Getting Smart on truck bed

[trimster]

Having NOT personally moved a Smart onto the bed of the truck, there's two options: Drive it or winch it on. I'm setup for the winch option now.

The question(s)...

1) is the tow package installed on the Smarts strong enough to support the weight of the car while being winched aboard?

2) is a 3000# winch enough to pull it up? It currently works pretty hard pulling our 1000# Spyder up, but it does so without a glitch. The Smart tips the scales around 2000#. Not sure how to calculate the 'load' with it going up the ramps. 12' ramps, 47" rise.

 

[steiny93]

Winching it on will be a lot less 'exciting' specially when conditions are subpar (night / rain / etc).

For the SxS / quads and the one time I loaded a smart the 4500lb winch was plenty of power.

 

 

[GlennWest]

If you double the cable be much smoother and less stress on winch.

[trimster]

Just now, GlennWest said:

If you double the cable be much smoother and less stress on winch.

So 2:1 ratio. Have to check if the winch drum will handle that much line. 50' has it about 90% full now. I'd need 75' to do the 2:1 ratio. 

[Darryl&Rita]

47 minutes ago, trimster said:

So 2:1 ratio. Have to check if the winch drum will handle that much line. 50' has it about 90% full now. I'd need 75' to do the 2:1 ratio. 

Park closer to the truck.

[trimster]

12' ramps kinda fix that distance. 

[Darryl&Rita]

Just now, trimster said:

12' ramps kinda fix that distance. 

12' of rope, plus 8'6" for the bed width, add 1 full wrap for proper winch safety, and you're still well short of 50'. Just sayin'.

[trimster]

12 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

12' of rope, plus 8'6" for the bed width, add 1 full wrap for proper winch safety, and you're still well short of 50'. Just sayin'.

2:1 ratio requires out-back-out. Just out-back is still 1:1 I think.

So 60' min.

[Darryl&Rita]

2:1 is only double line. You're describing triple. From the winch, to a pulley, back to the winch (or it's mounting surface).

[trimster]

28 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

2:1 is only double line. You're describing triple. From the winch, to a pulley, back to the winch (or it's mounting surface).

Looking up block n tackle ratios. ... 

Winch to load (direct),  and winch to pully on load back to winch support is 1:1.

Maybe I've misread the drawings/tutorials.

[rickeieio]

FWIW, we (meaning my wife) drive ours on, with a 40" deck height and 10' ramps.  BUT, I'm incorporating a winch mount into the bed, plus building a set of "race ramps", 48" long with 10" rise.  We've loaded with the 10' ramps and no race ramps (and 43" deck height) for the past 6 years with zero issues.

I'm planning to buy a light duty winch but use a snatch block for 2:1 .  If I back the car up on the race ramps, then attach the line, I'll need about 42' of line total.

[Star Dreamer]

2 hours ago, trimster said:

Looking up block n tackle ratios. ... 

Winch to load (direct),  and winch to pully on load back to winch support is 1:1.

Maybe I've misread the drawings/tutorials.

Yep you misread. Direct from winch to car is 1:1, from winch to car around pulley and back is 2:1.

We do the 2:1 using a harbor freight 2500# winch and we use 16' ramps. I do drive the car up onto the ramps and then hook up the cable. I use the single tow hook as my winch is in line with it. I got my pulley from Tractor Supply as they had a 8000# one.

I have a video on my Facebook group showing it being winched up.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Star Dreamer

[mr. cob]

Howdy Robert,

I use 12 ramps, my bed when the air is dropped it 45 inches from ground level.  I use a Harbor Freight, 3,500 pound winch, at first I did the double line pulls, to slow, didn't need it and keeping the cable from snarling when winding in was a problem.  I cut the cable from 50 feet to 25 and now use just a single line to pull the Smart Car onto the deck with no problem as far as winching power and the cable winds in easily with no snarling as there is plenty of room on the drum.  Works for me.

Dave

[trimster]

32 minutes ago, Star Dreamer said:

Yep you misread. Direct from winch to car is 1:1, from winch to car around pulley and back is 2:1.

