Paypal’s horrifying new User Agreement lets the company robocall and autotext users at will

[RV_]

Excerpt:

 

"Even though PayPal recently agreed to fork over $25 million in fines for deceptive business practices, it seems that the online payments company is up to its old tricks yet again.

 

Ahead of its planned split from eBay, PayPal is planning to roll out a new terms of service agreement for its customers which would allow the company to pepper its userbase with robocalls and text messages. What’s more, the updated terms of service would allow PayPal to contact users at either their designated phone number or even an undisclosed number PayPal managed to obtain through other means. Set to go into effect on July 1, PayPal’s updated user agreement is not an opt-in type of deal, which makes it all the more worrisome.

 

The updated user agreement is up on PayPal’s website for all to see.

It reads in part:

You consent to receive autodialed or prerecorded calls and text messages from PayPal at any telephone number that you have provided us or that we have otherwise obtained. We may place such calls or texts to (i) notify you regarding your account; (ii) troubleshoot problems with your account (iii) resolve a dispute; (iv) collect a debt; (v) poll your opinions through surveys or questionnaires, (vii) contact you with offers and promotions; or (viii) as otherwise necessary to service your account or enforce this User Agreement, our policies, applicable law, or any other agreement we may have with you.

…

If a telephone number provided to us is a mobile telephone number, you consent to receive SMS or text messages at that number. We won’t share your phone number with third parties for their purposes without your consent, but may share your phone numbers with our Affiliates or with our service providers, such as billing or collections companies, who we have contracted with to assist us in pursuing our rights or performing our obligations under this User Agreement, our policies, applicable law, or any other agreement we may have with you. You agree these service providers may also contact you using autodialed or prerecorded calls and text messages, as authorized by us to carry out the purposes we have identified above, and not for their own purposes. Standard telephone minute and text charges may apply if we contact you.

 

If PayPal needs to get ahold of users to resolve account issues or to collect a debt, by all means, they should be able to call away. But unsolicited phone calls and text messages regarding promotions and company surveys is completely absurd and terribly concerning.

 

Again, the user agreement is not opt-in and provides no room for users to opt-out. On the contrary, PayPal notes in bold capital letters that if you’re not on board with the new agreement, you’re welcome to close up your PayPal account completely:

 

“IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE AMENDED USER AGREEMENT, PRIVACY POLICY OR ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY, YOU MAY CLOSE YOUR ACCOUNT BEFORE JULY 1, 2015 AND YOU WILL NOT BE BOUND BY THE AMENDED TERMS.”

 

The article is here: http://bgr.com/2015/06/02/paypal-user-agreement-robocall-robodial-autotext-text/

[Aggie79-82a]

Just closed my account. Thanks for the post.

[Jack Mayer]

I'll wait it out and see if they change things....but I'll close my account if they do not.....

[Biker56]

I just changed my phone number in account to a made up one, not even close to my area.

They can call and send all the text they want to it.

They can contact me via email if needed. Or USPS.

[Jim & Alice]

I'm gonna wait to see what changes. We can more easily live without Paypal, than we desire to increase our phone spam.

JIm

[RV_]

I emailed them asking if they were going to have an opt out, and, failing that, to please send me directions on how to demand removal of all my information from their servers and terminate my account. I'll publish their answer here.

[LindaH]

I changed my phone number on my Paypal account to my Verizon tablet. Let them go ahead and send me robocalls and/or texts!

[Kirk W]

Pay Pal is probably going to be easily intimidated into changing things. This just confirms my decision that I don't need one of their accounts.

 

Here is another publication & author with a pretty similar view. The Washington Post

[hiljoball]

They will have a problem with that policy in Canada - recent legislation implemented this spring requires ALL companies to provide opt-out from such marketing.practices

 

John

[DJW]

We have all text blocked on our phones even from Verizon and do not have a valid phone number listed in our account so it should be interesting to see how this plays out. I am guessing the folks on e-bay will take a big hit. I only buy on e-bay so not sure how that will effect that.

 

Dennis

[Kirk W]

Not everyone seems to agree with the panic mongers who are sensationalizing the Paypal policy. I suspect that most of those who are responding have never actually read the entire contract that they sign for most/any of the places that they do business or read all of most license or user agreements on the internet....

 

Here we have a very different view of the entire issue.

Sensationalizing Paypal’s User Agreement

[TXiceman]

I have refused to use PayPal for several years now due to their business practices.

