HDT comfort vs pickup

[DavidP]

Considering an HDT. A little background… We are full time moving about 4 – 6 hours every 1-3 weeks as we travel across the country. We have a 38’ 5^th wheel with a GVWR of 16,500. Loaded it is about 16K with a pin weight of 4,000 lbs. We have a 2022 F350 dually.

Considering an HDT for all the safety reasons, although the F350 is well within its limits. No plan to upgrade to a larger 5^th wheel. But… I have lower back issues. After 3-4 hours in the F350 it is very painful. Seeing many comments about the HDT being much more comfortable than our F350. That along with all the other benefits of an HDT has us considering it.

An HDT would be our daily driver. A short mid roof HDT 2’ – 3’ longer than the pickup would seem like a good fit for us.

Are the short wheelbase HDT’s still more comfortable than the pickup?   

Is the difference in ride comfort in an HDT that much better than an F350?

Edited November 28, 2023 by DavidP

[lappir]

From someone who has had both. Started with a 1999 F250 Crew Cab DRW with an 8 foot bed and the 7.3 Powerstroke. It pulled real good, stopped OK, but the Auto Transmission in that year was it's weak point. It failed on me with my first trip.  You haven't had an issue it seems so far. 

I looked for an MDT at first but they were way out of my price range. Happened to find this site and the HDT section and attended my first National Rally  in 2010 I think. If you are not in a hurry to make the jump and want some real information, the ability to sit in, touch things and maybe drive one then attend either the Spring East Coast Rally, the National Rally or the West Coast Rally. (I think I have them in the order with the soonest one first.)

Many have used the truck as a daily driver. I don't. The only time I start it is when it's time to move to the next place. It takes WAY TOO MUCH TIME for it to really warm up to operating temperature. 

It was way hard for me to not knock on the door of  my neighbors Class A Gas rig this morning when she started it up again to run for 20 minutes and then shut it off. I have thought it was her over the past month she has been here, but today I was outside when it started and saw the moisture dripping out of the tail pipe. (Which it was still dripping when she shut it off.

If you actually do move 3 to 4 hours every few weeks, most likely you will be  OK with using the truck for errands. If you can get the drive line warmed up too with those drives that would be a bonus. 

So in closing, yes you will be more comfortable on long drives in the air ride seat. Having a short wheel base will give a harsher ride at times, but those large wheels and tires do make a difference in crossing all but the widest cracks in the pavement. If you go with a Volvo the turning radius will most likely be as short or shorter than your LGT. (Little Girly Truck)

This is my opinion, others will offer theirs too I hope. 

 

Rod

[DavidP]

Rod,

Great point on the short trips. To some degree it is an issue with our F350 6.7. 

About how long does it take to warm up if you are not towing? Our F350 seems to get up to operating temps in 15 - 30 mins. Would a block heater help with how long it takes to warm up?

My LGT sucks turning - lol. Takes 2 1/2+ lanes for a u-turn.  

Thank you, this is exactly the feedback I was looking for. 

[rickeieio]

The hdt can work for a daily driver, if you don't do it much.  Short, frequent trips are hard on any vehicle, and the bigger that vehicle, the worse it is.  Never getting it fully warmed up, (idling doesn't count) puts condensation in the various drive components.  Climbing in and out of a taller truck on short hops is a pain.

So, as a long time hdt owner ( 12 years ), I say it isn't for everyone.  The additional comfort on moving day may not be worth the inconvenience the rest of the time.

EDIT:  If you were pulling a larger trailer, or intended to do so in the future, that might tip the scales toward an hdt.  But 16,5k isn't so bad behind your current truck  Bump that up to Hatrack's 24k trailer and everything changes.

And then there's the issue of licensing.  Where do you domicile?  How does that state handle whether an hdt can be a private truck v motorhome v commercial?  

Edited November 28, 2023 by rickeieio

[hatrack]

I've had my HDT for 4 1/2 years move up from a GMC 3500 DRW and never want to go back to pulling a bigger trailer with a 3500.

I use my HDT as a daily driver put 86,000 on it so far. Our HDT is a Volvo VNR 640 mid roof that is @ 23' long, just 3' longer than the dually was. The HDT rides a little stiffer then the dually as a daily driver but with the trailer hooked on it is so much beter then the dually. The trailer hardly move the truck on bridges and bad roads where the dually would bounce all over the place.

