Closures and travel restrictions due to Corona Virus

[NDBirdman]

1 hour ago, hemsteadc said:

And it's the media's fault.  Which is worse, believing the medical science, or your attitude?

THANK-YOU!!  Yes, the media is blowing it out of proportion.  It brings them $$ by attracting more of an audience!  And if you don't want to turn this political, let it drop.

My attitude is just that, MY beliefs.  Ya'll put your beliefs up, I will put mine up, simple as that.  NOWHERE did I say it is not bad.  NOWHERE did I say you could not believe whatever YOU (all those complaining about my beliefs, not just you hems) want to believe.  NOWHERE did I say don't take precautions.  YES, I believe in medical science, atleast those without a political agenda.

I apologize to those thinking I'm trying to shove my beliefs down your throat, I'm not BUT, don't try to shove your's down mine, I will spit it back up and not nicely.

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, docj said:

You're free to believe what you wish, but I hope others, with more open minds, pay attention to the request for social distancing.  If done effectively social distancing has the potential to reduce the "rate" at which people are infected. It won't necessarily reduce the number of cases but it will spread them out over time so they don't overload the health care system as much.

There is no need to panic or to hoard toilet paper but doing those things is no more foolish than it is to deny that the problem is real.What is needed most is logical thinking and good judgment. This isn't a political ploy nor a world wide conspiracy. There have always been those who  choose not to believe and this is no different. If most of us choose to take all reasonable precautions, progress in controlling COVID-19 sould soon begin to become evident. Once things are resolved, the doubters will consider our success to be proof that they were right. Let all reasonable folks follow the recommendations and then smile when we hear "I told you!"

Edited March 16, 2020 by Kirk W

[Kirk W]

4 hours ago, fpmtngal said:

 Do I cancel all but the maintenance one and then make a quick 2-3 day trip over for it, returning to Nevada and heading northeast from there?

Isn't it possible to get the maintenance done where you are or along your route? For the medical & dental you may have little choice.

[Zulu]

21 minutes ago, NDBirdman said:

I believe in medical science, at least those without a political agenda.

For example?

[NDBirdman]

10 minutes ago, Zulu said:

For example?

turn on CNN, MSNBC, etc

[Zulu]

33 minutes ago, NDBirdman said:

turn on CNN, MSNBC, etc

I meant which ones DON'T have a political agenda?

[richfaa]

I will go with CDC information on the outbreak over social media experts.

[Kirk W]

This was posted on the Escapees Facebook page.

Quote

Twelve years ago we couch surfed with a wonderful, retired art professor in a small village in northern Italy. We have remained good friends. I wrote him and asked for his views and experience about this pandemic. Some people learn more easily from personal reports than scientific information. Because of that, I decided to post an edited version of his response.

Ciao Carole,

I too was very skeptical in the beginning and thought that the restrictions made were inconvenient and exaggerated. I came around when a friend in Milan was hospitalized and nearly died of the virus. Obviously when it hits home you think twice. While the virus was restricted to the north of Italy, my village seemed like a fortunate island. Then one of our citizens, on return from a party in Milan, was hospitalized and we suddenly realized we were a part of the panic. His family was hospitalized as well, then the two doctors that visited him and had told him not to worry.

This virus spreads like wildfire and although I can understand the American people's reaction to the problem, they have no idea how vulnerable they are. Many may have it without knowing. I too was tricked. The virus is serious due to its vitality in spreading. One can be positive but not know it. The incubation period is from 6 to 14 days (some say even 27 days). WHEN YOU GET THE SYMPTOMS IT IS TOO LATE - your family could have been infected, your neighbors and friends as well. Believe me, living in a small community like yours, this pandemic could be LETHAL. Sorry for being so blunt but one has to be in these times.

