Insurance, again, 10% incress on the truck, 18% incress on the trailer, NO CLAIMS

[mr. cob]

17 hours ago, Danandfreda said:

Herrmann insurance agency rapid city South Dakota call and ask

Howdy Dan,

Gave these folks a call, they only insure folks whose domicile is in South Dakota, we are not full time and reside in the Peoples Republik of Washington.

Dave

[mr. cob]

Howdy All,

This should be an interesting post, getting this information was an eye opening experience for me perhaps you too will be a bit surprised.

To start off with, I am now insured by Progressive, through the Miller agency in Oregon.

To renew Progressive, wants $1,218.00 for the truck, $626.00 for the trailer, total loss would be paid at actual cash value, no agreed amount possible on my truck or trailer, they are to old, truck is a 2001, trailer is a 2014.  Total cost, $1,844.00

So I did some research based on recommendations from Progressive, they recommended these three companies.

American Choice Ins.  This company will not write a policy for Washington State.

American Adventure.  They will write the exact same policy that Progressive is offering to renew at $814.00 for the truck, $736.00 for the trailer.  Total cost, $1,550.00

Brown and Brown.  This company will again write the exact same policy from Progressive, at $846.00 for the truck, $584.00 for the trailer.  Total cost, $1,430.00

I again called Good Sam, after it was recommended in this thread, here is what they quoted me, $850.00 on the truck, $723.00 on the trailer.  Total cost, $1,573.00

Bear in mind that ALL of these companies are selling a policy backed by Progressive, with the exact same coverage, paying actual cash value in case of total loss.

I did some research near as I can tell my trailer if a total loss, might get me $40,000.00 actual cash value, no where near what it would cost to replace, nothing for the brand new solar system, nothing for the upgrade to 17.5 wheels and commercial grade tires, nothing for any of the improvements I have made over the last 6 years since buying it new.

I have no idea what the actual cash value of the truck would be or how it would be determined, all I know is that I would get nothing for all the work I have done to it, the Smart Car deck, the inverter-charger, micro wave, new seats rolling new bearings into the engine along with all the other details I had taken care of that cost thousands so there wouldn't be any problems down the road.

As you can see the cost of the SAME policy, written by the SAME company can cost up to 414 dollars LESS depending on who you buy it from.  Bottom line in my case, it's illegal and stupid to not have insurance but no matter where I buy it I am going to be spending a considerable amount of money and if I should get into a wreck or experience some type of event that results in a total loss my RV'ing days are over as I will get nothing compared to replacement cost to either the truck or the trailer.

When I had a cheap truck and an old worn out trailer this was acceptable, now it's enough to make a grown man highly pi$$ed off that such legal theft is allowed but has to be endured.  Sorry for the rant but it makes me sick to my stomach to pay for such treatment and be legally and morally obligated to do it.

I have no idea what you folks who have new, newer trucks and very nice new or newer trailers pay for insurance but it must be a huge sum based on what it costs to insure my old truck and mid-grade trailer.

Dave

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by mr. cob
kuz i kant sqel

[lappir]

You purchase insurance for the peace of mind that you will never need to use it. The reality comes when you have to use it and it's not worth the paper it was printed on. 

I have submitted very few claims during my lifetime and have always been disappointed in the response. I'm pretty sure that will not change, but I still pay the premiums. I do only carry liability insurance for items I own that are paid for,  have treated me very well and with the likelihood I could never replace them at any cost. Why pay any more for the disappointment. Now loosing something from the act of another is a whole different matter. There should be no question if a person or an object under the control of a person causes the destruction of another person or their property. It should be replaced completely at no cost to the original owner. Of course that's  a pipe dream too. 

 

Rod

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

22 hours ago, mr. cob said:

Howdy Jim,

Thanks for your reply, yes, 2400 bucks is a lot of money but if it will pay you a decent amount should you be misfortune enough to need it; it's heck of a lot better then paying 2/3 of that and getting next to nothing in case of a total loss. 