We fulltime with the Volvo and DRV Fullhouse.

Ken....

[Randyretired]

Different opinions on this and I will add mine.  I hate driving my HDT as a daily driver.   Waiting for it to build air for a short drive seems like a waste.  I also don't like to drive that big of a vehicle in traffic and parking it.  Our HDT  is comfortable but the new pickups do not seem to be much less comfortable.  Compared to my old 99 power stroke the HDT is a lot better but compared to a 2022 350 I don't notice a big diffence especially with moderate loads.  Since this is just my opinion I would suggest you ride in an HDT if possible.  Maybe a couple of different brands also as I like my Volvo but didn't like a Freightliner I had. 

[Sculptor]

Some good info above.  Our Volvo was our daily driver for 3ish years.  We were on the road full time and during the summers have moved about the same as you describe, 4 hour travel, every few days to a week.  
Grocery store and hardware store runs got to be routine, hand the stuff up, then hand it back down.

We were at a slight disadvantage in places like Yellowstone, some roads prohibit RV’s and buses for good reason.  Parking in downtown San Antonio to visit the Alamo was a problem.  We ended up taking the bus.  Just rare examples.

if I had it to do over again, I might have our Volvo 730 singled short like Av8r.  Like you, I probably would choose a short sleeper since we never use it.  The sleeper is probably a requirement in any state that allows converting to RV.
The air-up and warm-up never bothered me much. 
It has taken me a long time to get used to the hard banging on potholes.  It throws the drinks out of the cup holder and my wife can’t sleep on the mattress.

I agree with Rickeieio that climbing up and down has disadvantages.  I’ve heard that is where most truckers get injured, but that has only influenced me enough to be more conscious while climbing.  We have stayed at a couple of parks where the time it takes to punch in the gate code is too long to drive through it.  I have to have another person punch it in.  Neither of those reasons would be a deciding factor for me.  Just inconvenient occasionally. 

I haven’t had a big diesel pickup to compare.  That’s what I was looking for when I found these sites for HDTs.  I will say I absolutely love my HDT when pulling the RV.  Only the strongest crosswinds affect it at all.  If the trailer brakes have a problem it’s not a big deal to drive until you can get them fixed.  Not recommended of course.  I didn’t know I had gotten air in the brake lines and drove for awhile before I noticed.  These things happen.

Blessings and good luck. Kevin.

[DavidP]

Thank to everyone. Appreciate all the great information. A lot to think about.

[rickeieio]

David, back your original question......

Randy mentions the difference between his older p/up v. a newer unit.  The same is true of hdt's.  We had a 2001 Volvo for 11 years.  I got a chance to ride in a couple of newer units and was quickly spoiled.

So, your assignment, is to ride in as many trucks of both classes, as you can before deciding. Then let us know what works for you.

One more thing to consider, are you the sole driver?  Will another driver be okay with driving the hdt?  My wife had her cdl and drove school buses for 25 years.  She absolutely will not drive a hdt.

[mike5511]

Regarding how long it takes to get up to operating temperature and all the fluids warmed up and the moisture etc gone. It depends on the temperature. I don't like to drive mine less than 40 miles once I start it, and that is a minimum. In really cold temps, that would increase. I love driving the truck, and  I drove one commercially for 30 years. But, I would hate it as a daily driver, unless you are one of those who stays at the trailer and only makes weekly trips for your necessities. I didn't like the Duramax dually for daily driving much either. You get in these little resort towns and parking a dually with 8ft bed is an issue. The ideal set up would be a HDT with a hydraulic bed you could haul a Smart car on. As far as comfort goes; I've got a bad back. I much prefer riding in the HDT than I did my dually. P.S. forget about a day cab. As has already been mentioned, licensing one could be a problem. But even if you can get around that, two adults and a big purse is about all you can put in the cab. Not to mention your back is right against the rear wall and pretty much straight up.

[DavidP]

Rickeieio,

We are domiciled in Sioux Falls, SD. Will try to attend one or more of the HDT rally's.

I do not have a CDL, so how do I go about riding in different HDT's? Assuming a rally might be the only place if someone would be will to take us for a ride.

I am the only driver for our dually, so would be the same for the HDT.

