much longer lived than gasoline. We have close friends who are towing with a 2018 F350 and they give it very high marks. 

To compare gasoline to diesel, I can give you some experience data that may  help. We travel now with a 20' travel trailer that weighs about 4000# when traveling. We started that towing with an SUV that was V6, gasoline powered and after a couple of years we changed to a Dodge, 2500 diesel, crewcab. With nothing being towed, the SUV would get about 22 mpg and the diesel made about 19 mpg. While towing, the SUV got 9 to 11 mpg and the truck 14 - 15 mpg. 

[Jay3849]

9 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

Just to make it more interesting, I am in the Dodge/Cummins truck fan club! That said, I have known many satisfied RVers who towed for years with trucks from Ford & GM without problem. I agree with your plan to select a diesel truck because they are more fuel efficient with heavy loads and are much longer lived than gasoline. We have close friends who are towing with a 2018 F350 and they give it very high marks. 

To compare gasoline to diesel, I can give you some experience data that may  help. We travel now with a 20' travel trailer that weighs about 4000# when traveling. We started that towing with an SUV that was V6, gasoline powered and after a couple of years we changed to a Dodge, 2500 diesel, crewcab. With nothing being towed, the SUV would get about 22 mpg and the diesel made about 19 mpg. While towing, the SUV got 9 to 11 mpg and the truck 14 - 15 mpg. 

Oy.

I have a big V6 vortec in my Trailblazer but suspected I'd kill it quick with 5000 lbs behind it. The gas mileage is telling.

I love Dodge. Had several, and my father was a Dodge man. My apologies... Let's throw that in as well, they have several on the lot.

[Second Chance]

Started out with a Sierra 2500HD with the Durmax and Allison... loved it. Moved to an F350 with the PowerStroke (to get a 1-ton with dual rear wheels)... love it. Brother-in-law has a brand new RAM 3500 DRW with the Cummins and Aisin... loves it. Bottom line, if you stick with the later model trucks, they're all great for towing RVs. The only thing I would say - and this is just my opinion - a 3/4-ton truck with a diesel drivetrain is a cripple due to the low payload. I owned one. Go for at least a single rear wheel 1-ton whichever brand you get. Maintain it well, put clean fuel in it and change the fuel filters religiously, and you will be happy for decades.

Rob

[sandsys]

And remember that stopping power can be more critical than starting power in an emergency. Never buy more trailer than your truck can safely stop.

Linda Sand

[Jay3849]

59 minutes ago, Second Chance said:

Started out with a Sierra 2500HD with the Durmax and Allison... loved it. Moved to an F350 with the PowerStroke (to get a 1-ton with dual rear wheels)... love it. Brother-in-law has a brand new RAM 3500 DRW with the Cummins and Aisin... loves it. Bottom line, if you stick with the later model trucks, they're all great for towing RVs. The only thing I would say - and this is just my opinion - a 3/4-ton truck with a diesel drivetrain is a cripple due to the low payload. I owned one. Go for at least a single rear wheel 1-ton whichever brand you get. Maintain it well, put clean fuel in it and change the fuel filters religiously, and you will be happy for decades.

Rob

Go 1 ton with the diesel?

In that case.. Money is an object. Twice as much

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Jay3849

[Jay3849]

34 minutes ago, sandsys said:

And remember that stopping power can be more critical than starting power in an emergency. Never buy more trailer than your truck can safely stop.

Linda Sand

A brake package and pulling 10,000 would be ok?

 

Oh yes... Nice Toy lol

Edited April 14, 2020 by Jay3849

[Jay3849]

Maybe I just should have said, Chevy 2500 vs f-250 diesel.... which is most reliable most iyho.

[duraduk]

I current tow with a Ram 3500 SRW Diesel and while I was looking at trucks back in 2012 I felt based upon my research all 3 brands would do the job.  What came down to my decision to buy the Ram was the personal conveniences the truck provides, ie; seat comfort, folding flat back seat (for dogs) and so on.  I bought a Ram mega cab for those reasons.  I would take a hard look at all 3 and decide which one fits you.  Mine is a pre def truck and the mileage as it compares to trucks equipped with def. is low. I could delete but don't want to deal with the hassle.  I only use the truck when I tow (12,000 lb trailer) and only drive 10-15000 miles per year so I tolerate the mileage. I had a 2003 Chev. Duramax and it ate injectors on a regular basis so all brands can have problems.  I hear they have fixed that issue.

  Happy Hunting!

Edited April 14, 2020 by duraduk

[Second Chance]

9 hours ago, Jay3849 said:

Go 1 ton with the diesel?

In that case.. Money is an object. Twice as much

 

Yes. And no on the money - usually only a few hundred more (between 3/4 and 1-ton with the same engine). 