In my case I couldn't even buy the deck on my truck for what the actual cash value of a 20 year old truck may be.  We don't have a fancy trailer or a modern truck but for us it was a major investment that if totaled with what we could get from insurance would end our RV'ing as we do it now, at this age no way I could afford to spend the replacement cost to our truck and trailer.

Dave

Our old Volvo turned 23.... next time around I'm going to see if Hagerty's will cover it.

[crazybanshee]

I had Farmers Union for twelve years until National bought them out last year and wanted to double my rates. Now I have Safeco and the Volvo is $500 a year and our Momentum is $950 a year. Paying monthly it doesn't hurt as bad

[mr. cob]

Howdy All,

Enough of my whining, I'll do like I always have, open the wallet and hand over the cash but that don't mean I have to like it.  Thanks everyone for giving me a place to vent, it helps, it really does to just sometimes howl at the moon or shout into cyber-space when one can't do anything else to ease the financial pain of being a responsible person.

Dave

[RandyA]

No agent - go directly to National General.  Have Full Timer policy on trailer which provides better liability coverage and loss of contents is higher.  When our old trailer caught fire they paid "NADA" value plus a nice negotiated increase for improvements and additions then told me to take what I wanted off/out of the burnt trailer before Coparts came to pick it up.  Hydraulic pump, inverter, water pump, converter, batteries, awning frame, leveling controller, jacks, rear AC, furnace, dish washer, stove and more were removed and kept.  I carry both comp and collision on the truck which is NADA value.  If they totaled the 2004 Volvo I would buy it back or strip expensive equipment like seats, electronics, hitch, etc. out before letting it go.  Different situation if you have an expensive bed.  My premium on truck and trailer went DOWN this year.  Our insurance coverage is based on NADA or book value for both truck and trailer.

[chief916]

On 7/14/2021 at 8:56 PM, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

Our old Volvo turned 23.... next time around I'm going to see if Hagerty's will cover it.

Now that is something I would like to know...i'm right there with you on the truck age.

[mr. cob]

19 hours ago, RandyA said:

No agent - go directly to National General.  Have Full Timer policy on trailer which provides better liability coverage and loss of contents is higher.  When our old trailer caught fire they paid "NADA" value plus a nice negotiated increase for improvements and additions then told me to take what I wanted off/out of the burnt trailer before Coparts came to pick it up.  Hydraulic pump, inverter, water pump, converter, batteries, awning frame, leveling controller, jacks, rear AC, furnace, dish washer, stove and more were removed and kept.  I carry both comp and collision on the truck which is NADA value.  If they totaled the 2004 Volvo I would buy it back or strip expensive equipment like seats, electronics, hitch, etc. out before letting it go.  Different situation if you have an expensive bed.  My premium on truck and trailer went DOWN this year.  Our insurance coverage is based on NADA or book value for both truck and trailer.

Howdy Randy,

I am getting my insurance through Miller, in Oregon.  They had me with National General until the rates were jacked they then placed me with Progressive where I am now.  I did not know a person could strip the truck and trailer before turning it over, to me that sounds not only reasonable but it should be illegal for the insurance company to TAKE from you items NOT compensated for in the policy. 

If I understand your post correctly one would have to "buy back" the truck and trailer, in able to do the stripping, to me that again sounds like legal THEFT of personal property.  In a buy back situation one would have to pay to have the hulks towed to your home or someplace where the stripping could be done and labor to do the work if a person couldn't do it themselves, all of this would not be compensated for by the insurance.

lawyers and insurance companies, the only real winners in today's society.

Dave

[steiny93]

On 7/14/2021 at 6:04 PM, mr. cob said:

 

I did some research near as I can tell my trailer if a total loss, might get me $40,000.00 actual cash value, no where near what it would cost to replace

...

my RV'ing days are over as I will get nothing compared to replacement cost to either the truck or the trailer.

Keep in mind,  you are not playing premiums to get a 'new' item if your item is totaled.  You are paying insurance to be paid for an item of similar condition.  The 'extras' you describe can be added as riders in some cases, otherwise yah, if you can't remove those items you will lose their value.

 

I don't agree with the last part.  If you had a total lose you would be paid enough to pay for a similar trailer (year / model) and a similar truck (year / model).  It isn't going to be your specific truck but it will be one with similar attributes.

