General Motors to stop producing gasoline and diesel cars by 2035 and only sell electric vehicles

[Barbaraok]

10 hours ago, Randyretired said:

Just buy RV's or better yet just build an RV for every person it will create jobs.  Don't need a plan to maximize our new technology just jump.  No where did I say stop, I said plan for it.  Think ahead and make it work.  Building out the power grid is not an overnight job.  I don't care to need to choose between charging my car or cooking dinner.   We need only to to look at CA to see where we are headed.  Don't try to change my words to mean stopping technology just because you don't care about the details.

"Build it and they will come"

Did we delay production of larger planes until all airports could handle them?  No, the planes were being designed, cities were told their airports wouldn't meet the needs of such-and-such an airline because they were going to bigger planes, cities either got with the program or lost that airline.  Putting a 15-20 timeline to go to all EV says here's what's coming, get the necessary infrastructure in place.   

[GlennWest]

How is this going to pan out? We go visit a friend or older person  on merger funds. They are a couple hundred miles away. We need a charge when we arrive. We plug into their home running their power bill up. Reckon we have to pay for it. Life lot simpler just to go to gas station. 

[bigjim]

6 minutes ago, GlennWest said:

How is this going to pan out? We go visit a friend or older person  on merger funds. They are a couple hundred miles away. We need a charge when we arrive. We plug into their home running their power bill up. Reckon we have to pay for it. Life lot simpler just to go to gas station. 

Valid thoughts about the issues for sure. I have thought about what stops your neighbor from plugging in to your  electric while you are gone.  It will happen some just like people stealing your gas or diesel but mostly they will come up with solutions. At this point I just can't picture what they might be.

[GlennWest]

It's fun to imagine and discuss this. Truth of matter most of us won't care in 20 or so years. I would be in my 80's. We will be that person children coming to see.

[Barbaraok]

1 hour ago, GlennWest said:

How is this going to pan out? We go visit a friend or older person  on merger funds. They are a couple hundred miles away. We need a charge when we arrive. We plug into their home running their power bill up. Reckon we have to pay for it. Life lot simpler just to go to gas station. 

Pull into a charge station before you get their, or after you leave.  Fuel stops all will be putting in charging stations.   Pull in, plug in and tap/swipe/wave smart phone to pay for charge.    Or, charge at their home and leave appropriate cash behind to cover the costs of the charging.  

[Barbaraok]

54 minutes ago, bigjim said:

Valid thoughts about the issues for sure. I have thought about what stops your neighbor from plugging in to your  electric while you are gone.  It will happen some just like people stealing your gas or diesel but mostly they will come up with solutions. At this point I just can't picture what they might be.

Smart home technology.  Set security system before you leave to block outside outlets when you are gone or to require a password to access via your ring-type doorbell so you can sanction Gardner to do their work.  After they are finished, you delete their authorization.    Where is everyone's imagination -  SMH.

[Randyretired]

1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

"Build it and they will come"

Did we delay production of larger planes until all airports could handle them?  No, the planes were being designed, cities were told their airports wouldn't meet the needs of such-and-such an airline because they were going to bigger planes, cities either got with the program or lost that airline.  Putting a 15-20 timeline to go to all EV says here's what's coming, get the necessary infrastructure in place.   

Once again you have tried to change my words.  I NEVER said stop.  I said PLAN for it, make it work.  Obviously planning is beyond on you.  It is also going to take a lot of money maybe we could start planning for that now.  Or like social security we can wait until it is a crisis.  Just do it and never mind the details as you advocate is foolish. 

[orca]

In the early 80s i read an article in Popular Mechanics on how electric cars would be refueled in the future (today). You would pull into a refueling station and put your money in the slot and the floor would open up and remove the depleted battery from the under the car and put it in a rack for recharging.  It would then replace it with a fully charged battery.  Total time spent would have been under 5 minutes! 

What a great idea i thought...i cant wait to see this!  Well that was 40 years ago and i may never see this level of cooperation between auto manufactures.

[GlennWest]

10 minutes ago, orca said:

In the early 80s i read an article in Popular Mechanics on how electric cars would be refueled in the future (today). You would pull into a refueling station and put your money in the slot and the floor would open up and remove the depleted battery from the under the car and put it in a rack for recharging.  It would then replace it with a fully charged battery.  Total time spent would have been under 5 minutes! 

What a great idea i thought...i cant wait to see this!  Well that was 40 years ago and i may never see this level of cooperation between auto manufactures.

