Surviving On 30 amps

[SecondWind]

Based on info in this thread from 2 years ago...

...it seems that wires and plugs degrade with age, so you should really not use more than 26 amps at once to be safe.  The average A/C takes 13 amps, the average water heater takes 10, and the average fridge takes 3.  Those 3 items are thus taking up your entire available 26 amps.  So my question is....  How do you survive on 30 amps, as there is no room to run anything else?

 

Cheers,

Ken

[sandsys]

All of our rigs have been 30 amp rigs and we lived just fine in them. True I could not use the induction burner and hair dryer at the same time but why would I? I learned I could turn on my 2.5 gallon electric water heater for 10 minutes then turn it off and have water the perfect temperature for a shower without having to fiddle with the cold faucet at all. It's not nearly as hard as most people who have not done it think it will be.

Linda Sand

[LindaH]

9 minutes ago, SecondWind said:

How do you survive on 30 amps, as there is no room to run anything else?

We survive just fine.

Our rig has only two large users of AC electricity:  The A/C and the microwave, both of which can be run at the same time (in those rare instances when we're plugged into electricity at an RV park).  Our water heater is a propane on-demand one which requires no AC to use.  The refrigerator takes very little AC.  The only other AC items we run are charging our laptops, phones, and tablets and using the satellite receiver (the TV is DC).

[AFchap]

20 minutes ago, SecondWind said:

The average A/C takes 13 amps, the average water heater takes 10, and the average fridge takes 3.  Those 3 items are thus taking up your entire available 26 amps.  So my question is....  How do you survive on 30 amps, as there is no room to run anything else?

We run the water heater on LP when on 30a unless we are not using the ac/heat pump.  Same with the refrigerator before I upgraded to a residential model that is electric only.

[justRich]

We allow about 20 minutes for the (6-gallons) water heater to get hot enough for showers.  And turn it off overnight - it's still hot the next morning.
I'll turn it on at breakfast just to insure hot water for the day and off when leaving the camper.  Water stays hot all the time that way.  Its just a matter of conservation for us.

  

[Barbaraok]

2 hours ago, SecondWind said:

Based on info in this thread from 2 years ago...

...it seems that wires and plugs degrade with age, so you should really not use more than 26 amps at once to be safe.  The average A/C takes 13 amps, the average water heater takes 10, and the average fridge takes 3.  Those 3 items are thus taking up your entire available 26 amps.  So my question is....  How do you survive on 30 amps, as there is no room to run anything else?

 

Cheers,

Ken

Actually unless it is over 90, we do just fine on 30 amps even thought our rig is wired for 50 amps.  You just learned. That you one run high usage term at a time.  We. Keep frig, water heater on electric, and just use things wisely.  For example, your water heater isn't heating all day, most time it just sitting there.  Same with he fridge, and the inverter, etc.  if AC is going, (compressor on) we don't use microwave.  You just learn how things work and soon it is second nature.

 

Barb

[mptjelgin]

While it is more convenient for us to have 50 amps (we don't have to turn anything off...) we've spent our past two summers in volunteer jobs that only had 30 amp service. We leave the refrigerator on electric and turn off the A/C or heat pump when we use the microwave/convection oven. We usually switch the water heater over to propane and just forget about it, but if I'm in the mood so save propane I'll use it on electric and turn it on and off as others have described. 

Managing on 30 amps just takes an awareness of which appliances draw large amounts of power, and accounting for it. 

[Kirk W]

Ken, as a retired electrical worker, I'll try to explain just a little bit. It really isn't the age of the outlet that matters on how much power you can use, but the fact that all circuit breakers are designed to open at differeing levels under different cirumstances. A 30A circuit breaker has an instantanious trip point that is probably up around twice the rated load current, a "short time" trip level that is just over the rating, and a "long time" trip point that is typically a bit under the rated capacity. In most cases, a cricuit breaker can only carry a continous load of around 90% of capacity, which is 27a for most 30a circuit breakers.  The design is such that each time the circuit breaker trips for any reason, that trip point gets a tiny amount lower. They do that for safety reasons to be sure that the breaker trip point never gets higher with age. If that circuit breaker is never overloaded, that set point will remain pretty much the same for many years, but if tripped frequently, it is a good idea to replace it with a new one every couple of years. 

What is important to realize is that when you add up the rated current requirements of a group of loads, you are only limited by that total when all are drawing that maximum load at the same time. Your air conditioner only draws it's rated current draw when the compressor is running and that isn't all of the time. The same is true of any appliance so you can usually use somewhat more than the circuit breaker rating would indicate because the loads are not constant and at maximum all of the time, so often the do not occur at the same time. It is true that you probably can not operate an air conditioner and an electric water heater at the same time, but water heaters work quite nicely on propane and so you just use the electric when not needing air conditioning. Certainly you could not run both of those and your microwave. Many 30a RVs do not come with water heaters that have an electric element, just to avoid that sort of problem. The key is that when we operate on a 30a power supply, we just lean to manage our power use and that really isn't that difficult nor that limiting once you get a feel for things. For a larger RV it is imporatnt to hae 50a capability so that you can use two air conditioners at the same time and still run the microwave and perhaps an electric water heater and maybe a coffee pot as well, all at the same time. 

[Biker56]

Fleetwood started back in the late 90's putting a Energy Management System  in their 30AMP vehicles.

In mine you could run both AC's(13.5K-11K) at the same time and if you turned on the microwave it would shut power off to one of the AC's until the microwave shut off then the AC would start again. That worked very good until I replaced the 13.5K with a 15k heat pump and the 11K with a 13.5k

After that I added another 30AMP breaker box to run the 15K heat pump and a stand alone Ice Maker. And I can switch those back to the OEM breaker box when traveling and going to use the generator.