 

[mr. cob]

1 hour ago, steiny93 said:

Keep in mind,  you are not playing premiums to get a 'new' item if your item is totaled.  You are paying insurance to be paid for an item of similar condition.  The 'extras' you describe can be added as riders in some cases, otherwise yah, if you can't remove those items you will lose their value.

 

I don't agree with the last part.  If you had a total lose you would be paid enough to pay for a similar trailer (year / model) and a similar truck (year / model).  It isn't going to be your specific truck but it will be one with similar attributes.

 

Howdy steiny93,

I don't know it for a fact but I seriously doubt that any insurance company that pays "actual cash value" in case of total loss would pay anywhere near what it would cost to replace or replicate my truck.  I searched the internet and other sources for over a year to find this particular truck and had the cash on hand to do a fly and buy when I found it. 

It's not some run of the mill fleet truck but a costume ordered built to spec truck for an individual original owner/operator.  My truck was never in a fleet, I am the third individual owner/operator, I have been in contact with the widowed wife ( team driver ) of the original owner/operator whose build plaque is still on the dash. I have among the documents the original build spec sheet.  I had personal contact with the 2nd owner/operator who traded this truck in on a brand new Pete, who told me of all the work that was done before the trade in. If I were to be paid double what I have invested in this truck ( less then 50K ) I'd have one hell of a time finding another like it.

Dave

[RandyA]

Mr. Cob, several things I have encountered in my 75 year lifetime.  One example, my daughter totaled her 6 year old car - at least according to the insurance company (cost of body-shop repair exceeded the value of the car).  They said they would pay her NADA private party seller value which was about 8K.  I asked the insurance company what it would cost to buy back the car rather than give it to them.  They left the car with me and sent a check for $600 less than the insurance value.  They did not even mess with the title.  Armed with an armada of tools, I went to one of those pick-and-pay salvage yards and found several cars identical to hers.  I ended up buying a hood, headlight assembly, front fender, door and rear quarter all for less than $200.  Over a period of a couple of weeks, I replaced the damaged sheet metal with my salvage parts.  Everything but the rear quarter was nut and bolt.  We repainted the car outdoors with base coat/clear coat, fine sanded out the bugs that got in the paint, buffed and it looked like a new car.  All total parts and materials to restore the car were right at $1400, the rest of the insurance check when in my pocket.  Case two, my son's 26' Salem camper was flipped on it's side by a mini tornado that came through this area.  Insurance totaled the camper.  I got him to buy back the camper.  He got something like $23K for the camper, I paid him the $850 buy back (only the registered owner can buy-back in an insurance loss - no 2nd party sales allowed).  I then fixed the right side of the camper with new aluminum siding and a used awning and door along with some inside work for about $500 is select used parts, put it in my front yard with a For Sale sign and sold it the next day for $18K.  Yes, I am handy with tools and actually enjoy doing that type of work (as a hobby) and not everyone has a place or desire to undertake such a project.  I mentioned stripping out our Cedar Creek after the fire that burned the front and ruined the interior from smoke damage.  Without ever looking at the camper there was a "deal" in place with CoParts to buy totaled campers for a fixed salvage price sight unseen.  So, the appraiser knowing this, told us to take what we wanted before they came to pick it up.  This is not at all unusual.  If we had not been in Florida but near home I would have kept the entire totaled fiver.  Me and and a group of friends worked our tails off removing salvageable personal items and parts from the trailer.  My son came down to Florida in his PU and we rented a U-Haul trailer, packed it full and he took the stuff back to VA.  Even with all this I came out thousands of dollars ahead in parts.  What needs to happen is the totaled vehicle must to be in your possession, not in a storage yard of a wrecker company.  In those cases I had the damaged vehicle brought to my home/shop - only then did I file a claim with the insurance company.  Possession is 9/10 of the deal.  If I wanted to keep it I could for the salvage value.  If I didn't, pick-up by the recycler is usually several days.  Plenty of time to strip out valuable upgrades, even swap out wheels and tires (if you can find old ones that will roll) unless you are laid up with injuries.  Even then you can usually find a friend or sibling to strip it for you.  Most insurance does not pay you for those added or new items anyway, if they do it is pennies on the dollar.  When you do a buy-back deal it is imperative that you hold the title and NEVER let the insurance company touch it.  But know if money is owed to a bank or finance company THEY usually hold the title and getting a clean non-salvage title become more difficult because the insurance company pays them first as the lien holder.  In those cases, pay off the loan immediately if you can so you have the title BEFORE the insurance company gets involved.  If the insurance company gets to the lien holder  first you end up with a salvage title when you buy-back which causes all sorts of problems with registration and new insurance.  In some cases the insurance company may NOT want the vehicle for salvage and are happy to leave it with you - less work and hassle for them to abandon the vehicle.  Main reason I never buy from a salvage auction is the title issue, which is quite common unless the buy is strictly to obtain parts.  It is all a game that needs to be played to your advantage.  Few folks know what the rules of the game are.  I live in a rural area with a nice chunk of land and distant neighbors so unlike a City dweller on a 1/4 acre lot or restrictive subdivision covenants I can do stuff like that.  NEVER give a truck like yours or mine to an insurance company if you have items worth more than their salvage value.  If you buy the vehicle back at salvage price once you pull the good parts off you can still sell what is left along with any parts you don't want to keep.  Most any truck or camper is worth more for its parts and pieces than as an intact unit unless it is totally burned or massively messed up.  Shucks, a busted up hood, radiator, grill, headlight and fender will total most of our trucks due to age and mileage.  Those can be replaced by most everyone reading this with reasonable priced used parts.  YOU have the legal right to buy-back or keep your vehicle for salvage.  You do NOT have to turn it over to your insurance company.

