High Mileage HDTs

[timberland1976]

My wife and I have been considering, perusing, teeth gnashing the purchase of an HDT and get on the road. I have been following many of the posts on this forum and while my confusion has lessened, apprehension is alive and well. I have never purchased a semi tractor, I don't know enough about them to get into a good argument, so here are my questions, and i am hopeful there are folks with the same experience that we have that will come forward.

 

1. Has anyone bought a truck at auction? It seems reasonable to do, after all that is where a lot of dealers buy trucks and re-sell them. Why wouldn't it make sense to have a truck inspected prior to bidding and buy if the price is right?

 

2. How many miles is too many on a used truck? I talked to a guy the other day who had a Peterbilt with 1.5 million miles and he said it would easily go another 2 million.

 

3. If a truck is purchased from a dealer or similar for $50k and up, is it less likely to have problems and need fixing than a $10 or 15k truck from an auction with more miles has? I am assuming the auction truck to be inspected and if it is not too costly, repair known problems and go from there. Jack mentioned in a previous post that all trucks have problems, so have $8000 in a sock for repairs. Is that figure valid no matter if it has 400,000 or 900,000 or more miles?

 

4. I would like to find a truck that is reliable, knowing that much of the time it will be sitting empty, we plan to get to an area and do most of the exploring on our Harley MC. I'm guessing maybe 10,000 miles a year at most on the truck.

 

5. Do I need to find another tree to bark up? Is it reasonable to find a good truck, put some money in repairs right away and get another 100-150,000 miles out of it? Thanks to all for reading and responses.

[jeffw]

We just bought a converted 2007 Volvo 780 with 725k miles for $40k. It seems like everything I saw sell while I was looking in that age range was $35-50k.

 

Our truck has not been singled, and has a simple bed and a ET hitch. It also has an inverter with a separate set of 6V golf cart batteries to power it.

 

Budget the bed and 5th wheel hitch installation into your pricing. I didn't want to be the one that converted the truck from commercial to RV.

 

If you can find a used converted truck that's already had some or all of the deferred maintenance taken care of, you might be better off. That was my thinking anyway.

[JPL]

Timberland, Just some personal thoughts. I bought our 98 630 volvo already titled as a MH from a Escapees member. It had 550k. We have had it 5 years and only put 10k on it. Was still working but retired in Oct so that is why we get to go to the ECR. There is always a truck coming up for sale every once in a while on Escapees. The problem is is usually isn't exactly what you want. Converting a truck is doable. Can you do it or have it done? Someone on the forum had a truck singled for about 1600. Not bad. Do you plan on keeping it a home or will you have to park it somewhere else? That was the reason I had to have a MH. The HOA can't do anything about It. Personal property taxes are cheaper as is insurance. So are tags. Where are you located? I'm in Va. Can you convert one in your state? Some states are much harder than others. I guess what I' trying to say, it's easier and quicker to buy a truck that is converted but you really get to know your truck when you build it. Look at the beginning of the HDT forum and check out that info. Keep on here and you will fin all kinds of help. Are you close to the ECR at Crossville Tenn on the 9th to 16th of April? You don't need a truck. Just get a room and attend the sessions. Worth the time if work will allow. Good trucks are out there you just need to be ready to buy when you find it. I don't know about auctions because I would want to drive it first. Dealers are at least a place you can take the truck when issues arise. Best way will have to be what you decide but this site with these great people can and will help. Pat

 

 

The Old Sailor

[Star Dreamer]

Timberland, regarding your questions:

1) we did not buy at an auction. Most auctions will not allow you to drive a truck so inspection would be limited to visual and maybe being able to start hit and hear it run. You will not be able to do a dyno or VIS check. The price you pay at an auction should be considerable less than retail but your total price may be more if you need major repairs. Also you may need to be a dealer to even buy at some auctions.

