Dash cams and insurance fraud

[GeoKat]

Do you use a dash cam when traveling between locations? Tell me about your set up, please.

Some might find it weird but while researching everything there is to know about RVing I purposely looked up rv accidents. Growing up these past 41yrs has taught me that learning what not to do is as important as learning what to do. My goal was to learn from other people's mistakes.

I've ran into a lot of video from heavy haulers, truck and rv about being "brake checked", a con where a person causes an accident on purpose or maybe just a case of road rage. 

Now I'm determined to have a dash cam for moving from A to B so I don't end up a victim of fraud or can at least defend myself in a case of road rage.

I'd love to hear from others who do or don't and how and why. 

I feel like just like in the case of a gun, fire extinguisher or Aflac it could be a tool for protection, not when but if something happens. As I can see pulling an expensive looking setup might be a prime target for insurance fraud.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Every vehicle we own has a dash cam. Not only for protection against fraud but also as an "expert witness" for others. I hope I never have to use it to protect me against an insurance fraud case but it is there if needed, just like the pistol on my hip, the fire extinguishers scattered here and there, and even the medical and life insurance I own. I hope I don't have to use them soon (especially the life insurance...) but I keep them "just in case"

[ARGO]

I have a cam too. But I wonder if I am at fault and the camera is seen in the truck, can I refuse access ala "testify against myself" ?

[pjstough]

8 minutes ago, ARGO said:

I have a cam too. But I wonder if I am at fault and the camera is seen in the truck, can I refuse access ala "testify against myself" ?

I believe the answer is no.

[GeoKat]

On 12/9/2020 at 12:53 PM, ARGO said:

I have a cam too. But I wonder if I am at fault and the camera is seen in the truck, can I refuse access ala "testify against myself" ?

lol maybe it'd be like not allowing a spouse to testify against you? In the end I think if I caused an accident I'd want to make sure the damages were paid for. That's what insurance is for, right? 

[GeoKat]

On 12/9/2020 at 12:48 PM, GeorgiaHybrid said:

Every vehicle we own has a dash cam. Not only for protection against fraud but also as an "expert witness" for others. I hope I never have to use it to protect me against an insurance fraud case but it is there if needed, just like the pistol on my hip, the fire extinguishers scattered here and there, and even the medical and life insurance I own. I hope I don't have to use them soon (especially the life insurance...) but I keep them "just in case"

What do you use? Do you scan your video after each trip to make sure you don't miss anything? 

I'm very much enjoying learning all the new skill sets I'm going to be using on my new adventure.

[GeoKat]

On 12/9/2020 at 12:53 PM, ARGO said:

I have a cam too. But I wonder if I am at fault and the camera is seen in the truck, can I refuse access ala "testify against myself" ?

What setup do you have?

[rynosback]

On 12/9/2020 at 1:53 PM, ARGO said:

I have a cam too. But I wonder if I am at fault and the camera is seen in the truck, can I refuse access ala "testify against myself" ?

Why not? You can say it was not plugged in. After all it is your property. They can’t force a person to testify. Sure they can subpoena someone, but they can refuse to answer or just play dumb as say they saw nothing.

[CFerguson]

Legally it can be seized as evidence at the scene or via warrant at the tow trucks storage site if you had to be towed. There are chain of custody issues in the latter case, but odds are it will be admissible.  

If you drive crazy, you might not want one. But otherwise, i think they are a good thing to have. i have 2, one on the dash and one on the rear window of my truck. Nowdays, a single unit will often to both directions.

[rynosback]

1 hour ago, CFerguson said:

Legally it can be seized as evidence at the scene or via warrant at the tow trucks storage site if you had to be towed. There are chain of custody issues in the latter case, but odds are it will be admissible.  

If you drive crazy, you might not want one. But otherwise, i think they are a good thing to have. i have 2, one on the dash and one on the rear window of my truck. Nowdays, a single unit will often to both directions.

I would agree that crazy careless drivers would not have one. For me it is just a CYA. 

[Jinx & Wayne]

On 12/9/2020 at 3:53 PM, ARGO said:

can I refuse access ala "testify against myself" ?