Edited July 18, 2021 by RandyA

[mr. cob]

2 hours ago, RandyA said:

Mr. Cob, several things I have encountered in my 75 year lifetime.  One example, my daughter totaled her 6 year old car - at least according to the insurance company (cost of body-shop repair exceeded the value of the car).  They said they would pay her NADA private party seller value which was about 8K.  I asked the insurance company what it would cost to buy back the car rather than give it to them.  They left the car with me and sent a check for $600 less than the insurance value.  They did not even mess with the title.  Armed with an armada of tools, I went to one of those pick-and-pay salvage yards and found several cars identical to hers.  I ended up buying a hood, headlight assembly, front fender, door and rear quarter all for less than $200.  Over a period of a couple of weeks, I replaced the damaged sheet metal with my salvage parts.  Everything but the rear quarter was nut and bolt.  We repainted the car outdoors with base coat/clear coat, fine sanded out the bugs that got in the paint, buffed and it looked like a new car.  All total parts and materials to restore the car were right at $1400, the rest of the insurance check when in my pocket.  Case two, my son's 26' Salem camper was flipped on it's side by a mini tornado that came through this area.  Insurance totaled the camper.  I got him to buy back the camper.  He got something like $23K for the camper, I paid him the $850 buy back (only the registered owner can buy-back in an insurance loss - no 2nd party sales allowed).  I then fixed the right side of the camper with new aluminum siding and a used awning and door along with some inside work for about $500 is select used parts, put it in my front yard with a For Sale sign and sold it the next day for $18K.  Yes, I am handy with tools and actually enjoy doing that type of work (as a hobby) and not everyone has a place or desire to undertake such a project.  I mentioned stripping out our Cedar Creek after the fire that burned the front and ruined the interior from smoke damage.  Without ever looking at the camper there was a "deal" in place with CoParts to buy totaled campers for a fixed salvage price sight unseen.  So, the appraiser knowing this, told us to take what we wanted before they came to pick it up.  This is not at all unusual.  If we had not been in Florida but near home I would have kept the entire totaled fiver.  Me and and a group of friends worked our tails off removing salvageable personal items and parts from the trailer.  My son came down to Florida in his PU and we rented a U-Haul trailer, packed it full and he took the stuff back to VA.  Even with all this I came out thousands of dollars ahead in parts.  What needs to happen is the totaled vehicle must to be in your possession, not in a storage yard of a wrecker company.  In those cases I had the damaged vehicle brought to my home/shop - only then did I file a claim with the insurance company.  Possession is 9/10 of the deal.  If I wanted to keep it I could for the salvage value.  If I didn't, pick-up by the recycler is usually several days.  Plenty of time to strip out valuable upgrades, even swap out wheels and tires (if you can find old ones that will roll) unless you are laid up with injuries.  Even then you can usually find a friend or sibling to strip it for you.  Most insurance does not pay you for those added or new items anyway, if they do it is pennies on the dollar.  When you do a buy-back deal it is imperative that you hold the title and NEVER let the insurance company touch it.  But know if money is owed to a bank or finance company THEY usually hold the title and getting a clean non-salvage title become more difficult because the insurance company pays them first as the lien holder.  In those cases, pay off the loan immediately if you can so you have the title BEFORE the insurance company gets involved.  If the insurance company gets to the lien holder  first you end up with a salvage title when you buy-back which causes all sorts of problems with registration and new insurance.  In some cases the insurance company may NOT want the vehicle for salvage and are happy to leave it with you - less work and hassle for them to abandon the vehicle.  Main reason I never buy from a salvage auction is the title issue, which is quite common unless the buy is strictly to obtain parts.  It is all a game that needs to be played to your advantage.  Few folks know what the rules of the game are.  I live in a rural area with a nice chunk of land and distant neighbors so unlike a City dweller on a 1/4 acre lot or restrictive subdivision covenants I can do stuff like that.  NEVER give a truck like yours or mine to an insurance company if you have items worth more than their salvage value.  If you buy the vehicle back at salvage price once you pull the good parts off you can still sell what is left along with any parts you don't want to keep.  Most any truck or camper is worth more for its parts and pieces than as an intact unit unless it is totally burned or massively messed up.  Shucks, a busted up hood, radiator, grill, headlight and fender will total most of our trucks due to age and mileage.  Those can be replaced by most everyone reading this with reasonable priced used parts.  YOU have the legal right to buy-back or keep your vehicle for salvage.  You do NOT have to turn it over to your insurance company.