 

2) mileage would vary depending on person and condition. The higher the mileage without any record of engine work or trans work means a greater chance of it being needed in your lifetime. But it can Aldo happen at lower mileage just maybe not as likely

 

3) price does not guarantee repair free. Emissions, mileage and maintenance are better indicators. You should have the reserve in any scenario or take hour chances.

 

4) they are out there, just hard to find

 

5) this not unreasonable at all. Just make a list of definite must haves and a list of good to haves and a list of no way's and try to look at as many as possible.

 

Dave

[timberland1976]

We wanted to make to ECR this April, I think the knowledge there is unlimited. However, my wife's nephew is getting married in Oklahoma April 14, so that is where we will be.

[Brad & Jacolyn]

Timberland, it also depends on how handy you are and if you have the tools and a place to work on things. I was told before I bought that it was a good idea to have $1000 in a sock for every 100,000 miles on the hdt for unforeseen repairs. And they will occur. I am much more knowledgeable now after 7 years on the road but I still would not take on a conversion on my own. But that's just me.

I contacted Rick Lacombe when I started on this journey and let him handle the locating, inspecting, singling and the paperwork. Rick is in Canada and he came to the airport and got me, took me to the truck and gave a driving lesson. Just another option for you.

 

Also your 10K a year is probably high. We have put 70,000 miles on Vonda since 2009. However, the first 2 1/2 years she was our everyday driver so that skews things a bit. This year we left Texas heading for Florida by way of Oregon. Yes, we need a new map but that was still only an 8700 mile trip.

 

Brad

[Jack Mayer]

I'll give you my opinion, but it is simply that - my opinion based on experience. Others will argue a different path. It somewhat depends on your ability and desire to do things yourself.

 

1) ALWAYS try to find a truck that has already been converted and has an RV "provenance". RV owners tend to baby their trucks, and most things will be worked out on them, assuming the truck has been owned for more than a couple of years.

 

2) NEVER, EVER buy a truck at auction. You have no idea what you are getting. You might luck out, and you might not. For most RV owners this is not a path to follow. There ARE individuals that take a chance on auction trucks, and do OK. But they are not individuals in the RV ownership pool. They are generally business owners that have the ability to flip the truck again if it does not work out.

 

3) Mileage (reasonable miles - up to 800K or so) are not as important as peripheral system repair. There are a LOT of systems on these trucks, and these sysmetms break down BEFORE the major engine parts fail. KNOW what has happened with a higher mileage truck and it can be fine.

 

4) MOST fulltime RVers put about 7K on their tow vehicles. It might vary some across the years but that is about the average. Your circumstances may differ.

 

5) You can easily find a good truck that will give you 200K miles of service. But you WILL BE putting repairs into it during that time. If you expect to buy a truck - ANY truck - and not put any repairs into it then you should look elsewhere. However, a good truck will not have major repairs in that timeframe. And you MAY luck out and get a truck that requires little repairs. ON my '99 Volvo 610 I basically did little to it during the 10 years I ran it. Oil changes, and some peripheral systems. I averaged $1050/year into that truck for maintenance and repairs. Considering an oil change is $200+ that was not bad.

 

6) There are a LOT of systems on these trucks that need to be in good order. Just because the truck drives OK does not mean that all the systems are where you would want them to be. There are a myriad of things that will continue to "show up". That is why I personally (and Gregg does as well) take the approach of preemptively repairing things that are currently marginal, or that are unknown. For example, I would ALWAYS replace the air governor on any truck I bought. And I would ALWAYS change out all the hoses unless I knew they were just done. The key is to have a truck that is less likely to break down roadside. For some people that is not the chosen path - they would rather fix it when it breaks. But I choose to avoid roadside work if I can. So far I have not had a roadside breakdown in 13 years with an HDT. But we are fulltime RVers, and that does make a difference in our attitude.

[timberland1976]

Thanks Jack, used converted trucks are about as scarce as hen's teeth. I agree completely about the avoidance of breakdowns on the road, and maintenance especially preventive maintenance is key. I had a 2005 Harley Davidson Road King that unfortunately met its demise last year because I hit a telephone cable that was suspended across the road at 55 mph. That bike had 142,000 miles on it and it ran just as well at the end as when I bought it new.

