Paypal’s horrifying new User Agreement lets the company robocall and autotext users at will

[RV_]

I know ds,

Her answer sounded like what we get from our representatives here when we ask them to represent us! Those of us who are stakeholders as PayPal customer are all watching closely now. I, for one, have a great amount of trepidation if my bank decides they can use my information any way they can legally.

 

I've used my PayPal account maybe three times in the last two years. I've made ~thirty purchases on Amazon and many more than with PayPal with Newegg and other vendors using our designated online only credit card. I only used PayPal on eBay. So for me, if they don't address these issues to my satisfaction, it won't inconvenience me in the least to drop them.

 

I believe they must have mistaken me for someone who needs to put money in because I have no credit in the real world. My cards are covered, so it is their move for some of us. I really am concerned but don't expect others to agree for whatever reasons. Information is power. I believe in spreading around good source info.

[justRich]

It appears that even PayPal is sensitive to what its customers think about its policies: http://www.techtimes.com/articles/58464/20150606/paypal-shifts-gear-will-allow-customers-to-opt-out-of-robocalls-following-criticism.htm

They still intend to "do-it-to-you" with the automated pre-recorded robot phone calls. The only change is that now you will have an opt-out option for the robo-calls.

The thing is, will they sell your phone number to other firms?

[skp51443]

I've read what I can find several times and I have the impression they won't sell the e-mail or phone number that you give them to just anyone but the details of what they consider an "affiliate" are pretty wide for who they will share with.

 

I can find nothing on what they can or will be doing with the information they "have otherwise obtained" so that is wide open.

 

On the bright side it looks like there has been enough user unhappiness that Paypal is dialing back what they were planning to do.

[RV_]

They can "not share our info" but accept the recordings from companies to robocall us from PayPal with third party ads and comply perfectly with their new privacy policies as one example that comes to mind. But I'm neither a conspiracy theorist or a pollyanna. What remains to be seen is what they tell us now. For example an opt out of all use. And robocalls can, and have, been used by phishing campaigns before email was as popular as today. I remember getting unsolicited ads on fax machines in the 80's.

 

I'm not going to nit pick it. I don't need them personally and it might be different for others, but we did online purchases long before we used PayPal. Still do the majority without PayPal just our designated online card that we monitor and have caught once being used. CNX it and life went on. We never use opur debit online but it was involved in the Home Depot and Target breaches.

 

But occasionally, not often something is available on eBay that is not elsewhere. The vendors there might want to consider taking direct credit cards. which I don't like doing. I am in a dispute now over an unresolved LED light bulb purchase for our RV. We got one already from another vendor.

 

All PayPal has to do is assure opt out of any and all sharing or live or robo contacts for offers or other non initiated by me, save a once a month email for my account statement. My goodness they already pestered me in emails about linking my bank account directly to them?? Glad I did not. I can change a credit card. Changing accounts and bank is a bit more imposing on my time.

 

Let's see what they do or do not do.

[theeyres]

This will be interesting. I sell my arts/crafts several times a year and have found PayPal's free swipe card thingy that let's me charge sales at no cost to me (that means no percentage points as long as I'm not a commercial seller) invaluable. I would guess something like 50% - 75% of sales are charges and PayPal is one of the few that let me do that without huge percentage points. I would hate to loose that. So I'm sticking with them for now. We'll see what the future brings...

[RV_]

Earl,

I'd do the same if I sold there.

 

Dave,

[Kirk W]

This will be interesting. I sell my arts/crafts several times a year and have found PayPal's free swipe card thingy that let's me charge sales at no cost to me (that means no percentage points as long as I'm not a commercial seller) invaluable. I would guess something like 50% - 75% of sales are charges and PayPal is one of the few that let me do that without huge percentage points. I would hate to loose that. So I'm sticking with them for now. We'll see what the future brings...

You sound pretty sensible to me. The media make their money by numbers of readers and since bad news sells best most any of them will tend to make anything that they report as sensational as possible. The best approach for a satisfied user is to examine things carefully and make your own decision.

[StarDreamers.us]

What a mess! The folks at PayPal must be X government officials.

 

Safe Travels!

[justRich]

This will be interesting. I sell my arts/crafts several times a year and have found PayPal's free swipe card thingy that let's me charge sales at no cost to me (that means no percentage points as long as I'm not a commercial seller) invaluable. I would guess something like 50% - 75% of sales are charges and PayPal is one of the few that let me do that without huge percentage points. I would hate to loose that. So I'm sticking with them for now. We'll see what the future brings...

Obviously there are many useful applications for PayPal.