You might be on to something there. Could be like we change out propane bottles at stations and such. 

[jcussen]

Tesla produced its first full production car in 2012, the Model S. The same year, they started their supercharger, fast charging network. Today there are over 20000 stations worldwide.

https://www.finder.com/tesla-superchargers-map

Level 3 [ DC fast charge] stations for all other EV's  in the US now are less than 200. Fast charging will allow other EV's to be travel long distances and charge in less than an hour. The dc fast charging network will have to be built up before non Tesla EV's become completely practical.

https://chargehub.com/en/charging-stations-map.html

[Barbaraok]

1 hour ago, Randyretired said:

Once again you have tried to change my words.  I NEVER said stop.  I said PLAN for it, make it work.  Obviously planning is beyond on you.  It is also going to take a lot of money maybe we could start planning for that now.  Or like social security we can wait until it is a crisis.  Just do it and never mind the details as you advocate is foolish. 

That's what is being done, but obviously you don't see it and don't want to know about it.  The fact that the auto makers are saying this is where we are headed is designed to get people to understand that things are changing.   Did you watch the Senate committee with oversight of the Energy Department hearing on Secretary designate Granholm?  This very question was asked, and she went through some of the planning going on, what types of things that would need to be addressed and how it ties in with significant job growth as new energy production methods are developed and implemented.   

[Barbaraok]

1 hour ago, GlennWest said:

You might be on to something there. Could be like we change out propane bottles at stations and such. 

Have you looked at the location of the big batteries, etc.  I venture to say it would take LONGER to get them out and a new battery in to it than to just plug into a high speed charger.  Remember, as more and more EVs are on the road, more and more charging station with faster chargers will be available.  

[GlennWest]

Waiting on charging I don't believe will be accepted widespread. I could be wrong. We live in a very fast paced world. A car could be designed for simple battery removal. Most equipment is this way now. Only logical we will continue in this way

[jcussen]

41 minutes ago, GlennWest said:

Waiting on charging I don't believe will be accepted widespread. I could be wrong. We live in a very fast paced world. A car could be designed for simple battery removal. Most equipment is this way now. Only logical we will continue in this way

Tesla V3 superchargers will recharge 400 miles in 1/2 hour, enough time to get a coffee and take a little break. Every electric car has a different sized and designed battery pack, so standard battery swapping out is not practical at this time.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-refresh-supercharger-v3-speed/

[Randyretired]

1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

That's what is being done, but obviously you don't see it and don't want to know about it.  The fact that the auto makers are saying this is where we are headed is designed to get people to understand that things are changing.   Did you watch the Senate committee with oversight of the Energy Department hearing on Secretary designate Granholm?  This very question was asked, and she went through some of the planning going on, what types of things that would need to be addressed and how it ties in with significant job growth as new energy production methods are developed and implemented.   

You originally attracted my post about the necessity of planning specifically of the power grid you argued planning  would only stifle innovation.  Then you insisted that no planning is necessary.  You said "build it and they will come".  Now you heard a Senate discussion  of some energy concepts that had little to do with expanding grid and you accuse me of not knowing about the planning.  It is obvious you only want to attack anyone that has an opinion different from yours so I will leave you at it.

[Barbaraok]

I never said planning isn’t necessary, but trying to decry progress of companies because ‘planning’ hasn’t been done is ridiculous.  Would you have told the Wright Brothers that they couldn’t go forward because planning for airports hadn’t been done?  
 

BTW, did you watch the confirmation hearings, all of it, on CSpan?  If not, how do you know all of the topics that were discussed?   Expanding the grid was indeed asked by more that one Senator.  

I am genuinely mystified by how many people are so afraid of the changes that will be coming.  

[GlennWest]

57 minutes ago, jcussen said:

Tesla V3 superchargers will recharge 400 miles in 1/2 hour, enough time to get a coffee and take a little break. Every electric car has a different sized and designed battery pack, so standard battery swapping out is not practical at this time.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-refresh-supercharger-v3-speed/

I don't believe many of us will be around long enough to care. 

[jcussen]

37 minutes ago, GlennWest said:

I don't believe many of us will be around long enough to care. 

Had my Tesla for 2 years, hope to drive it for at least another 10 years anyway.