 

I see posts on this site with owners of HDTs that have 700,000 miles and up on their trucks and seem to enjoy them very much. I think that is the crux of my discussion: is buying a truck with higher miles, doing some repair/replacement on components looking for trouble instead of buying a higher cost truck with less miles a better decision?

 

I hope that I did not give the impression that maintenance and repair would not be needed. We are looking for a truck that will give us 100,000 miles or so reliably with good maintenance done.

[Dollytrolley]

I'll give you my opinion, but it is simply that - my opinion based on experience. Others will argue a different path. It somewhat depends on your ability and desire to do things yourself.

 

1) ALWAYS try to find a truck that has already been converted and has an RV "provenance". RV owners tend to baby their trucks, and most things will be worked out on them, assuming the truck has been owned for more than a couple of years.

 

2) NEVER, EVER buy a truck at auction. You have no idea what you are getting. You might luck out, and you might not. For most RV owners this is not a path to follow. There ARE individuals that take a chance on auction trucks, and do OK. But they are not individuals in the RV ownership pool. They are generally business owners that have the ability to flip the truck again if it does not work out.

 

3) Mileage (reasonable miles - up to 800K or so) are not as important as peripheral system repair. There are a LOT of systems on these trucks, and these sysmetms break down BEFORE the major engine parts fail. KNOW what has happened with a higher mileage truck and it can be fine.

 

4) MOST fulltime RVers put about 7K on their tow vehicles. It might vary some across the years but that is about the average. Your circumstances may differ.

 

5) You can easily find a good truck that will give you 200K miles of service. But you WILL BE putting repairs into it during that time. If you expect to buy a truck - ANY truck - and not put any repairs into it then you should look elsewhere. However, a good truck will not have major repairs in that timeframe. And you MAY luck out and get a truck that requires little repairs. ON my '99 Volvo 610 I basically did little to it during the 10 years I ran it. Oil changes, and some peripheral systems. I averaged $1050/year into that truck for maintenance and repairs. Considering an oil change is $200+ that was not bad.

 

6) There are a LOT of systems on these trucks that need to be in good order. Just because the truck drives OK does not mean that all the systems are where you would want them to be. There are a myriad of things that will continue to "show up". That is why I personally (and Gregg does as well) take the approach of preemptively repairing things that are currently marginal, or that are unknown. For example, I would ALWAYS replace the air governor on any truck I bought. And I would ALWAYS change out all the hoses unless I knew they were just done. The key is to have a truck that is less likely to break down roadside. For some people that is not the chosen path - they would rather fix it when it breaks. But I choose to avoid roadside work if I can. So far I have not had a roadside breakdown in 13 years with an HDT. But we are fulltime RVers, and that does make a difference in our attitude.

 

Timber,

 

From time the thread like your titled " WHAT CAN I EXPECT FROM A TRUCK WITH 765,432.21 MILES ON IT"...........comes up on the forum so......

 

So I have recycled some pondering below......

 

Not sure if you are presently crazy........IF......you purchase a HDT it might be to your advantage to consider becoming somewhat crazy since you are purchasing a commercial-grade-machine for........private use.

 

At the end of the day......you can dyno a truck until the tires melt (or your credit card melts) and you can oil sample it until it is out of oil.....but these tests are just a small part of the overall........evolving....story that makes up HDT ownership.

 

What does a dyno-run provide......mostly provides a clue to the engine power available during the test compared to the advertised power of the engine when NEW. Modern diesel engines can output a LOT of power even when near needing a overhaul......electronic injection and BIG turbos are the "Diese;-Viagra" for worn engines.....

 

Oil analysis is intended to be a "History-Making-Tool" not a clear snap-shot of the current condition of the machine. IF the engine is in the FINAL stages of critical failure you might get lucky and see MASSIVE levels of what-ever that could tell you that the end is near.......but.....the truth is that one-sample-oil-analysis is about as informative as picking up a copy of the novel War and Peace and just reading page 462 and then trying to estimate what the entire story is about.........not going to happen......

