Class A Gasser

[NDBirdman]

Browsing the sale ads, I see (several) with Ford V10 gas engines say it's 362hp.   At the moment I'm not committed to a diesel or gas engine, I understand the many differences, power and torque, required maintenance, etc.  I can give pro's and con's all day long, worked as a mechanic most my adult life.  Saying that, I've been out of the loop for a few years and have never worked on these V10 engines.  What experience do y'all have, good/bad, mileage, pull a small 4x4 - 4-down or an enclosed trailer with motorcycles, under-powered or good, durability?  We're waiting for the covid crap to slow down and hopefully it does... eventually so we want to look at many options but mostly a set-up with or ability to set up solar and have an on-board generator.  (most our outings for now are, or were til we lost our camper, boon-docking away from the crowds)  For the weight of this motor-home, would this with a toad be a good combo?  How would a rig like this handle a toad going down steep grades?  Going up, just drop gears and enjoy the ride, going down, was too easy to have a gasser over-run it's RPMs, I'm getting too old to have white knuckles and smelling hot brakes.  I'm used to running commercial trucks and my won ton dully with engine/exhaust brakes.  These gas rigs don't have jakes of sorts, or do they?

As to our driving, I don't have a need to do speed limits so don't need a rocket ship, like to clip along on say, a hiway limit of 70-75, run around 65.  We like to take our time, we have no where to go fast.  Terran, we live in the plains states so fairly flat, most folks would call our ... hills... bumps in the road... LOL  BUT, we do go west between home (Norf Dakoota) and the suburbs of Seattle, WA, some of those roads have some steep up/down grades and will be traveling at times in the south-west low-lands and mountains.  Also, this RV will be for part time living as snow-birds.  We have come to the conclusion there's no way we would sell our SnBs.

Guess what I'm asking, would y'all feel comfortable with a V10 gasser, any know problems?

(have not decided on make/model/floor-plan yet, these are just) For example:

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2014-Tiffin-Motorhomes-Allegro-36-LA-5018377540

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2019-Entegra-Coach-EMBLEM-36U-5017497621

 

Thanks y'all!

Edited December 18, 2021 by NDBirdman

[Darryl&Rita]

Great engines, in both Ford and Dodge. They like to rev, but make good power. The fuel mileage won't be amazing, but then, diesels have lost mileage since all the emissions equipment was added.

[Kirk W]

9 hours ago, NDBirdman said:

Guess what I'm asking, would y'all feel comfortable with a V10 gasser, any know problems?

The best answer to your questions that I can give is to relate my experience. We bought a new, 36' class A that was on an early release 1999 F53 chassis with the 275 HP version of the Ford V-10. I then had a complete Banks performance package put on which added several things that Ford added with the 2000 upgrade to 310 HP. We kept that motorhome for 14 years, living fulltime in it for nearly 12 years. I drove it about 80k miles and nearly all of that we were towing a Honda CR-V. We began with a Ford Ranger and in year 2 changed to an AWD, CR-V that we towed for 8 years, followed by a FWD, CR-V for the last 4 years. In that time the engine and transmission were serviced per Ford recommendations but never had any repairs of any kind. The front seal on the differential was replaced in year 4 and the starter relay in year 6. I also replaced the plastic coolant reservoir due to cracking (myself) when it was about 10 years old. Those were the only mechanical repairs. 

Fuel mileage ranged from a high of 11.6 mpg to a low of 4 mpg, when looking at a single tank of fuel(70 gallons) and over all we generally for about 7 mpg under most conditions when averaged over 2 or 3 fueling stops. I don't have my records now but I think that it came to 6.9 for the total time that we owned it. It probably had less than 5k miles that were not towing. Climbing steep grades we could typically do pretty well so long as we were not caught behind something slower than us but if that happened we were slow the entire way. I found very few times that we were below second gear under any climbing situation with our 4 speed transmission and most cases on major highways could manage in third.

By experimenting I found that in relatively flat country it was most fuel efficient with the cruise set for 58 mph and if it got hilly then it did better set at about 62. I rarely got it above 65 for any reason and when I did it was only to pass. We found that in mountainous areas the diesel pushers would typically cover 100 miles in 15 - 20 minutes less than us, but didn't care. 

When we were shopping for a new class A to go fulltime in our original intention was to buy a similar sized diesel but due to budget limitations we stepped down to the F53 and saved about 40% in purchase costs and so avoided financing. If we were starting out again with the same available options, we would do pretty much the same as we did.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Kirk W

[Dutch_12078]

The 20 year old Ford V-10 in our 34' Class A has been hauling us and our RAV4 toad around nicely for the 8 years and ~31,400 miles we've owned it. Based on the previous owner's obsessively detailed maintenance records and our own experiences with it, the only engine repair of any significance has been the starter I replaced this past fall. I also replaced the mass air flow sensor a couple of years ago that was throwing a code, but at ~$60 for the part and 30 minutes of my labor, I don't know if that counts. Ford engineers very nicely located the MAF sensor in the air cleaner right at eye level within easy reach. Must have been done by mistake...