Mike5511,

Thought Smart Cars might start to be hard to find or maintain since it has been a while since new ones were available.  Carrying a two door jeep would be great, but a long rig, higher cost and I would need to get a jeep. Thought a mid roof Volvo singled short would be be a good option for us, but really need to attend a rally and learn more. 

[rickeieio]

1 hour ago, DavidP said:

I do not have a CDL, so how do I go about riding in different HDT's? Assuming a rally might be the only place if someone would be will to take us for a ride.

At the top of this page is the subject "HDT Members on the Road".  Post there, where you are and where you'll be near term, and ask if you can meet up with another member to check out their rig, and possibly drive it.

I'm just west of Cincinnati, and the truck is ready for a spin.  We're tandem, carry a smart, home built bed.

[GlennWest]

I carried a Smart when we traveled. Great grocery getter and cheap to operate

[Av8r3400]

I like our short rig for our part-time lifestyle.  If we were to full time, I would definitely want a longer wheelbase to do a Smart car or some other small vehicle on the bed of the truck.  As a part-timer we pull a toy hauler so we carry a vehicle in the trailer for our needs, UTV or more recently a Suzuki Samurai.

 

[Deezl Smoke]

On 11/28/2023 at 7:50 AM, DavidP said:

Considering an HDT. A little background… We are full time moving about 4 – 6 hours every 1-3 weeks as we travel across the country. We have a 38’ 5^th wheel with a GVWR of 16,500. Loaded it is about 16K with a pin weight of 4,000 lbs. We have a 2022 F350 dually.

Considering an HDT for all the safety reasons, although the F350 is well within its limits. No plan to upgrade to a larger 5^th wheel. But… I have lower back issues. After 3-4 hours in the F350 it is very painful. Seeing many comments about the HDT being much more comfortable than our F350. That along with all the other benefits of an HDT has us considering it.

An HDT would be our daily driver. A short mid roof HDT 2’ – 3’ longer than the pickup would seem like a good fit for us.

Are the short wheelbase HDT’s still more comfortable than the pickup?   

Is the difference in ride comfort in an HDT that much better than an F350?

 So personally, and I do not pull a 5er, but have driven truck of several combinations, at 4-6 hours every few weeks, I would just stick with the 350, or maybe move up to a 450 or 550.

 I like to promote the HDT tow genre but in your listed time frame on the road and trip lengths, I'd stick with the PU style tow vehicle, at least till your distance traveled changes.

 By moving up in frame size like a 550, you get larger tire diameters, and, you can even run 22.5 low profile semi tires if you wish. This will help lower the bump transfer up through to the seat. The larger frames are made for "hot shot" commercial load hauling and will have a bit more ergonomic cabin and seat combo. Small changes make a big difference IMO.

 You can order that 2-3' longer wb in the 550ish chassis to even better smooth out the ride and still get around town.

 I fear that with only a 2 ton hitch weight, and lots of daily trips, going to the HDT as a get around rig will sour your experience. I'd rather see people happy with a 450-550 than try and fail at a HDT and then answer questions about their experience, though honest, deter someone that can better utilize the HDT.

 IMO.

[rickeieio]

50 minutes ago, Deezl Smoke said:

The larger frames are made for "hot shot" commercial load hauling and will have a bit more ergonomic cabin and seat combo. Small changes make a big difference IMO.

I can't speak to other brands, but in the Ford truck line, all cabs are the same, from F-150 through F-550.  Seats are too.  I would think GM and Ram would be similar.

[Darryl&Rita]

16 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

I can't speak to other brands, but in the Ford truck line, all cabs are the same, from F-150 through F-550.  Seats are too.  I would think GM and Ram would be similar.

I don't know if they're still the same cabs for the 650 & 750 series, but you could get air seats factory in the bigger trucks. Makes a pile of difference in ride comfort.

[mike5511]

21 hours ago, DavidP said:

 

Mike5511,

Thought Smart Cars might start to be hard to find or maintain since it has been a while since new ones were available.  Carrying a two door jeep would be great, but a long rig, higher cost and I would need to get a jeep. Thought a mid roof Volvo singled short would be be a good option for us, but really need to attend a rally and learn more. 

So far so good. There is quite a following on the Smart forums and several different Facebook pages. I'm hoping mine won't need many parts for a long while. Just sold an 08 and bought a 15. If this 2015 will be as reliable as the 08 was, I'll  be extremely happy! The 08 never gave us any problem. I basically bought the 15 just for the color. 08 was Blue, the 15 is white. 