 

Jeff tells you that it is a........crap-shoot.....AND this is coming from a chap that has +1 , 6 X X, X X X miles on a HDT that he bought NEW!!

 

If Jeff can NOT foretell the future needs of a HDT that he has nurtured since mile # 1..... take his word that life in the truck lane is just another chapter in ........life.......

 

Often LIFE boils down to ....comfort-level.....or....lack-of-comfort......You seem UN-confortable with your present tow-rig so......you seem to be planning to sell it and try....something different.....maybe a HDT........SO.......what-IF.......you sell your whatever and get a HDT........and you like the HDT......keep the HDT........IF you decide you do NOT like the HDT........just sell it (just like you did the whatever you have now).......

 

Just like Jeff said..........HDT is a "crap-shoot"..........you can decide to NOT play.......or roll the dice......

 

Drive on............(Crap-shoot......is life)

[MLC]

Timberland sent you a personnel message.

MLC

[Dollytrolley]

My wife and I have been considering, perusing, teeth gnashing the purchase of an HDT and get on the road. I have been following many of the posts on this forum and while my confusion has lessened, apprehension is alive and well. I have never purchased a semi tractor, I don't know enough about them to get into a good argument, so here are my questions, and i am hopeful there are folks with the same experience that we have that will come forward.

 

1. Has anyone bought a truck at auction? It seems reasonable to do, after all that is where a lot of dealers buy trucks and re-sell them. Why wouldn't it make sense to have a truck inspected prior to bidding and buy if the price is right?

 

2. How many miles is too many on a used truck? I talked to a guy the other day who had a Peterbilt with 1.5 million miles and he said it would easily go another 2 million.

 

3. If a truck is purchased from a dealer or similar for $50k and up, is it less likely to have problems and need fixing than a $10 or 15k truck from an auction with more miles has? I am assuming the auction truck to be inspected and if it is not too costly, repair known problems and go from there. Jack mentioned in a previous post that all trucks have problems, so have $8000 in a sock for repairs. Is that figure valid no matter if it has 400,000 or 900,000 or more miles?

 

4. I would like to find a truck that is reliable, knowing that much of the time it will be sitting empty, we plan to get to an area and do most of the exploring on our Harley MC. I'm guessing maybe 10,000 miles a year at most on the truck.

 

5. Do I need to find another tree to bark up? Is it reasonable to find a good truck, put some money in repairs right away and get another 100-150,000 miles out of it? Thanks to all for reading and responses.

 

Timber,

 

I have one more "recycled post" from a previous thread such as yours........perhaps my comments regarding the 500k to 800 k mile trucks might explain why you are seeing so many trucks in these mile range at the auctions........like Jack says.....likely a pig-in-a-poke.....

 

 

 

Good questions, obviously you have been pondering a lot of things regarding your "desired RV experience".

 

We are a bit-of-a-blacksheep" here......Our HDT is somewhat odd as it is not a Volvo but a older 1997 Freightliner Century mid-roof-condo with a small Cummins M11 coupled to a 10 speed Roadranger and 3:08 tandem rears. Presently we switch between TWO bed configurations, one is a simple 8' X 12' wood deck and the other is a 20' Ryder-type box with a roll-up rear door and a 4' X 8' curb-side door, this box allows us to load a full-size blazer in the "garage-section" and still carry a few tons of horse water, feed and tack in the front 5 ft of the box.

 

As I said our rig is odd in that our travel -pet(s) total about 960 lbs of weight .......,Kio, the Abyssinian cat weighs in at 10 lbs and..... Dolly-the-paint-horse hovers at about 950 pounds give or take 25 pounds...... Koi is a light traveler but..... Dolly is one of those "girls" that does NOT travel light ......for moderate trip we will fill up her 330 gallon tote with water, then throw in about 1,500 pounds of feed and then about 500 lbs of tack and "nag-related-essential" items..... hence with this much variable-loading we must remain tandem to stay flexible.