In China, anyone that had come into contact with the virus was put in massive isolated camps and tested regularly. Here in Italy, the government's reaction was a bit late and now we are all forced to live together in strict quarantine in their homes. We can go out only for absolute necessities. People are now being arrested if found outside without a permit or valid reason. We all have to fill in a form of auto certification provided by the government explaining why we are on the streets. Of course, everyone is suffering from cabin fever but there's no way out.

For many vulnerable people, especially us elders, the result of getting the virus means being isolated in an ICU unit with a tube down one's lungs to breathe. The death rate is very high for older people and in some cases where there are too many patients and too few beds or space, the older people are left to themselves so that the younger can be saved.

Please take this situation seriously and ask your friends and relatives to do the same.

Stay well and keep in touch.

Fond regards, Leo

 

[trailertraveler]

4 hours ago, Kirk W said:

There is no need to panic or to hoard toilet paper but doing those things is no more foolish than it is to deny that the problem is real.What is needed most is logical thinking and good judgment.

Unfortunately, it seems that panic may have already set in for many. We just went to a Walmart in Bradenton, Fl. The shelves were virtually bare of many items. Employees were handing out toilet paper, Two four pack limit. Th e meat shelves were empty except for chitterlings and sweetbreads. The only frozen vegetables were brussel sprouts and corn on the cob. In the pharmacy section all the cold and flu medications were gone.

With the limited storage capacity and refrigerator/freezer space in our RV stock piling for weeks or a month is not very feasible.

[agesilaus]

21 hours ago, Zulu said:

Wrong. Compared with seasonal flu, COVID-19 has a much higher death rate, especially those older than 60. Also, the is no vaccine to prevent COVID-19 and no treatment after you get it.

See Coronavirus Report from WHO (March 6) page 2, 2nd paragraph from the bottom. Seasonal flu has about a 0.1% death rate, coronavirus 3 - 4%.

First thing is: we don't know the death rate. If, as suspected 90% of people who get have no serious symptoms, that will reduce the death rate drastically. But imay still be higher than the seasonal flu.

 

Quote

A paper by four Chinese professors concludes that high temperature and high relative humidity significantly reduce the transmission of the Wuhan coronavirus. This conclusion is based on a study of all 100 Chinese cities with more than 40 cases of the virus.

The professors found that a one degree Celsius increase in temperature and a one percent increase in relative humidity lower “R” by 0.0383 and 0.0224, respectively. “R” is the effective reproductive number of the virus. As I understand it, if that number drops below 1.0, it means the virus is dying off faster than it is reproducing.

The authors note that their findings are “consistent with the fact that the high temperature and high humidity significantly reduce the transmission of influenza.” They conclude that “the arrival of summer and rainy season in the northern hemisphere can effectively reduce the transmission of the COVID-19.”

The study is also consistent with the findings of a paper I wrote about here. That study looked at average temperatures in areas across the globe that the virus was hitting at the time. The Chinese study is a city-by-city comparison in the same country that controls for population density and GDP per capita.

One degree C is a little less than 2 deg F.

But the wuhan virus may not be with us that long. Right now if you look at a global map of the virus occurances you will see that the worse outbreaks all are around the same latitude band. China, Italy, in the US New York state to Washington state are all in that band. And they have cooler temps. People wonder why it has not hit Africa and South America as much, they are all hot and humid. Here in this section of Florida where the temps are already in the mid 80's and the humidity is high most of the year, all reported cases have been imported from other places. Like Flu and SARs this virus may burn out as soon as the temps increase as Spring moves on. All this panic and hysteria for nothing.

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by agesilaus

[Zulu]

20 minutes ago, agesilaus said:

First thing is: we don't know the death rate. If, as suspected 90% of people who get have no serious symptoms, that will reduce the death rate drastically. But it may still be higher than the seasonal flu.

I believe it's 80%. But, you're right . . . it may be higher or it may be lower. We don't know.