Oh, and when I say "obsessively detailed" maintenance records, from the previous owner's logs I can tell you when each of the bulbs in the bathroom bar light burned out by position, where the replacement was purchased, and which envelope has the receipts to prove it! I try to keep good maintenance records, but certainly nowhere near that level of detail!

[NDBirdman]

2 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Great engines, in both Ford and Dodge. They like to rev, but make good power. The fuel mileage won't be amazing, but then, diesels have lost mileage since all the emissions equipment was added.

The emissions killed most good engines.  We have a RAM with 6.7 diesel, I get 20-23 empty cruising down the hi-way, but with camper in tow we averaged 9mpg on level roads.  Our camper was fairly light, but when towing heavy equipment, I didn't bother to check, I just figured I was low at those times.  It probably would even out, gas v diesel fuel.  Gas cost less and you go through more than diesel, diesel cost a-lot more, at-least in our area.  Another thought in my mind (yea, a very scary place... lol), if we were to buy a new one, the 10k and up price difference between a gas and diesel engine, I can buy a whole lot of gas.  I do understand the difference in maintenance cost/upkeep between the 2.  In the long run, I believe I will get there slower but have more $$ left over although I don't need to worry about pennies as long as I have enough left to keep the wife happy.

[NDBirdman]

1 minute ago, Dutch_12078 said:

The 20 year old Ford V-10 in our 34' Class A has been hauling us and our RAV4 toad around nicely for the 8 years and ~31,400 miles we've owned it.

45 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

 If we were starting out again with the same available options, we would do pretty much the same as we did.

Cool, what y'all said certainly speaks volumes!

With these comments, I definitely won't shy away from a motor-home with a V10.

[geodog1]

I can't speak from the motorhome viewpoint, but, I have a 2001 V-10 in a F-250 with a Banks kit with over 150,000 miles.  about 2/3 of these miles were either off-road or towing a 14,00lb 5th wheel. Ford replaced the transmission in the first 6 months of my ownership. Since that time I have replaced 2 ignition coils (it has on for each cylinder),and the fuel pump.

 

I  have been pleased with the engine performance, but the fuel mileage could be better (4.30 gears).

 

ShortyO

[Smitty77_7]

I also liked he Ford V10. IMO, in the earlier years (Like Kirk, we had a 99 F53 Chassis, in a 98 Model Year T-28 Bounder:)!) - the weak link was the transmissions Torque Converter. IF, or when, it went out - a good quality Heavy Duty Torque Converter, made this a one time repair. We had the banks on out 275HP too, and it did fine. If we had kept the Bounder, I would have added the Gear Venders OverDrive unit. Seemed like on our set up, also towing an AWD CRV, it loved to hunt between 3rd and 4th gear quite often while mountain climbing. Having the GV gear in the middle, I felt would have eliminated the hunting:)! 

But since you are looking at the newer F53's, they should have the 5spd going GM/Ford transmission, and Tow  Haul (Think that is what it's called.) mode too... 

Good luck on your hunt - Smitty

 

 

 

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Smitty77_7 said:

it loved to hunt between 3rd and 4th gear quite often while mountain climbing.

I had the Banks Trans Command unit installed with ours and never had much problem with the hunting. Ours was a 1998 Cruise Master delivered to us in May 1998 on the early released 1999 F53. Like you I did give serious thought to adding the Gear Vendor's over/under drive unit. 

[Smitty77_7]

You know Kirk, makes me wonder if the Trans Command on our Bounder, had gone out:)! It did see to have a bit more positive feeling shift then a few other coaches I had test drove with the F53 - so assumed it was working. Either way, I was on a list for a Factory Rebuilt Gear Vender, as they're in San Diego County where we were. Nice people, I want into get some pricing info - and the gent talking with me said they usually get a few back in on exchange under warranty, and then rebuild the and sell them at a lower price, but still a pretty good warranty. About 8 month or so after we sold the coach, they called:)! 

Best to you, and all - Smitty 

[Mr Gilbert]

For us, the gas engine in our 2013 Monaco Monarch has been satisfactory.  When I read posts about maintenance on diesel pushers, I think "wow, that's unfamiliar, complicated and expensive."  Our Ford V-10 had several broken exhaust manifold studs break.  I had this fixed at a truck repair shop; it was several thousand dollars but a bigger job than I wanted to try to do.  We have had no other engine or transmission problems.  Reading on-line, it seems broken manifold studs and blown out spark plugs are common issues. 

