Hot Skin

[SuiteSuccess]

This is not what you want to see when you’ve plugged in your trailer to the pedestal. Metered to the water hydrant and was showing 14 volts on skin. Might get a “tingle” if the ground was moist but most likely wouldn’t kill you.....unless?

If you don’t test, please consider starting. This is the third time I’ve had a hot skin. First time was before I learned to check and got a really good tingle on a wet day when we connected. 

I recommend this book to every RVer. 

https://www.amazon.com/No-Shock-Zone-Electrical-Safety-Michael-Sokol/dp/0990527913

BTW I use a pedestal checker prior to ever plugging in.  Actually have two with this being the less sophisticated but cheaper of the two.  The pedestal tested fine.  

 

[Ray,IN]

Wish I'd known about testing the pedestal back when our kids were young. We had a 1976 Allegro MH; parked at a CG in Kansas, plugged in the cord and DW went to fixing supper. One of the girls exited the MH, just as everyone had at least once already, only she was now barefoot. The second her foot touched the ground she began screaming and convulsing,unable to move. I realized she was being shocked and grabbed her up off the ground. She could then let go of the safety handle on the MH.

Of course the CG denied they had a problem (I had unplugged the MH already). I said call the owner or I'm calling the fire dept. to report a dangerous electrical problem, 10 minutes later the owner arrived with an electrician in tow. That pedestal tested "no ground connection", and the electrician found 3 more downstream of that pedestal.

Ever since then I've carried and used  testing equipment prior to plugging in the RV. Thanks for the alert.

 

 

[Kirk W]

Thank you for sharing this with everyone. These safety issues need to be publicized and this particular problem seems to have faded from the attention of most RV owners with the disappearance of metal skinned RVs for the most part. While the current fiberglass of most models today will not conduct electricity and so the skin isn't usually hot, any metal component will still experience that same issue and you may not notice until too late. Had Ray's daughter been in a rain shower she may well have been dead.

 

[noteven]

I had a stray voltage issue last year visiting family. It was the polarity of a rarely if ever used 15amp receptacle on the outside of a 1963 home. It was either wired that way when built or when some siding work was done 15 yr ago. 

I was plugged in for a few days. I was doing some maintenance outside. I leaned my folded up aluminum ladder against the aluminum checker plate on the lower front of the trailer. It said “tick” as it contacted the trailer. I said “pardon?”. 

I got my test meter and stuck neg in ground and touched pos to trailer checker plate. Meter said 110v. 😯😳.

The expert staff on this the Escapees forum directed me to discover the solution. 

I hadn’t grounded myself in the days previous to get a shock, apparently. 

Is there a business opportunity to theft deterrent? Electric fencer style?

I check connections that are new to me now. 

[SuiteSuccess]

I have a picture of a simple tester I built from plans given to me by a fellow escapee that is at the bottom of the first post.  I have very little electrical knowledge so can’t reproduce the wiring schematic.  All the components are Home Depot and relatively cheap.  This 50 amp tester works as follows:  the two meters show voltage on the two legs of the 50 amp plug (should be 120v).  That little pen looking gizmo on the side shows combined voltage of both legs (should be 240v).  The yellow plug ins show open ground, open neutral, open hot, hot ground reverse,  hot neutral reverse.

Maybe some of you electrical gurus could post a wiring diagram to build both a 50amp like mine or a 30 amp.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

That is indeed an excellent book.  You can also find YouTube videos by the author if you search by his name.  Mike also has his own website, plus he writes a regular column on RV electrical issues which you can find here:

https://rvtravel.com/rv-electricity-whats-the-code-find-out-here/

As far as the circuit for the 50 amp tester, it's here:

http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/tester_50amp.htm

You can find details on doing a 30 amp tester, as well as more great background on RV electrics at the same site:

http://www.myrv.us/electric/

[Dutch_12078]

I think it's worth noting that one of the reasons the neutral and ground should never be bonded in an RV (or other portable devices) is to prevent a hot skin condition due to reversed polarity at the power source.

[RV_]

I keep dog bone adapters for every type of pedestal, I used to have a 50 amp rig but now a 30 amp so I carry - 50 amp male to 30 amp female, 15 or 20 amp male to 30 amp female. Then, if there is a 30 amp on the pedestal, I plug my 30 amp male from the Scamp directly. But before I plug in I test every outlet. I use the below 110 15/20 amp female to 30 amp male and plug that into the pedestal, and then plug in the tester and then the voltage meter below to check voltage.

I just use one these: https://www.harborfreight.com/30-amp-male-to-15-amp-female-rv-pigtail-power-adapter-69282.html

to plug into the pedestal, and plug these testers to it: https://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/american-recorder-technologies-ground-fault-outlet-receptacle-tester/330266000744000?cntry=us&source=3WWRWXMP&msclkid=45ce19b261a714e5c20c423257e7555f&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=[ADL] [MF] [Non-Brand] [PLA] [US] [Enhanced] [Shopping] - Generic&utm_term=1100506611062&utm_content=PLA - Product Type&adlclid=ADL-8063ba29-8a99-453c-a20e-7103bd1761a1&kwid=bingproductads-adid^13788109092-device^c-plaid^1100506611062-sku^330266000744000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA

Or this I just ordered:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RUL2UU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The above doesn't test the voltage, I use a volt ohm meter for voltage testing. Many folks want a plug in for constant monitoring like these: https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=voltage+meter+rv&tag=mh0b-20&index=aps&hvadid=78065389553271&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_2iv3jzs42p_e

I just ordered this one because it can be adjusted to reflect the correct voltage using my meter to set it up: https://www.amazon.com/Eversame-80-300V-Voltmeter-Measuring-Household/dp/B015H0A3FO/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_sims?ie=UTF8

Let's remember not everyone can use a Volt Ohm meter. Simple go no go testers like these are good enough to keep from plugging into a badly wired receptacle.