I wonder if the privacy issue could be addressed with one of those Walmart throw-away type phones, as opposed to using one's personal phone?

[RV_]

I use it only on eBay, yet despite all the hoopla about hat they are going to do, I've found their emails intrusive suddenly starting a few months back, such that, especially the ones about linking my bank account to PayPal, that I called them after sending the offending emails, which had a link to go through to link them. I was sure these were phishing emails. The people I talked to via mail told me to report it to some PayPal email address specifically for reporting phishing or other possible attacks. They refused/were unable/unwilling to answer my question if the emails were from them. I finally got hold of a rep by phone and they didn't seem to know what I was talking about either. I told them I was getting emails with a link asking me to link up my bank account with PayPal.

 

I finally found out that it was PayPal. Heaven forbid there was a money issue. Anyway it left a bad taste in my mouth where I switched from cautious user for the undeniable convenience on eBay, back to not liking to deal with them.

 

But personal feelings aside, the "New Independent PayPal" is moving in a different direction in how they deal with us buyers I am not sure I like.

 

In the old days of tech, ten years ago, most eBay sellers did take credit cards. That has dwindled to few and far between. I'd postulate that we might see a return to a majority eBay folks offering direct payments.

 

Kirk,

So far you've told us you have no experience with PayPal, yet have insisted on acting like you are a designated judge judging which posts sound sensible and coming back to how you don't read my posts. But here you are criticizing the thread as sensationalism. For one who proudly proclaims you don't read my posts your reactions here, and in other posts, are to post to say which folks sound sensible repeating your sensationalism where those of us with PayPal accounts ARE concerned.

 

I believe all the adults here are quite capable of deciding which posts we choose to find sensible or not, even if we agree with you, most of us don't need a daddy to interpret for us what they admit they know nothing about.

 

I, for one, would appreciate your contributing to the topic. This behavior is odd. You repeatedly criticize my thread as sensationalism, then tell how you don't read my posts. Perhaps you need to say that you don't read my posts, but sure read my thread titles, and contribute nothing but negative comments or positive to any you find remotely capable of turning to the agenda for the thread. See, unlike he said/she said all our posts are here for all to see.

 

So if you don't read my posts, have nothing to add because you've never had a PayPal account, and have sat making judgments in comments about which posts make sense to you or not, and your comments are about the posters, with nothing on the topic itself, what exactly are you trying to accomplish here. That is a fair question, no attack. I am sure someone will PM you with this, not me.

 

For one who claims not to read my posts, my threads seem to have an inordinate attraction for you. Don't worry, if I post in your threads, a I do, they will be on topic, and I will have no agenda to push.

 

Yours appears to be to try to poison the well you think is restricted to my thread. Is that what you are doing? (question not attack) If so you might consider that it is a community well. You can't poison only the well water one person drinks.

 

 

I'm at a loss. Oh you can continue this nonsense all you like. Dave called it right as anyone here knows. As for me, I am for inclusiveness and SKP hugz and will continue to post what I might think is useful to all or some or one here. And continue to accept all as fellow SKPs even you.

 

And as I have lately, agree or disagree, will post as an honest broker in your threads when the topic interests me. Feel free. I just ask you to stay on topic. And no, I won't report your posts as divisive and intentional. You're displaying what you are without any push from me.

 

As for me? Can't please everyone.

 

Safe online shopping!

[Lou Schneider]

I had a Paypal account many years ago, which I've since closed out of privacy concerns. If I have to use PayPal for an eBay or another purchase, I just log in as a Guest and enter my credit card information for that one time use.

[RV_]

Lou!

Great to see ya! I hope you are well. I'm coming to the same conclusion. I'll have to try the guest idea. Thanks.

[s106300]

I have used Pay Pal sparingly over the years, mostly in paying for transactions where the selling parties only used Pay Pal. I frankly have never had a single problem. I would promptly close my account if I got bombarded with spam, texts, and robo-calls in excess of what I already have to put up with. However, I am generally convinced that the American consumer system will save the day: if a company's business practices irritate the consumer, they will withdraw their business and the company's profits/stock prices suffer. Guess what? They modify their practices and get back in comptition with other companies smart enough to respect consumer's wishes. I think we have all seen some major company "oh WHOOPS" moves that resulted in quick back peddling to reinstate previous policies. Ya gotta love the Internet for spreading the news and the capital system that makes sure these little "checks and balances" stay in place.

[RV_]

Let's hope so Ca. Dreamers, I like the services too.