 

Dollytrolley presently has 1,031,XXX miles on the "glider" with about 18,000 on a new engine and rebuilt drive-train so....... we have a older truck with a nearly new drive train.

 

Dollytrolley is in a constant-state-of-change in the appearance department and some stages are pretty ugly but it is a project that is somewhat interrupted by the sometimes over-active-retirement.....job that seems to be near-full-time at times.

 

Used truck miles are often a source of confusion and frustration......your goal of obtaining a truck of 600k or less miles may have merit but also might not be as trouble free as you might have imagined. HDT's are a bit different than cars or pickups in that they tend to be built as commercial machinery and unlike autos with fairly defined life-limits.....HDT's life-spans are determined by the maintenance-levels and component rebuild / replacement intervals. You would likely be amazed how many older HDT's have Several million miles on them and are very reliably piling on more miles every day. On the other hand, if you graze through the Truck ads long enough you will find a HUGE inventory of late-model HDT's that are for sale with 500,000 to 800,000 miles since new.........why.......well often newer trucks reach the end -of-first-life-cycle due to "bean-counter-issues" that is that the cost-to-benefit-ratio favors selling the late-model used truck and purchase (or lease) a new truck. A major factor in the 500k to 800k sell decision is that this mileage range is often where the first component-related major service and or rebuild / replace issues start ti be costly in downtime and capital expense. The latest HDT's with complex emission system(s) are prone to very costly component service issues in this mileage range.

 

So......does this mean that late model trucks in the 500k to 800k mileage range a.......money-pit....... some will be and some may be OK..... roll the dice as they say....

 

It's somewhat telling that Greg at RV Haulers takes extreme efforts to sift and research EACH HDT that he purchases AND then when he finds a "cream-puff" he then tears into it to refine and rework it into a unit that often compares well to a new HDT. Is Greg's model ideal......perhaps.... this model while costly compared to the cost of a "normal-used-HDT" the added cost may often be a good value in that you will likely obtain a "proven-HDT" in "near-new" condition........it is likely that the value is confirmed and I have never recalled so much as one bad word about Greg's work or business ethics......how many major item companies have that many happy clients........

 

Dollytrolley will likely never be a show-truck and it is very plain/ugly-jane right now and to a certain extent this works fairly well in the the wifes horse-trail -ridding hobby finds the Dollytrolley on many miles of gravel, dirt, and a few muddy back roads with more than a few tree limbs jutting out into the ......"road".......

 

My last point will likely get me flamed but what the heck....... I tend to demand reliable service from my boats, aircraft, and trucks and the current new HDT's with DPF in NO way rise to my standards of reliability .......Period.

 

The current "DPF-Experment" is just that a "Forced-Experment" and I will choose to let other folks partake of the "DPF-experience" I for one find the "forced-shut-down" of a DPF system a major safety issue that is unacceptable........Period........Scrap seems to hint that if you think DPF is bad......just wait.......the "Fix' will likely be much worse.......

 

Flame me now .....I have my Nomex undies on.......,

 

Drive on.........(Find the HDT that is the best fit......)

[noteven]

Vehicle Electrical complexity added to the owner gadgetry constantly draining batteries not protected by a shutoff switch multiplied by the grounds and contacts exposure to road de-icing agents divided by the lack of thorough washing times the parking outside covered with wet de-icing goo will = the volume of electrical issues that will appear use up time and life energy better applied to motorcycle rides.

 

U joints and brakes are easy to repair.

[timberland1976]

The level of response here has been absolutely wonderful and all opinions are welcomed and honesty is appreciated. Regarding the DPF issue, I spoke with an owner of a trucking company that he and his brothers have had for a long time. He thought the 2007 through 2011 years were the most troublesome, after that his issues seemed to be less with pollution devices.