[SuiteSuccess]

8 hours ago, Optimistic Paranoid said:

That is indeed an excellent book.  You can also find YouTube videos by the author if you search by his name.  Mike also has his own website, plus he writes a regular column on RV electrical issues which you can find here:

https://rvtravel.com/rv-electricity-whats-the-code-find-out-here/

As far as the circuit for the 50 amp tester, it's here:

http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/tester_50amp.htm

You can find details on doing a 30 amp tester, as well as more great background on RV electrics at the same site:

http://www.myrv.us/electric/

Thanks for supplying those links.  

[richfaa]

EMS PT 50C

[SuiteSuccess]

Rich,

My coach has built in electrical management system by Progressive Industries.  Didn’t prevent the hot skin.  Please don’t take this as criticism but I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.  Please educate me.  My previous two experiences occurred with a Surge Guard 34850 portable in line, so it didn’t prevent it either.

 

[Chad Heiser]

The EMS won't prevent a hot skin issue, but it should report the issues in the panel that would cause a hot skin issue.

[DesertMiner]

1 hour ago, Chad Heiser said:

The EMS won't prevent a hot skin issue, but it should report the issues in the panel that would cause a hot skin issue.

Opps

[SuiteSuccess]

18 minutes ago, Chad Heiser said:

The EMS won't prevent a hot skin issue, but it should report the issues in the panel that would cause a hot skin issue.

Thanks Chad.  My procedure has always been to check the pedestal first when we pull into a site.  Next I plug in cord and wait 2-3 mins for the EMS to kick in.  Then I start touching with the pen voltage detector.  We never start entering the coach or attaching water or sewer until those steps are completed.  The panel for my built in EMS is inside the coach so if my pen lights up like above  I’m through (breaker is turned off) until the pedestal is checked by the park.  With a portable like Rich suggested you could see the problem at the pedestal but with mine would have to go into coach and then turn breaker on to see the fault on the panel.  Not sure I want to do that.  Dang, always choices, huh and some are bad.😜

[DesertMiner]

Maybe one of these may help.......

http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-rds

[ALLOY]

On 8/23/2018 at 6:54 PM, SuiteSuccess said:

This is not what you want to see when you’ve plugged in your trailer to the pedestal. Metered to the water hydrant and was showing 14 volts on skin. Might get a “tingle” if the ground was moist but most likely wouldn’t kill you.....unless?

If you don’t test, please consider starting. This is the third time I’ve had a hot skin. First time was before I learned to check and got a really good tingle on a wet day when we connected. 

I recommend this book to every RVer. 

https://www.amazon.com/No-Shock-Zone-Electrical-Safety-Michael-Sokol/dp/0990527913

BTW I use a pedestal checker prior to ever plugging in.  Actually have two with this being the less sophisticated but cheaper of the two.  The pedestal tested fine.  

 

What was the cause of the leak?

[SuiteSuccess]

I’m not an electrician so can’t really give you a good response.  Apparently was a problem at the main panel supplying four sites.  Needless to say we moved to a different site that tested fine.  Maybe what Dutch said above?

[Ray,IN]

How to build your own compact 50A tester.

Here is a commercially made 30A tester on the same order as the 15A testers.

 

[kb0zke]

I was given a 50A cord about 3' long with pigtails, and that was the impetus to make my own 50A tester. I have a 240VAC neon bulb wired across the two hot terminals so I also know if the pedestal is properly wired that way. I use that before anything is plugged in. Since there is no load placed on the power supply, I don't know if the wires are actually heavy enough to supply the proper current. A real EMS would show me that, but I haven't gotten that done yet. Maybe this winter I'll have time to kill all the electricity to the coach and install one.

[Pappy Yokum]

On 8/24/2018 at 3:21 PM, richfaa said:

EMS PT 50C

Progressive Industries has made a few changes - including the model designations for both portable and hardwired 30 & 50 amp  EMS...

http://progressiveindustries.net/portable-hardwired-comparisons

And - one of the best "why have one?"  threads is this....

The Electrician said "oops"

Note;  The "oops' thread starter also adds some clarification  (to his term - "surge protection") on the bottom of page 1, and also on page two

..

 

[SuiteSuccess]

4 hours ago, Pappy Yokum said:

Progressive Industries has made a few changes - including the model designations for both portable and hardwired 30 & 50 amp  EMS...

http://progressiveindustries.net/portable-hardwired-comparisons

And - one of the best "why have one?"  threads is this....

The Electrician said "oops"

Note;  The "oops' thread starter also adds some clarification  (to his term - "surge protection") on the bottom of page 1, and also on page two

..

 

So Pappy just to be sure I’m understanding my hardwired Progressive Industries EMS should never have let the hot skin occur in the first place? 

[RBH]

On 8/27/2018 at 7:59 AM, SuiteSuccess said:

So Pappy just to be sure I’m understanding my hardwired Progressive Industries EMS should never have let the hot skin occur in the first place? 

Please read Mike Sokol's series. An EMS will NOT prevent a hot skin condition. Chuck Woodbury's RV newsletter Has and continues to cover this subject extensively and should be required reading for any RV owner.

[Optimistic Paranoid]

And if you're the type who hates to read - like my BIL - go to YouTube and search on 'hot skin condition' and you will find several good videos on the subject, a couple of which feature Mike.