 

20 minutes ago, agesilaus said:

But the wuhan virus may not be with us that long. Right now if you look at a global map of the virus occurances you will see that the worse outbreaks all are around the same latitude band. China, Italy, in the US New York state to Washington state are all in that band. And they have cooler temps. People wonder why it has not hit Africa and South America as much, they are all hot and humid. Here in this section of Florida where the temps are already in the mid 80's and the humidity is high most of the year, all reported cases have been imported from other places. Like Flu and SARs this virus may burn out as soon as the temps increase as Spring moves on. 

That would be great if it's true, but it may also be wishful thinking. And even so, it may come roaring back in fall. Maybe.

Since we don't know, let's follow the CDC's advice. The name of the game is to flatten that curve.

 

20 minutes ago, agesilaus said:

All this panic and hysteria for nothing.

Look, this pandemic has some powerful trickle down effects on an international scale. It freaks people out and rightly so. You can catch it from people who appear perfectly normal. That's creepy.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Zulu

[agesilaus]

If you can explain the toilet paper and water mad rush as anything other than media fed hysteria, I'd like to see it. Diarrhea is not even being reported as one of the symptoms. Our local supermarket is 100% cleaned out of ALL paper products, except paper plates. I understand that in two days they cleared $1,500,000 more than their normal sales on Thanksgiving week.

And do people really think that public utilities are going to collapse?? Water plants in particular.

[pjstough]

Just now, agesilaus said:

If you can explain the toilet paper and water mad rush as anything other than media fed hysteria, I'd like to see it. Diarrhea is not even being reported as one of the symptoms. Our local supermarket is 100% cleaned out of ALL paper products, except paper plates. I understand that in two days they cleared $1,500,000 more than their normal sales on Thanksgiving week.

And do people really think that public utilities are going to collapse?? Water plants in particular.

I dont believe I have seen one newscast that told people to buy a years worth of TP. Just like in the Midwest when they forecast a blizzard people go buy milk and bread.  It is just was people do.

[agesilaus]

LOL that's not how it works, they don't have to urge people to do it, they just report that TP was cleaned out at such and such a location. And the rush is on.

We have hurricanes down here, and people stock up on supplies. But TP is not one that was on anybody's main list. Water, bread, candles, matches and staples. Always plenty of TP on the shelves, along with paper towels etc.

[kb0zke]

Back to the original thread, New Mexico has closed ALL State parks for all purposes. Originally, the ban was just on camping, day use was permitted, but now even that is gone. The last I heard, Texas was still welcoming campers.

We're starting to plan our summer travels, and will be monitoring the various State websites for where we will be.

[bigjim]

1 hour ago, agesilaus said:

If you can explain the toilet paper and water mad rush

The hysteria is supplied by the individual interpetation of the information supplied.  No one has to get hysterical because someone gives you information.  The media would be vilified more if they did not do reporting on it at all.  I get frustrated with them at times but I would sure rather have them than not.  Even Fox can put out some factual information at times especially the local reporting but I sure miss Shepard Smith on there for instance.

pj is surely right.  I will never understand why they don't maintain a stock all along if they can.  I used to.  If I had more room I would keep up a stock of very basic supplies------including Tp

[trailertraveler]

If I understood the speech by the Governor of New York, he was encouraging people to go to parks, hike, get fresh air, exercise, etc. Entrance fees to the New York State Parks has been suspended. It is my understanding that UV light kills the corona virus so outdoor activities on sunny days with a high UV index should be relatively low risk.

Edited March 17, 2020 by trailertraveler

[Zulu]

4 minutes ago, trailertraveler said:

It is my understanding that UV light kills the corona virus

Nope. See Coronavirus: The fake health advice you should ignore (see #6).

[hemsteadc]

I don't understand how the media reporting what's happening is then blamed for what's happening. 

[2gypsies]

Trump said today that this might last into July/August so it's going to get worse rather than better anytime soon.  If it gets too bad I can see a lockdown except for emergencies as it's happening in San Francisco right now.  If so, RVers won't be able to travel around as planned.... better find a good spot and hunker down!