[durangodon]

NIO has been on top of the battery swapping thing for a while now.

https://www.nio.com/blog/brief-history-battery-swapping

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33670482/nio-swappable-batteries-lease/

https://insideevs.com/news/456776/nio-swappable-battery-pack-standards/

[orca]

Battery standardization is as easy as a stroke of a government pen!! Look at California, with a stroke of a pen years ago they affected cars, trucks and motorcycles across North America forcing us all to drive CARB compliant motors!
The filler neck on every car has been standardized for years now, why not batteries? If location and mounting of batteries was the same on every EV a computer controlled machine could change it out in seconds.

If standardization does not take place there will have to be dozens of different charging stations and you will have to pass the Tesla station and Chevy station and look for a Nissan station!

The added benefit of standard batteries would be the ability of paying for the battery pack in small increments every time you replace the depleted battery with a recharged one. Not to mention that you can drive the car till it wears out and not crush it when OEM battery will no longer accept a charge! The car WILL outlast the battery. 

[jcussen]

NIO can do a swappable battery pack because all their cars are basically the same design. If you look at all the other EV's around, you will find sedans, SUV's,  pickups, etc.This will make a one size fits all battery, difficult to design. As far as I know, Tesla has the only proprietary charging system in the US. All other EV charging systems can be used by any EV, including Tesla with the proper adapter. More and more level 3 [fast charging] stations are being added every year. There are almost 80000 charging outlets is the US now.

 https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=ELEC is a . 

[RandyA]

Every time I hear or read about electric cars replacing gasoline fueled cars I have to stop and scratch my head.

Energy can neither be created or destroyed - it can only be converted.  A standard measurement of power is the watt.  Electrically, volts x amps = watts.  The watt represents the amount of work that can be done according to universal measurement standards.  The amount of power available from one gallon of gasoline is equivalent to 36.6 KWh.  That is 36.6 x 1000 for one hour - or 36,600 watts for one hour.  Expressed another way, 33.6KWh at 240 volts is 152 amp hours.  If you needed to convert from 12 volts (13.6) to 240 volts and supply 152 amps of current with a big arse inverter your batteries would need to be able to supply approximately 2,700 amps.  Can you even imagine the number of batteries and the size of the supply cable if you wanted this in your RV?  Knowing how many cars are on the road and the sorry shape our national power grid is in how in the HE(double toothpicks) are we going to supply the needed power to recharge all these electric cars?  Add to this - the current thinking is to do away with fossil fuels at power generating plants, the aversion to nuclear power, the hesitancy to dam rivers for hydro power, and the public outcry against huge electrical transmission towers and lines.  If anyone believes we can replace or expand our current power demand with the existing technology we have for wind and solar, let alone the trillions of kilowatts that will be needed to keep these electric vehicles running simply has to have their head in the sand.

[Barbaraok]

Randy - were you the one that was at Kitty Hawk telling the Wright Brothers that there was no need for airplanes, theirs was too small to carry people, the fuel required to go coast-to-coast couldn't be contained in their airplane?   You assume everything will be similar to today.  No one knows what different technologies will be coming down the pike in 20 years.  Maybe we will each have a Mr. Fusion on our RVs, a hover upgrade and use our garbage to generate our energy requirements!  

And upgrading the national grid leads to JOBS.  Isn't that what everyone wants.   Yes, it may be different jobs, which means one needs to be willing to keep on learning all of their working lives. 

[stevekk]

I have a 2019 Chevy Bolt.  Pretty neat car.  If the terrain is right you can drive for free, generating energy as you go down hill.  My bolt get around 4 miles/ KWH.  Which equals about 3 cents a mile.  Range fully charged is around 250 miles.  No special outlet is required.  Just plug in to 120V.

I am waiting for an electric car that I can tow all four down.  And as you are towing, it will charge the electric car up.

If anyone is interested in getting their feet wet, you can get some real good buys on new Chevy Bolts.

Some discounts up to $10,000.  Plus rebate from your particular State.  $2500 here in Oregon

Edited February 2, 2021 by stevekk

[rickeieio]

Couple of things to consider.....

RandyA knows more about electricity than most of us combined.

In order to increase the national grid to charge a bunch of electric cars, it would require a huge investment in labor, power lines, generators, etc.  All this would lead to increases in price per kw of electriciy, likely by at least a factor of 2 or even 3. How will the projections work with new numbers?

Poorly thought out plans like that listed above of having a Bolt (I think you mean "Volt"?) leads to bigger and bigger poor decisions.  What will be pulling that "Bolt"?  What are the frictional losses?  See RandyA's  opening line......

Will electric powered vehicle ever be practical?  I'm sure they will.  But to think it will be that far advanced in 14 years is dreaming.