 

Ken

[justRich]

 

Not everyone seems to agree with the panic mongers who are sensationalizing the Paypal policy. I suspect that most of those who are responding have never actually read the entire contract that they sign for most/any of the places that they do business or read all of most license or user agreements on the internet....

 

Here we have a very different view of the entire issue.

Sensationalizing Paypal’s User Agreement

 

The view in that link is definitely overlooking many, many aspects.

If I provide PayPal with content, such as one of my many copyrighted photographs, that content is NOT released to PayPal.

Yet their terms state that they now own it.

I'm sorry. That's pretty close to being theft in my view.

 

Facebook has a very similar policy. When you post a photo on Facebook, they own it.

I appreciate the warning on PayPal.

[Ronbo]

I just changed my number to Verizon's number

[skp51443]

Keep in mind that they can use not only the number that you provided to them but any number they can connect with you. So while you changed the number they still have the old one stored as well as access to any e-mail that passed through their system or past listings there. On top of that they can use any of the other resources available to folks when trying to connect with someone they have limited information on to find any phone numbers associated with you.

 

I'm not happy about this but I'm taking a wait and see attitude, once things have shaken out a bit I'll give it a more serious look. Only thing I need them for is ebay and once the two split I'm sure ebay will have other methods.

[docj]

I have refused to use PayPal for several years now due to their business practices.

 

Ken

 

X2 Having dealt with them as a merchant I don't want anything to do with them. They are a horrid company to work with.

[Kirk W]

Rich, I didn't say that I like them, as I have never had an account with them and have no plans to get one, only that I really don't think that the change is nearly as great as most are saying and that I doubt that it is all that unique. I still doubt that most respondents to this issue have ever read most of the details of the most contracts that they use. Many of us would be appalled if we did so and this is no exception. Worse, perhaps but somehow I doubt that they are completely alone in their policy. The media and some of their readers just love to slant things in an effort to gain more readers and notoriety. That even happens on internet forums....

[justRich]

. . .most respondents to this issue have (n)ever read most of the details of the most contracts that they use.. . .

Very true.

Thus the reason and justification for a shocking headline. It is a competitive world.

If one wants to be heard, one must sometimes shout.

 

Example: imagine that great sunset shot that you posted on Facebook.

Six months later you see it printed on shopping bags from Nordstrom. Your image was sold by Facebook to an ad agency and used for commercial purposes.

Yep. . .you gave away the farm.

 

Not saying that it will happen.

But the unexpected can happen.

[RV_]

And we all know no one here has ever taken snipes at other members disguised as unrelated comments. Well, maybe a few here on SKPs.

 

I know one thing for a fact. We in counseling had to deal with teaching what the real meaning of projection is. Put simply, even during sex, we cannot read the mind of another. Body language, sure. So when someone wants to interpret intent or motive,where none negative or positive have been given, they look to the only mind whose motive they can read, their own!

 

When someone accuses you of being a liar, and you have never lied to that person, or anyone they might know, they just told you they will lie to you and likely have.

 

If someone accuses you of cheating them, and you never have, they bear careful watching as they are cheats themselves.

 

Never defend yourself to them in public or private. Just ask them why they would say such a thing? Or walk away. They need a defense from us to make us skip over thinking it through, so we miss their revelation about what they are because of being angry and defensive.

 

People tell us what they are if we but listen. If one cherry picks articles that agree with their agenda but skips 99%that disagree they will pick out the one they think works. If they rarely read links, depending on the excerpts to give them all and make assumptions about the details, they will assume all others do the same and cherry pick the excerpt too. Or think theirs will stand, because that's what they would do.

 

The only thing I can say is that if one comes into an active thread and instead of agreeing or honestly disagreeing, only have innuendo, and wild claims of exaggerations and agendas, could they be telling us more about themselves than they realize?

 

So if someone is always accusing someone of pretending to expertise they don't have, what would that tell us?

 

If someone is always making derogatory comments about higher education?

 

I just think that claptrap is, as claptrap does. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/claptrap

 

It is a certainty!

[RV_]

I received an answer today to my email to PayPal. Above I said I was going to wait and see and will reread the EULA and privacy policies when they implement it and see.

 

Here's the letter less my full name:

 

Dear Derek,


"My name is April, a Products and Site Support Specialist.