We do the 2:1 using a harbor freight 2500# winch and we use 16' ramps. I do drive the car up onto the ramps and then hook up the cable. I use the single tow hook as my winch is in line with it. I got my pulley from Tractor Supply as they had a 8000# one.

I have a video on my Facebook group showing it being winched up.

Not doubting your 1:1 with a snatch block. But online sites about this stuff shows the following: 

If load N=100

The rope to the block 'sees' N=100

The rope returning to the tie-off point also sees N=100. That's 1:1 in my mind. Again. Not a mechanical lever wizard here. Just trying to figure it out. 

[hone eagle]

the bully/block sees 100 the winch sees 50 and the dead end sees 50, if you are using twice as much line........

(we are ignoring friction). 

you know if you add enough tackle/ purchase  you can end up with no advantage ,it all is lost to friction in the rope and pull sheaves.

 

 

[hone eagle]

pully   damn auto correct

[noteven]

......

 

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by noteven

[trimster]

The other question...can the Smart hitch handle it's own weight? Hook to the hitch and pull it up on the bed.

[Wrknrvr]

Pull Smart onto ramps till tread of rear tire touches them. Then winch the rest of the way up.

 

 Just saying, Vern in a T-shirt 

[Steve from SoCal]

When you pull a rolling load the sliding force is lower than dead weight.     The siding force of a 2000 car on a 30 degree inclined plane is about 1700 pounds.    

Steve

[Sculptor]

14 hours ago, trimster said:

The other question...can the Smart hitch handle it's own weight? Hook to the hitch and pull it up on the bed.

I thought I remembered other discussion about pulley/snatch block arrangements vs. cable length.  I searched but only turned up this post from Rick about the hitch, which may or may not help.  As usual for me, it’s only slightly related.  🙂

https://www.rvnetwork.com/topic/135597-winch-capacity/

[Star Dreamer]

On 8/19/2021 at 6:06 PM, trimster said:

Not doubting your 1:1 with a snatch block. But online sites about this stuff shows the following: 

If load N=100

The rope to the block 'sees' N=100

The rope returning to the tie-off point also sees N=100. That's 1:1 in my mind. Again. Not a mechanical lever wizard here. Just trying to figure it out. 

This site might help explain it better. Hone Eagle is correct that by using the pulley, the winch only sees half the load, the other half of the load is handle by the winch hook and the spot you hook it to on your truck. The vehicle will also go up at half the speed. 

I used this type of stuff almost everyday in my work as an engineer for an elevator company to determine what size our equipment needed to be.

https://www.etrailer.com/faq-electric-winch.aspx

 

[trimster]

5 hours ago, Star Dreamer said:

This site might help explain it better. Hone Eagle is correct that by using the pulley, the winch only sees half the load, the other half of the load is handle by the winch hook and the spot you hook it to on your truck. The vehicle will also go up at half the speed. 

I used this type of stuff almost everyday in my work as an engineer for an elevator company to determine what size our equipment needed to be.

https://www.etrailer.com/faq-electric-winch.aspx

 

Thanks.  Helpful. 

[trimster]

Finished fabricating the winch snatch block mount bar on the front of the smart. Came out nice I think. The bar mounts to the tow bar mounts the previous owner put on the car. One of the reasons we bought this one. Saved us a bit of money and a ton of time installing it.

I'll be putting it to the test tonight when I pull the  car up on the bed so I can mark were the wheel chalks will mount. Fortunately, the CanAm and the smart have the same width for 2 tires, so I just need to align and fabricate the mount locations for the Smarts other 2 tires.

Oh, following the Dr Who theme where the truck is the 'Tartus', the Smart is the doctors trusty companion 'K-9'.

Ya, a bit geeky... but what's a guy to do.

[mike5511]

I have 4500 lb winch. I ended up using a snatch block to slow it down. Works much better. My winch is on a bar similar to yours attached to the bumper. Just opposite of most. Nice work by the way!

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by mike5511