[Deezl Smoke]

4 hours ago, rickeieio said:

I can't speak to other brands, but in the Ford truck line, all cabs are the same, from F-150 through F-550.  Seats are too.  I would think GM and Ram would be similar.

 Could there be a trim option package? The 550 that a neighbor parks here with his 30' PJ from time to time, is way more upright than any 150 I've sat in. Though, that number is quite low.

 But the general point I attempted is that given similar year models between a 350 and an HDT, they both will have DEF, SCR, DPF etc. emission. The comfort gain for the low tow miles, vs. the compromises made for the considerably higher daily starts and stops etc., seems a little on the harsh side. The PU engines and emissions, though still made for longer travels, can get up to temp much faster than the HDT, and as such the potential for expensive maintenance input seems less.

 But again, this is just my opinion, which is worth exact amount paid.

[Phil D]

10 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

I don't know if they're still the same cabs for the 650 & 750 series, but you could get air seats factory in the bigger trucks. Makes a pile of difference in ride comfort.

The F650 and F750 use the previous generation Super Duty cabs, likely with a slightly different floor pan.

[Ray,IN]

An air-ride seat for a Ford F350 would be a lot cheaper than trading trucks just for an air-ride seat. https://www.seat-specialists.com/categories/seats-by-truck/ford.html

Edited December 1, 2023 by Ray,IN

[Av8r3400]

10 hours ago, rickeieio said:

I can't speak to other brands, but in the Ford truck line, all cabs are the same, from F-150 through F-550.  Seats are too.  I would think GM and Ram would be similar.

This is exactly correct, Rick.  The F150-F550 all use the same cab.  The same goes for GM and Ram.

The F650 & 750 use the "old" style steel body "Super Duty" cabs.  Good luck finding a 650 or 750 that is not a vinyl seat rubber floor type truck unless you have a complete custom conversion done.

[rickeieio]

Hmmm...  It makes sense that the floor pan might be different on the heavier trucks.  The cab needs to sit higher in relation to the frame to allow for the drive line.  Low pan allows the air ride seat.

All this said, I tried really hard to justify a MDT before buying the KW.  I just couldn't find anything half as good for twice the money.  The KW, btw, rides nearly as nice as my F-150.

And Larry, you were the first one to spoil me with the nicer ride of the newer trucks.

[DavidP]

Ray,IN

I agree and a great suggestion, it would be cheaper to put an air ride seat in my F350 and we are giving that a serious look. Considering the HDT for not only a more comfortable ride, but also for all the other reasons. Safety being top of the list. We recently did our first 8% grade for 4.5 miles at 35 mph. The truck did it. The exhaust brake did most of the work, but I could not help but think what would happen if the trailer brakes had failed. There is no way I could have stopped with just the truck brakes. We plan on spending a lot of time next year out west. Assuming we will see more 8-10% grades and longer. 

We had to do a sudden stop at an intersection with a light that turned red that we did not know was there until we came around a corner. Got it stopped, but the trailer did push us about 10 feet past the stop line. 

The additional storage we could have with an HDT would be great to remove some weight from the trailer. We are full time. Sold our house and have a small storage unit. So we most likely carry a little more than someone not full time. We are right at 25% for our pin weight. Had it weighed at a rally and everything is within the limits, just close to max with some. 

The extended range with larger fuel tanks would also be nice.

We are now considering a smart car. 

If an HDT rode no better or worse than my truck, we would not be considering it. So that was really our first question and everyone has helped us understand it might. With the right truck and new seat, it could be a more comfortable ride. Climbing in and out would not be an issue. We do need to get to a rally and have a lot more to learn. 

Really appreciate all the help we are getting from everyone on this forum. It really gives us a lot of great information to think about. 

David

 

[jenandjon]

I went from a 07 Chevy crew cab long box to a 03 freightliner singled long. Does the truck ride better? Absolutely not. Are we more comfortable? Without a doubt. When we were on long trips I was always exhausted after a few hours. Always having to be on my toes. Trailer always pushing the truck. With my Freightliner I set the cruise and go. My stopping distance has dramatically improved. Wife is not so nervous. Another big plus is the kids are farther back in the sleeper. If the get to fighting and arguing I just turn the radio up and I cant hear them.