Yes, we are making a number of changes to our user agreement and privacy policy as PayPal separates from eBay. For example, the privacy policy describes PayPal’s sharing of account information with eBay and other third parties for purposes of fraud prevention and risk management, customer service, shipping and legal compliance. As has always been the case, third parties will not be able to use this information for their marketing purposes without your express consent.

We share data with third parties as stated in our privacy policy, such as in accordance with applicable law or with our customers’ permission. We do not rent or sell our customers’ information to third parties.

If you still want to close your PayPal account, we respect your decision. Here’s how to close your PayPal account:

1. Log in to your PayPal account.
2. Click the Profile icon next to "Log out."
3. Click Close your account under "Account options."
4. Choose up to 3 reasons why you want to close your account and enter any additional information.
5. Click Continue.
6. Click Close Account.

Here's what happens when you close your account:
• Any unpaid money requests are automatically canceled.
• You lose any unused redemption codes or coupons.

The security of your PayPal account is our top priority. In case you need further assistance, please let us know. You can also reach us at 1-888-221-1161 / 1-402-935-2050 during these hours:

4:00 AM PT to 10:00 PM PT, Monday- Friday.
6:00 AM PT to 8:00 PM PT, Saturday & Sunday

Thank you for choosing PayPal.

Sincerely,
April
PayPal Consumer Support"

[Ropeshaft]

I have used PayPal for years and I continue to use it frequently for buying and selling. I have never had a problem with them and I feel the convenience it provides is worth the fee they charge. I have no plans to discontinue using their service until something better comes along.

[DJW]

I only use it for buying off E-bay. I figure if this thing goes south for PayPal that the E-bay folks will come up with another plan to get the sellers paid. Otherwise E-bay's use will go way down as not to many folks will be giving out their CC numbers to Bob for that old laptop.

 

Dennis

[docj]

It appears that even PayPal is sensitive to what its customers think about its policies: http://www.techtimes.com/articles/58464/20150606/paypal-shifts-gear-will-allow-customers-to-opt-out-of-robocalls-following-criticism.htm

[RV_]

Good info Joel, thanks. Looks like there has been an overwhelming response from customers, both buyers and sellers who use PayPal. And it looks like they are slowly backpedaling. Privacy issues are becoming foremost in our minds today.

 

I have used PayPal for years, as many of my favorite companies also maintain a discount presence there. All they need to do is back up a bit more and I'll be happy to stay. It appears from all the articles that PP is getting feedback from more than just me and others writing the articles. PP is a tech industry cornerstone. Their separation from eBay may be their downfall. Most of us know that the kinds of affiliate questionnaires etc. are sold today. While I like PP only for eBay, I do ten times the business on Amazon.com, and don't need to jump through the PayPal hoops. To some it a necessity. To others who don't mind robocalls. I take no issue with them.

 

Excerpt from your article Joel:

 

"The new user agreement states that users may receive robocalls or text messages from PayPal on any listed number, whether PayPal obtained the number directly from customers or through other means.

 

While such calls or messages sound justified in some of the listed cases, such as communicating something related to your account, troubleshooting problems with the account, resolving a dispute or collecting a debt, there are also other instances listed that don't sound quite right.

 

PayPal's new user agreement says the company may also contact users to poll their opinions though various questionnaires or surveys, tempt them with offers and promotions, or "as otherwise necessary."

 

Unsolicited robocalls are not even legal unless a company has written or oral consent from consumers, as per FTC rules. At the same time, federal regulators are also expected to vote on new rules soon, making it easier for consumers to escape telemarketing and robocalling."

 

I think I get enough of those already.

 

Dave,

Thanks, but if folks genuinely have enough in their lives, there is always room for everyone. A core principle of the founders of SKPs. And core to Kaye's articles and persona in person. Cathy and Bud, as well as their kids carry that forward. Unless that has changed I doubt that kind of pettiness is what they have in mind as their online representation of the wonderful club members SKPs actually has. We used to have a tradition of SKP hugs, and a deep respect for our fellow RVrs. You'll note I only respond with facts. I acknowledge his snipes exactly as given but don't return them. Just marvel that there seems to be an assumption that the rest of us here are looking to find a leader. Those are the owners of the forums, and the company.

 

So let's send genuine SKP hugs to Kirk! He must need them.

 

Safe travels everyone!

[dswhite]

April didn't address what they will do with our personal in formation.