No.  Testimony is words or actions that you do or say that convey an idea or information.  A camera is a thing with data in it.  Like a cell phone, computer, photo album or notebook it can be subject to either a subpoena, civil discovery orders to produce documents in a civil case, or a search warrant in a criminal case.

[GlennWest]

I tow with my HDT. Yes, I have a dash cam. Scrupulous people with cause you to hit them and sue. Also a few years ago a drunk on a bicycle pulled into me when crossing a rough railroad crossing. I was put at fault and a dash cam would have changed that. So dash cam in all my vechiles now

[oldjohnt]

I'm not a litigator (mostly now retired except for Elder Law, Probate and Estates) and Civil Procedure wasn't my favorite course way back in law school. However, the legal process of Discovery and the fact you may not be allowed to hide legally admissible relevant evidence in your possession could (under certain circumstances) cut in favor of your adversary. Don't bet much that any relevant legal admissible evidence couldn't be used against you.. 

 

 John T   BSEE,JD  

[Kirk W]

This entire dash cam debate has fascinated me. I have never considered keeping a camera recording everything as I drive and hardly consider that to be a cost effective thing unless you want the in-motion camera for other reasons. I do have a camera in my phone that I use on rare occasions for situations that I think I could need to prove something but to date the only legal case that has been used for was an incident when we were volunteer naturalists in Everglades NP that my pictures allowed the LEO's to prosecute a visitor for an incident that they were not present to observe. 

If you plan to buy every item that anyone on the forum suggests you will need a very large budget. You need to prioritize and get the items which you feel are most important first and then work down the list. You say that you are concerned about fraud, I have traveled with some type of RV since 1972 and we spent almost 12 years as full-time RVers and since have gone on the road for periods from 1 to 5 consecutive months at a time. In all of those years we have never experienced an incident when a dash-cam would have been usefull and no RVer that we now has ever had occasion to use one. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Kirk W

[Bill Joyce]

I once supplied the microSD card from my car dashcam to the police for an accident we witnessed.  When the police gave us back the microSD card by mail, the video file that mattered was overwritten.  I now carry an old Android tablet to save copies of the video files on before giving it up to the police.  

Otherwise my dashcam footage has been useful for making my own videos and documenting bad driver behavior for my own amusement. 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Kirk,

I tow a large fifth wheel with a newer HDT and after having the close calls with idiots in cars that we have had, a dash cam is not a luxury, it is a necessity. I have had cars cut in front of me from the left, slam on the brakes only to exit to the right so they wouldn't miss their exit.

I have had some where it looked like a deliberate attempt to cause a wreck for insurance fraud. Take a look at all of the commercial trucks on the road and see how many of them have dash cams running. There is a reason for that.

They know that a rig weighing from 50K to over 70K can't stop like a car and they also know that commercial vehicles have good insurance and that more than likely, someone with a nice class A or a rig like ours will have something equivalent as well.

Each to his own but I know of several people involved with a "he said, she said" with the cops after a wreck where the dash cam evidence proved the other person was at fault.

Generally speaking, if you hit someone in the rear, you will be considered to be at fault. Your dash cam can prove that you were brake checked and prevent you and your insurance company from losing huge sums of money.

[Second Chance]

17 minutes ago, GeorgiaHybrid said:

...I have had cars cut in front of me from the left, slam on the brakes only to exit to the right so they wouldn't miss their exit...

I had the same thing happen to me - on a two-lane state road in east central Texas. A compact car full of young people passed me (I was doing to 55 MPH speed limit) across a double yellow line with oncoming traffic, pulled in too close, and slammed on the brakes to make a right-hand turn. The right front of my truck missed the left rear of their car by inches since I couldn't pull into the oncoming lane because of traffic. Had there been a collision, my dashcam would have been my only defense had they decided to lie to the sheriff and say that I was tailgating. I had a similar incident ten years before while not towing... the other driver did lie and we were both held at fault - I didn't have a dashcam then.

Rob

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Second Chance said:

Had there been a collision, my dashcam would have been my only defense had they decided to lie to the sheriff and say that I was tailgating. I had a similar incident ten years before while not towing... the other driver did lie and we were both held at fault - I didn't have a dashcam then.