Rob

[geodog]

For your intended usage I would make my final decision based upon RIDE COMFORT.

There are noticeable differences, in my opinion, between the  brands and 3/4 ton vs 1 ton.

 

JMHO

 

ShortyO

[fpmtngal]

Since you are looking at specific trucks, the first thing I would do is look at the stickers on the door panels to see what the cargo capacity is of each truck.

You mentioned that one of them has more bells and whistles - those things will weigh more and cut into the vehicle’s cargo capacity, sometimes significantly.  Are they both 4x4 or 2WD?  4WD gives you added capability that you might or might not need but will cut down on your cargo capacity.

I’m full-timing in a small travel trailer (21’ overall, GVWR for the trailer is 5500 lbs, 750 lb tongue weight and use an Anderson WDH, the lightest one around).  I tow with an F150 and the trailer is easily under it’s tow rating.  Weighed together the rig is well under the truck’s combined weight rating, I could get a bigger trailer and still be under the truck’s GCWR.

Sounds perfect, right?  The trailer tows very nicely behind the truck.  

Only the trailer is right at it’s 5500 lb GVWR with an almost full fresh water tank and the truck is right at it’s GVWR when hitched up to that trailer (I have a lot of stuff).  I would like to move some weight from the trailer into the truck so I’m not pushing the limits with a full fresh water tank (I travel often with a full tank) but can’t without going over the truck’s GVWR.

I’m now thinking about buying a 3/4 or 1 ton truck.  

[agesilaus]

WE have a 2012 F350 6.7L SRW 4WD. My first diesel and my first 4WD. I have a good F150 5.4L before. Now when we bought the F350 we were planning on pulling a fiver, which we did, a 35 ft fifth wheel. All over the mountain west and the rest of the country. Our kids visited all of the lower 48, Mexico and Canada. Never had a major issue with the truck.

The kids are out of the house, and we moved down to a heavy 30 ft Arctic Fox TT. Needless to say the F350 drags it over mountains just fine. Would I trade down to a gasser, not a chance. Would I buy a different brand? I would look at RAMs but I'm not sure if I would end up with one rather than a Ford. I cannot complain about the Ford truck I have but model years have rolled by and I'd look at both.

I am absolutely against GM (aka Government Motors) for their behavior during their bail out. And their trucks just don't stand out from the pack IMO.

 

[GlennWest]

Get a retired semi and all is covered. My choice

[Jay3849]

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=534029205&zip=40601&startYear=2016&numRecords=25&vehicleStyleCodes=TRUCKS&endYear=2019&modelCodeList=CHEVC25&makeCodeList=CHEV&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D40601%26fuelTypeGroup%3DGSL%2CDSL%2CHYB%26city%3DFrankfort%26startYear%3D2016%26maxMileage%3D100000%26vehicleStyleCodes%3DTRUCKS%26incremental%3Dall%26endYear%3D2019%26modelCodeList%3DCHEVC25%26makeCodeList%3DCHEV%26driveGroup%3DAWD4WD%26transmissionCodes%3DAUT%2CMAN%26listingTypes%3DCERTIFIED%2CUSED%26minPrice%3D6000%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceDESC%26maxPrice%3D35000%26state%3DKY%26engineCodes%3D8CLDR%2C10CLDR%2C12CLDR%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26searchRadius%3D0%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse&listingTypes=CERTIFIED%2CUSED&minPrice=6000&maxPrice=35000&firstRecord=0&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=CHEV&modelCode1=CHEVC25&clickType=otherVDP

 

I tried to make a link from it, sorry. It would not cooperate.

In any case... That is a beautiful thing.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Jay3849

[Kirk W]

If you go to the bottom, right corner of the post window, there is a tab labeled "insert other media" that when clicked on allows you to insert the address of a picture. 

Northern Motors must be your local dealer? Are you shopping new now?

[D&J]

Don't go with a 1/2  ton truck you won't be happy in the long run. I'm pulling a 16K 5th wheel with a gas F350 Ford 6.2 with 4.30 gears and 6 speed transmission, if I was buying a new one it would be a gas F350 with Fords new 7.3 gas motor with 4.30 gears and the 10 speed transmission. You want the heavier truck for instability and increased braking power.

Denny 

[remoandiris]

I have an enmity to all things Chrysler, so Ram is out.  Every Chrysler product my father owned when I was growing up was a POS.  I won't even give one a test drive.

I'm a Ford guy.  In 2011 when I was shopping, I loved the F350 King Ranch, but did not like the metal pan bolted to the rear seat floor for the lockable storage.  There was no option to get rid of that metal pan.