When going downhill, I use the "tow" button on the transmission that increases engine braking and have never had the brakes get hot.  

The most aggravating part of driving has been the wandering in the steering.  The steering centering and heavy rear sway bar have helped, but I still am tired after driving 250 miles in a day.  Seven miles a gallon has been our average.  

[Zulu]

We started with a 35' 340HP 2004 National RV Sea Breeze gasserthat we bought new in 2003. It was the Workhorse/Vortec version. The engine and Allison transmission were great, but driving it was a real chore as it liked to wander. We had the Sea Breeze 7 years.

Next, we bought a 41' 350HP 2001 Newmar Mountain Aire DP in 2010 specifically for full timing. The air bag suspension & IFS made it a pleasure to drive, especially compared to the Sea Breeze. However, we often wished for more power and pickup. Towards the last years that we owned it, the Newmar became a money pit. We sold it this year and due to the "COVID effect" we made more money on the sale that we ever thought we would.

Finally, this year we bought our current Class A -- a 31' 310HP 2001 National RV Sea Breeze gasser. This is the Ford V10 version. The ride quality surprised the bejeezus out of us and the front engine is very quiet. Most of all it's been a pleasure to drive. No wandering like our old Sea View and plenty of power even when towing our Jeep Wrangler. The V10 is a high-revving engine unlike the Vortec and it always seems have power to spare even when driving on the 7% grades around us in the Sierras. It's too early to see if the Sea View turns into a money pit, but so far the repairs/upgrades have been DIY. Though National RV has long been out of business, their all-steel frame RVs are great.

My only advice is don't get a Class A gasser greater than 36' and stay away from Workhorse.

[Bill Joyce]

Zulu: We had a 2002 Dolphin on the W22 Workhorse chassis and spent about $4K on suspension upgrades and it then drove quite well.  Not as well as our 2004 Newmar Dutch Star on a Spartan chassis, but the Newmar cost a lot more.  In other words, the Workhorse ride can be fixed with upgrades.

[NDBirdman]

21 hours ago, Smitty77_7 said:

But since you are looking at the newer F53's, they should have the 5spd going GM/Ford transmission, and Tow  Haul (Think that is what it's called.) mode too... 

Good luck on your hunt - Smitty

 

 

 

Thank-you for that tid-bit.  Had not thought about the tranny part, but your right, the engine can be top-notch but with a bad/cheap tranny/drive train, it can spoil the whole experience.  I will be towing an enclosed trailer (for trike/gear or a 4-down vehicle).  Very important info, again, thanks!

Edited December 23, 2021 by NDBirdman

[Zulu]

12 hours ago, Bill Joyce said:

Zulu: We had a 2002 Dolphin on the W22 Workhorse chassis and spent about $4K on suspension upgrades and it then drove quite well.  Not as well as our 2004 Newmar Dutch Star on a Spartan chassis, but the Newmar cost a lot more.  In other words, the Workhorse ride can be fixed with upgrades.

Yikes, Bill, I can think of better ways to spend $4k.

[Kirk W]

23 hours ago, Bill Joyce said:

We had a 2002 Dolphin on the W22 Workhorse chassis and spent about $4K on suspension upgrades and it then drove quite well.

One thing to be aware of with the F53 chassis class A's is that unless it has changed a lot they tend to be near max loading on the rear axel with excess capacity on the front and in time they often begin to sag in the rear springs. Our 36', 1998/99 Cruise Master was so I had rear airbags put on to correct that at about year 10.  I felt afterward that it handled better than it ever had, but that may have just been a perception. With the increased GVWR chassis that may be less of an issue as mine was only 18k. I always wished that I had waited a year to buy it as the Cruise Master was put on the 20k chassis once it was available. Even so, when looking at any older gas chassis, look closely for tail sag indications if it has not had airbags added. 

[Pat & Pete]

Hmm  , our 2000 Monaco Monarch is still doing fine in the suspension department .

I haven't noticed any rear sag and I pull a trailer . 

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Pat & Pete said:

I haven't noticed any rear sag and I pull a trailer .

I wasn't the one who noticed mine either, it was my much more mechanical friend. But when under it one could see it and a Ford shop confirmed it. The most visible part was the shape of the rear leaf springs. 

[Pat & Pete]

10 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

I wasn't the one who noticed mine either, it was my much more mechanical friend. But when under it one could see it and a Ford shop confirmed it. The most visible part was the shape of the rear leaf springs. 

I'll have to pay attention when next I'm under the coach .

It handles very well . 

Maybe because I increased the sway bar tension , front and rear .

And , I'm positive the Safe T Plus steering stabilizer helped with handling .