I have had drivers cut in front of me many times with all sorts of vehicles but have always managed to stop. Really near misses have only happened to me a few times over the years since I got my driving license in 1958. I must live a charmed life, which is good since I also have a limited budget! While I do agree that such things happen, I do not agree that having such a camera is justified as a high priority for most drivers. It could depend to some degree on we drive, I suppose. Can you site one actual court ruling where such video absolved the driver of fault after hitting another vehicle? 

If I ever run out of things to buy for my RV, that will probably be next. I would love to have a Go-Pro or similar camera but for very different reasons. Keep in mind that such things are a matter of personal opinion. I believe differing opinions are one of the most valuable features of any forum to those considering the subject under discussion. We happen to disagree but that does not make either of our opinions wrong, just different and opinions are not facts. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Kirk W

[CFerguson]

Kirk, i cant site a specific case, but yes i have seen it in court where a video makes the court decision. When it crops up, it carries a TON of weight. Same as other crime video footage.  But mostly, the mere existence of dashcam video causes the party at fault to never let it get to court if possible.

[Kirk W]

12 minutes ago, CFerguson said:

i cant site a specific case, but yes i have seen it in court where a video makes the court decision.

So are you saying that this makes your opinion fact and everyone now needs to have one? My opinion is unchanged. If it makes you feel better and fits into your budget, that is justification enough for you to buy one. I don't feel it is important to me so that is my justification. We should each spend our money where we believe it gives us the most satisfaction for the cost. I probably have spent money on things that you wouldn't buy but that doesn't make either of us right or wrong. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Kirk W

[GlennWest]

They are not a high dollar item. Big return if needed. If I had had one with that drunk I would had had lesser insurance payments for years.

[Second Chance]

38 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

So are you saying that this makes your opinion fact and everyone now needs to have one? My opinion is unchanged. If it makes you feel better and fits into your budget, that is justification enough for you to buy one. I don't feel it is important to me so that is my justification. We should each spend our money where we believe it gives us the most satisfaction for the cost. I probably have spent money on things that you wouldn't buy but that doesn't make either of us right or wrong. 

Kirk,

I have respected your views and input for a long time, but I think there is a little miscommunication or misunderstanding going on here... folks aren't talking about a $200 - $350 GoPro. They're talking about things like the Rexing dash cams that can be had for $50 - $100. I am aware of a number of cases where dashcam evidence has made the difference in a court case or insurance settlement. As I mentioned above, I REALLY which I had been running one when someone pulled a stunt, ran into me, then lied to the cops (after switching seats with his passenger because there was a problem with his drivers license). We drive a lot on I-95, the loops around DC and Baltimore, I-20 and I-30, DFW, El Paso, San Diego, etc. We operate dashcams in both the truck and the car at all times - and a good part of the population does nowadays. For many, it's not a matter of opinion, "feeling better" or "satisfaction" - it's like buying insurance... just the smart thing to do. Perhaps it doesn't fit your lifestyle or needs, but an adversarial interaction here does not benefit the OP.

Rob

[Randyretired]

Injury attorneys don't do all that advertising to be nice.  It is big bucks and one needs to hope they have enough insurance to cover it.  That camera may save you a lot of dollars.  

[oldjohnt]

Of course, its a strictly a free personal choice to have or not have one. There's NO right or wrong answer to that. As an Attorney I can say legally admissible video evidence carries a lot of weight in a court of law concerning factual disputes (he said light was red, she said it was green) and that holds true regardless if its in your favor or against you IE it can be a double edge sword lol so make YOUR own choice.

 

John T   BSEE,JD  Attorney at Law, Live in the RV from High Springs Florida

Edited December 12, 2020 by oldjohnt

[Jinx & Wayne]

9 hours ago, CFerguson said:

but yes i have seen it in court where a video makes the court decision. When it crops up, it carries a TON of weight.

Amen.  I was part of a team defending a vehicular homicide a few years ago.  A semi rear-ended a passenger vehicle parked in the breakdown lane.  There was no video in either vehicle involved in the accident, but an oncoming vehicle recorded the entire incident at pretty close range.  The video was very compelling and drove the eventual outcome of the case.