Bought a GMC 3500HD Denali.  Top of the line trim is nowhere close to the King Ranch,  but the tried and true Duramax and Allison have been flawless except for glow plugs failing.  Pulling a heavy 5er thru the mountain west has never been a problem. 

The next time I go shopping I will relook the King Ranch.  IMO, nothing else comes close to that gorgeous interior. 

The new Duramax and 10-speed Allison look really sweet.  Not sure I'd spend the money on the Denali trim again.

I seriously considered a retired semi.  But, based on the limitations of a daily driver as well as insurance coverage issues (not covered as a grocery getter, etc., depending on your state and insurance company), the semi just would not work for me.

[GlennWest]

Actually a 430 flat top singled would work as a daily driver. It would go anywhere a long bed dually would and manuver better. 

[rickeieio]

So, as you can see, there is no "One size fits all."  Everyone has a different bias, and comfort zone.  In our case, we chose to buy a retired road tractor to pull a fifth wheel, and downsize the daily driver from a F-350 to a F-150.  I'm happy with that move.  The additional license and insurance is roughly a wash compared to the daily fuel economy and comfort of the "little truck."

But, the original question was about a mid sized truck, and gas v. diesel.  The new trucks are very capable, on paper. Keep in mind, things can, and do, go wrong.  When a brake controller fails or the electrical cable to the trailer comes undone, will the truck control the camper?  I've had both those things happen.  As to the fuel choice, look at the numbers.  When I had heavy pick-ups, I used V-10s, (four of them) and loved them.  Sure, fuel economy was less, but not enough to offset the additional upcharge.  But my driving was mostly empty, and only about 17k miles/yr.  YMMV.

BTW, we now pull with a Volvo 770, 27' long with no trailer.  It turns in a smaller circle than the F-350s we had.  It's been through many national parks and other destinations.  But, it's not for everyone.

[Jay3849]

Was out all day looking. 
 

the Duramax & 10 speed Allison is calling to me. 
However.. No Denali for me. Reminds me of my x... Beautiful but Ridiculous. 
 

I the end... F350 will likely be what I drive away in, no newer than 2018 and no more than 50k miles. 

[whj469]

For me there was not really a choice, no Ram's because the 2500 and 3500 are made in Mexico by a foreign auto maker, when I was looking the Chev/GMC was way over priced and when I asked are you competing with Ford I was told that this was a good price, both in 2011 and 2019, The F350, CC, diesel, longbed, SRW, 4X4, was my choice by far. Good Luck

[Jay3849]

Information overload. But much appreciated.

Being a former big truck man I'd love to have a retired semi but I can't afford more than 1 vehicle, and I don't see even a 430 flat top being practical for me.

Here's the thing; I may use this vehicle to make some money with, possibly with a nice hefty flatbed capable of car hauling, etc, with which to offer nationwide services of hauling duties to, say, fellow RVers who'd like a break on the high deliver costs and general hauling of stuffs they may not be able to handle; maybe delivery of RVs, in some situations. I do have my class A and there not much I cannot legally haul, nor am I tied down to anything, while I drift about deciding on my future. I would of course be licensed and insured. One can sit around a truck stop and watch the board, and pick up jobs, with this set-up, if necessary. Done it before.

With this in mind, I'm leaning towards a 1 ton, likely a Ford, though Dodge is not out of the question. As much power as will fit under the hood.

I'd rather not have a dually but for the application I just described.... It's likely the only choice. I need to have no question about towing 20,000+ lbs with relative ease. A 5th wheel package installed, of course.

New is just too much; 70k will nearly wipe out any security I have, and I'd be nervous without 30k or so in the bank earning interest, however little. A 2018 as I described can be had for 40k, or less, all day long with 50,000 miles or less, which I consider nicely broke-in on a hefty diesel engine. An additional 5k should outfit this endeavour just fine; and 15k for a small 5th wheel camper or travel trailer to rest my weary bones while I decide on a permanent solution will not break me.

I have no need for Denali-type luxury. Give me a Jungle Bag and a backpack and I'm good, for a bit, while making a decision on an RV....... I am the very definition of Free.

Just a note: I doubt my permanent solution will be anything less than a slightly used Arctic Fox. But that will be a few years and many camp fire chats down the road, I think.

Thoughts on this conclusion? 1 ton, diesel-powered beast of the Ford or Dodge flavor? I see your comments; I think I'm looking for encouragement lol.

Oh...Yeah.. I can work on 'em. I drove a big truck 2000 miles once with a scrap 2x4 and duct tape holding a good portion of the engine in place lol.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Jay3849

[Jay3849]

Such as...

 

Kinda Purdy...

Edited April 17, 2020 by Jay3849

[GlennWest]

seems your mind makde up. Just a note here. I hated driving my dually for a daily commute. Large turning radius. Like my current setup.