 

 

[coachmac9]

We have managed just fine for 3 years now on 30 amp...as noted above our Fleetwood will turn one of the AC's off when the microwave is going but we seldom have both units on at the same time. The front one cools the entire coach down just fine. We normally use gas for the hot water heater but have had no issue when we used the Camco add on unit that we installed to use electricity to heat the water. Guess it's what you get used to!

[SecondWind]

Thanks for all the replies.  I guess 30amps isn't as scary as it first seems.  Just a new routine to learn.

 

And EMS...  what a novel concept.  A computer that helps prioritize if you forget something like turning off the AC before using the microwave.  If Fleetwood started using them in the late 90's, I assume all manufacturers have EMS by now, yes?

 

Cheers,

Ken

[mptjelgin]

2 hours ago, SecondWind said:

And EMS...  what a novel concept.  A computer that helps prioritize if you forget something like turning off the AC before using the microwave.  If Fleetwood started using them in the late 90's, I assume all manufacturers have EMS by now, yes?

Not really. What most manufacturers of larger units have done is wired them for 50 amp service (which actually offers two 50 amp legs, so more than 3 times the available power of the older 30 amp service). That is becoming more and more common, and does away with the issues of needing an EMS to manage loads.

What it doesn't do is solve the issue of having a 50 amp service hooked up to a 30 amp service. There may be 50 amp RV's out there with an EMS to help you manage for lower amperage hookups, but I've not seen one. 

[Ray,IN]

This chart may be helpful when learning what appliances you may operate.

[Chad Heiser]

4 hours ago, mptjelgin said:

What it doesn't do is solve the issue of having a 50 amp service hooked up to a 30 amp service. There may be 50 amp RV's out there with an EMS to help you manage for lower amperage hookups, but I've not seen one. 

They definitely make them.  It is standard equipment on DRV 5th wheels.  When we are on anything other than 50 amp service, it starts up and monitors loads, shutting certain appliances off in a specific order as needed to keep the trailer from pulling too much power.

[AFchap]

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 6:38 PM, mptjelgin said:

Not really. What most manufacturers of larger units have done is wired them for 50 amp service (which actually offers two 50 amp legs, so more than 3 times the available power of the older 30 amp service). That is becoming more and more common, and does away with the issues of needing an EMS to manage loads.

What it doesn't do is solve the issue of having a 50 amp service hooked up to a 30 amp service. There may be 50 amp RV's out there with an EMS to help you manage for lower amperage hookups, but I've not seen one. 

Many have EMS units on 50a coaches, including my 2003 Winnebago.  The only time I really need the EMS is when my 50a coach is connected to 30a service ...no problem otherwise. And 2003 was far from the first year for Winnebago including an EMS on a 50a coach.

[Mike and Claudia]

Soooo--  When you have a fifty amp rig and you are used to 50 amps,  the answer to your question is:

NOT WELL.  It is kinda like going back to using an Out House when you are used to a Luxury suite.

 

We got to experience that wonderful experience when we Volunteered at  Park that only had 30 amp--

and they {forgot} to tell us.  In the summertime.  In Texas.  East Texas.  Humidity.

Don't think we are going back there.  

 

You are constantly turning off the A/C  then turn on the Microwave.  Then off the Micro and on with the AC.

 

We lived through it, but figured out how SPOILED we were.  

[lockmup68]

http://www.progressiveindustries.net/cheater-box-adt-230

cheater box will work most of the time. You can also use a hybrid inverter and battery bank to make up the difference. This video shows a good explaination on how they run AC on a 15 amp connection with a hybrid inverter and battery bank and solar.

http://www.technomadia.com/2016/06/running-an-rv-ac-off-solar-batteries-and-a-hybrid-boosting-inverter/

 

[Dutch_12078]

That cheater box will not work when one leg is plugged into a 15/20 amp code required GFCI outlet. The GFCI will trip...

[Ray,IN]

3 hours ago, Dutch_12078 said:

That cheater box will not work when one leg is plugged into a 15/20 amp code required GFCI outlet. The GFCI will trip...

It sure doesn't work in old CG's where the "electrician" tapped into the 30A receptacle to wire the 15A receptacle either. You only discover that after-the-fact. 

[Dutch_12078]

Good point, Ray. That too...

[acampingwewillgo]

Interesting topic and my only input would be this.....I'm a stickler for keeping my eye on voltage into the RV, although I seldom use my Hughes Auto Former. We have a 50 amp motor home with a residential refer and we frequent many Thousand Trail Parks(older wiring). We have, several times run both 15,000 btu Carrier roof top airs along with the fridge on 30 amp with little to no effect on dangerously low volts. Just an observation on my Part, I'm sure a lot depends on exactly where your pedestal is in a string on Pedestals but as stated, it's been possible in several different parks.

[Solo18]

I have a 32' Class C with 30 amps and only one AC.  I have never had any problems running it while operating the microwave and the TV, and my water heater does just fine on propane and takes only 5 minutes to reheat.  I suppose I could try running everything while turning on a hairdryer, but I see no sense it in.

I suppose two AC units would be nice when it is 90+ outside, but the one I have works well most of the time, and I seldom stay where it is over 90 for very long.  My AC is ducted, and very, very occasionally during the day, I will turn off the bedroom vents, but that is about all.

Really, it is easy to live with 30 amps and not at all like going back to an "outhouse" after having a full bathroom!!

[Pat & Pete]

We utilize our Hughes autoformer every time we plug into 30 Amp . It seems to give us that little extra when we need it . No outhouse required .