Howdy Randy,

THANK YOU for this post.  I have never had a total loss so I admit I don't know squat about how it works.  What I do know is if some arse hole were to take off a front fender and Hood of my truck while pulling out of a truck stop or rest area the cost to replace those items would probably have the darn insurance company totaling my truck.

NOT knowing what I am talking about I ASSUMED that to buy back a truck or trailer would cost close to what the insurance company paid out in the claim.  I know that I could part out my truck and get quite a sum for the parts, a good core C-15 engine is going for over 10K, mine has had a Platinum rebuild and the paper work to back it up that engine alone could probably get me 15K+ if I wanted to sell it.  The 18 speed Eaton-Fuller Auto-Shift transmission is another very valuable item that I am sure would fetch a good price, this is a very rare transmission.

Dave

[rickeieio]

Agree with Randy, mostly.  My daughter totaled the same car three times.  Had it fixed for far less than the estimate the first two.  The last time, I stored it for her, got re-imbursed for hauling it and storage too. Be nice to the adjuster and they'll work with you, once you demonstrate that you're your not out to fleece them.  BTW, since she didn't owe anything on the car, there was never a rebuild title issued.

Now to slightly disagree.... I've owned two trucks with rebuild titles.  I bought them from a reputable shop specializing in Ford Super Duties.  I paid far less then market value for them, and got less when I sold them.  But I still lost less over the time I owned them than one would if buying "clean titled" trucks.  I never had a problem getting insurance, but I've never had a claim.  That just might be a factor.  My banker buddy said he'd loan on a rebuild, but might require a larger down payment.

So, don't stress too much over "stated value" or "agreed value".  In the unlikely case it becomes an issue, you'll likely come out ahead.

[steiny93]

On 7/16/2021 at 4:33 PM, mr. cob said:

Howdy steiny93,

I don't know it for a fact but I seriously doubt that any insurance company that pays "actual cash value" in case of total loss would pay anywhere near what it would cost to replace or replicate my truck.