 

However a banking or funds transfer biz like PayPal must earn my trust and that was hard won for me. If they do not back up and regroup, to the extent that they do not reserve the right to spam my phone in any way, voice or text robocalls, and/or spam my emails with "Offers" then I will have to take my biz elsewhere. But that is me. I do not do FaceCrook either for many of the same reasons. Nor Google or Android save my Wife's phone which will be gone as the last Google privacy policy item in our world. I really hated giving up Picasa, Google Maps, and Google Earth will never take up major portions of our storage space again. I am a full MS Windows 8 soon 10 Desktops, Tablets, and Phones. Right now we are only missing one phone which will be replaced once we find if my Nokia Lumia 822 in fact is completely Windows phone 10 compatible. It is stated and I got the update for 8.1 denim so I am confident.

 

My choices are very different than the norm. I prefer not to give up any privacy or rights to get a few dollar program free. I do not overlook the EULAs including Privacy policies and /or TOAs. They are much shorter than the inch thick federal codes I had to know backwards and forwards to store, transport, and operate ranges, in the conduct of Weapons firing and weapons munitions storage and transport over US roads and highways. And like those codes they are written in ninth grade English if that is your native tongue, others in other countries I would surmise are much the same.

 

Staying with it and accepting their terms is fine if it does not matter to another. One man's poison etc. But the facts are indisputable, and are there for each to make their own informed decision, when a privacy policy is about to change.

 

I am not against any of the companies I mentioned. I am sure, that as of today, for computer OS' and Programs, as well as Phone OS' and in Apple's case where their iPads are different than the tablets and desktop OS, that Apple and Microsoft are the least intrusive and most private and secure ecosystems today. Were I of an Apple bent and took that fork back in the 80's I would be as good with them as I was with Windows and MSDOS.

 

Today IMO only Apple and MS make hard and software for sale as their core biz, not information gathering of our private data and search engine analysis for resale as their core biz. Google is a behemoth, and don't sell anything that I know except the free items like Android and Chrome software. They failed at their own phones and are doing fiber now but they may have a leg up on Internet and cell services with LEO satellites. One may be of the opinion that they prefer the free stuff as long as they don't have to pay a few bucks for it.

 

So I, like the Apple folks who prefer them, stick with all MS and Third party MS software from the open source initiative and commercial vendors I trust like Intuit for my Quicken accounting software, Hauppage Win TV, Pandora and iHeart radio, etc.

 

And some of the Windows Apps like my two newest, Wunderlist and Flipboard are in my arsenal without breaching privacy. So resisting doesn't mean I can't play as well. I find many of the folks that do like the intrusive things in my playgrounds too, like here.

 

You see the EULA for any software from Google, falls under their Privacy policy, which amounts to IP theft but most do not care. I am experimenting with Ello, a new social media experiment that is unique and does not violate my privacy. However I am not a social media type. But it like Browsing Ello, and reading

[DJW]

I received an e-mail from Pay Pal today with an updated version of my new privacy agreement. All of the bad stuff as listed in the original post has been revoked/removed. It did not take long for them to back peddle out of the new rules

 

Dennis

[Ray,IN]

They already pushed me too far, as of 12 minutes ago my account is closed. It's their business to run as they choose, it's my money to use as I choose. PayPal was a convenience, nothing more. Others options exist that do not spread my personal information or force me to accept terms of use, to which I will not submit.

[chirakawa]

Others options exist that do not spread my personal information or force me to accept terms of use, to which I will not submit.

 

Yes, you can pay in cash and in person. Otherwise, you will agree to terms of service for checking accounts or credit cards or any other type payment service.

[RV_]

Hey guys and gals! They already backed off it! Go here on another SKP thread!

http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=118709&hl=

[Ray,IN]

 

Yes, you can pay in cash and in person. Otherwise, you will agree to terms of service for checking accounts or credit cards or any other type payment service.

You're correct, and I only agree to what I can live with, not what every company demands.

[Medico]

I have not run my online business for several years, so I very seldom use PayPal any more. I always thought PayPal's fees were high, especially when I also had to pay eBay fees when I sold an item. Now that they have split, I wonder what will happen to those fees.

 

With the new privacy agreement, even with the changes shown above, I doubt I will be using PayPal much. In fact for the first time in many years I do not have a balance in my PayPal account, and I'm not worried about that.

[edatlanta]

Change your phone number to 202-456-1414.

[bigjim]

Sure lets flood the White House to add to distraction from really important things that people would like to communicate to them. But let's not flood Congress who writes the laws. Irony or sarcasm, you choose.

 

Someone here advocated giving a fake phone number. I bet if that number corresponds to a real persons phone number I bet they will love you. I understand your thinking but I assume you did not consider the possible results for that person. I sure would not want to inflict that on someone.