[sandsys]

1 hour ago, hemsteadc said:

I don't understand how the media reporting what's happening is then blamed for what's happening. 

Most of the media reports are simply fanning the flames of panic.

[sandsys]

52 minutes ago, 2gypsies said:

Trump said today that this might last into July/August so it's going to get worse rather than better anytime soon. 

And we should believe him because he always gets his facts correct, right? The facts I've been reading, from much more reliable sources, say it should all be done here in June.

[Zulu]

2 minutes ago, sandsys said:

And we should believe him because he always gets his facts correct, right? The facts I've been reading, from much more reliable sources, say it should all be done here in June.

Have a source?

[RV_]

The short version:

The long version, David Dunning who explained the phenomenon. Very applicable to the folks claiming they have their own experts/facts:

 

Carry on.

Edited March 17, 2020 by RV_

[RV_]

Humor aside, we are staying in and going out only for necessities. Fortunately we have lots of work to do on the house and all the paint, trim, and electronics to complete them without further trips. One downside to full timing when distancing from others is best is that you have to go into grocery stores more often.

We are taking the precautions as recommended. No panic, just a lot of sanitizing wipes, bleach mix, sanitizing hand wash and hand sanitizer gels. We bought these in January when we first heard. One of my past lives was as a Medical Lab Technologist in the AF for three years following my five years as a medic running sterile supply and filling in as a scrub tech. We made up the surgery packs and ultrasonically cleaned them, wrapped them in linen sealed with indicator tape that changed color when exposed in our industrial sized autoclave that three guys could climb in. We also included a packet of wrapped Thermophilus, a very heat resistant spore forming organism that outlasts all the rest in steam heat under intense pressure. Then incubating back then in the lab we used a blood agar petri dishes.

This Corona virus is easily liked on surfaces but not in the air and as droplets. Nor once you put it on your face, rub eyes and nose.

We have 15 days of Mountain house freeze dried meals for two (six five day for one boxes.) plus ten gallons of bottled water, two seven gallon water cans with spouts made of plastic we bought last week at WalMart. We had plenty of 91% alcohol, 70%, and even a couple of bottles of 50%. Our freezer is well stocked with about a month's worth of meats etc. We have three or four big first aid kits in metal big boxes and two plastic. Plenty of bottles of hand and body lotion, soap and detergents.

We have TP but also a dual nozzle bidet under our toilet seat. Just need a dry washcloth to dry after clean. We have one of these for under $50! https://www.amazon.com/s?k=bidet+toilet+seat+attachment&dc&crid=3078YFOWZWJ4J&qid=1584296796&rnid=2528832011&sprefix=Bidet%2Celectronics%2C210&ref=sr_nr_p_89_9

We plan to make old fashioned hankies if we can't get tissues that are also washed and reusable.

Bleach was the problem. None anywhere nor online. Then I remembered something, called home depot and asked if they had any more of the bleach concentrate and they did, a lot. See, no one thought to look in the garden department! So I bought two of these that make 20-30 gallons of regular bleach. https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-121-oz-Outdoor-Bleach-Cleaner-23948948211/203420866

Will be great for sanitizing and two relatively tiny gallon jugs make up to 60 gallons. I have a call in to Kik manufacturing in Canada to make sure there are no other chemicals in it that would make it unsafe to use in sanitizing potable water. Read the precautions on that concentrate. Perfect for RV space limitations. But I won't know about potable use until I hear back from them tomorrow.

Do the limitations and recommendations for distancing and sanitizing surfaces, hand washing and not touching your face until home. The virus has no politics, don't confuse politics with science. Let the experts docs and scientists tell us what we need to know to flatten the curve. Facts are facts and like Dr Dunning said . . . . https://www.bing.com/search?form=MOZLBR&pc=MOZI&q=David+Dunning+stupidity

Safe travels, really.

Edited March 17, 2020 by RV_