If by 'actual cash value' you mean the dollars to obtain a similar (make / model / mileage / etc) vehicle, yes, that's exactly how it works.  I've dealt with multiple total loss scenarios; that part is easy with compatibles.

If by 'actual cash value' you mean the dollars to do all the 'stuff' you did to your truck, then no.  If you want that you need to change your policy to 'agreed value' and pay a higher premium.  I have this type of policy currently as well, it isn't cheap but it's simple.

[rickeieio]

So, a while back I related that I was having trouble getting Progressive to write the KW.  I called Lazy Days three times, got the same bi....female each time.  She insisted if it didn't have a bathroom, it wasn't a motorhome.  Called again today and spoke to Grace.  This lady knows her stuff.  The only glitch was she seemed a little confused that it was a KW rather than a Volvo.  

Max liability, injury, roadside assistance, everything except glass replacement,  $5k deductible, all for $553/yr.  Less than I was paying on the Volvo.

[durangodon]

11 hours ago, rickeieio said:

I called Lazy Days three times, got the same bi....female each time. 

 

How did you know she was bi?  Sorry, couldn't resist.

[rickeieio]

You're a bad boy.....

[mr. cob]

Howdy All,

After talking to Roxanne, at Miller Insurance, I have gotten a hold off an appraiser and am now in the process of getting the truck appraised so I can get an insurance quote for an AGREED VALUE.  I'll let you folks know how this goes.

Dave

[gypsydan]

On 7/12/2021 at 2:03 PM, Pat & Pete said:

That would call for the case to be opened and invite some of your friends .

There are agents that do exactly what you'd think they should/would be doing , not simply collecting premiums .

Any clue as to where to find those agents?

[gypsydan]

On 7/13/2021 at 9:57 PM, aknavy said:

My agent:

Cory Jacobs

Executive Sales Agent

800 Superior Ave. E.

Cleveland, Ohio 44114

(216) 592-7173

Cory.Jacobs@ngic.com

 

Just sent me my renewal paperwork today, so I know he does for Florida.  Not sure if your location causes issues, but give him a call.

I've been reading this very informative thread, where every comment brings up interesting questions, like "If you are a full-timer, and your location constatnly changes, why would location of your policy matter when you do not have a location."  Is "location" dependant on your tax and legal domicile?  Something I will have to ask my agent.

[gypsydan]

On 7/15/2021 at 3:25 PM, RandyA said:

No agent - go directly to National General.  Have Full Timer policy on trailer which provides better liability coverage and loss of contents is higher. 

It is sad that we have to do our own due process in finding insurance.

I was insured with a famous agency and asked for a new policy, hoping to get a better price. They insured me with National General. It was several weeks before I got a chance to actually read the entire policy, beyond the Coverage Summary.  I discovering that it stated I had to be in the state for which it was written seven (7) months out of the year for it to be effective. Agent had NO CLUE that was in the policy.

I am now with Progressive.  Rates have gone from $580 in 2017 to $1132 in 2021.  Because of this thread I'm waiting for a call from my agent, to talk. 😬

[Pat & Pete]

1 hour ago, gypsydan said:

Any clue as to where to find those agents?

I'd think you'd be lucky to find one , after reading all the 'bad' reviews here . 

Just so happens that DW was in insurance for over 30 years and knows a think about what's what . 

So she knows a good agent when she sees one .

[Sculptor]

On 7/14/2021 at 4:15 PM, mr. cob said:

Howdy Dan,

Gave these folks a call, they only insure folks whose domicile is in South Dakota, we are not full time and reside in the Peoples Republik of Washington.

Dave

I went with the Herrmann agency this year, in June.  I also needed to move both vehicles registration to SD at the same time.  I’M NOT SURE, but I think I just needed to have both vehicles registered there, not domiciled there.  
The rate at Progressive jumped almost 50% for us. No claims!  As luck would have it we had moved out of NC and were full time anyway.  Advice from this site led me to the Herrmann agency, and the policy is with Nationwide now.

[Danandfreda]

Went with Hermann over a year ago for for car hdt and fifth wheel. Very good to work with