[RickW]

The more you can learn about the trucks history the better. In my case, I purchased a truck via a dealer. I may have paid a few dollars more by buying from a dealer, an auction definitely would have been cheaper but I got two things by buying via a dealer. 1 - there were several small items that we identified needed to be resolved as part of the deal. Nothing major, but would have nickel and dimed us to get resolved. Most of the items were just taken off other trucks on the lot. They were all items that most drivers could care less about but made a difference to us. 2 - a warranty. Our truck was completely checked out from one end to the other but the one thing nobody could see or could have seen with out dropping the oil pan was the fact that a oil rag was stuffed down the oil fill tube at some point in time. Keep in mind the dealer let us have the truck for a day so we could take it to anybody we wanted to check it out. Our test drive was almost 120 miles. The oil rag waited until after the deal was done and I was driving the truck home before it finally got sucked up by the oil pickup.

 

If this was a auction truck it would have still been my truck and in need of a new motor. I did not buy an extended warranty, just the standard warranty the dealer provided on all trucks they sell. They had two options, fix the truck or give me my money back. In the end we agreed to a repair that both of us could live with and we felt was better than starting the truck search all over again. 6 years later we are still very happy with the truck. I know my story is rare/extreme but it did happen to us. While the odds of this happening again are very low, it still can. I am grateful we went the direction we did.

[jkoenig24]

Have you looked at fleet trucks? With a professionally run fleet, I think you'd stand a better chance of getting to see the service records for a candidate you'd be interested in. You might be allowed to road test and, possibly pay for a dyno test.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

Keep a eye on http://www.racingjunk.com/ as well. Trucks pop up on there all the time as well.

We bought cheeeeep. already converted, but in need of some care. Truck looked good on the surface, and is mechanically sound, but was neglected for awhile in the peripheral systems area. Today, almost 16 months later we have most of it under control. Total price so far is about $7k including tires.

[dblr]

We were lucky and found a converted rig here with a Smart Car, millage in the low 600's, we have had to fix some things, needed and some that looked like would give us trouble soon. I am with Jack on preventive instead of roadside, had one issue roadside last year which was simple but could have been avoided. Good luck on your search if not in a hurry keep watching here as most of the trucks are known and folks here can help you, I know there were a few folks here that made me very comfortable when we bought ours.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

This is or was a form member here. Something like this can be used as is, or made shorter without much effort.

http://www.racingjunk.com/Class-8-Truck-Conversions/182618640/2003-International-HD-Jeep-Hauler-5th-Wheel-Tow-Vehicl.html

[jpar19]

I agree that a previously converted truck would be a MUCH easier path. I looked for quite awhile for a converted truck that I could afford and that met our needs with nothing jumping out at me. Fast forward, I bought an unconverted 630 that I have jumped into with both feet. I'm a hard head and I like to turn my own wrenches where I can and the process of conversion has been a big learning curve from acquiring MH registration, to Insurance to hitch and system installations. We bought from a dealer that had extensive records on the units maintenance and it passed inspection easily. I would have preferred a non emissions unit but to get the i-shift you had to accept it. I know at some point there's going to be some expense but I'm prepared for it.

I looked at dozens of trucks that had a hard life, so when this came up, we jumped on it.

Jack reminded me of something I still need to do on mine. Is the air governor the $20 part that'll leave you stranded? Get the wrenches back out!!!

[Brad & Jacolyn]

Have you looked at the for sale section on the forum? I saw a couple listed there on the first page.

[ray.service]

Timberland, Just some personal thoughts. I bought our 98 630 volvo already titled as a MH from a Escapees member. It had 550k. We have had it 5 years and only put 10k on it. Was still working but retired in Oct so that is why we get to go to the ECR. There is always a truck coming up for sale every once in a while on Escapees. The problem is is usually isn't exactly what you want. Converting a truck is doable. Can you do it or have it done? Someone on the forum had a truck singled for about 1600. Not bad. Do you plan on keeping it a home or will you have to park it somewhere else? That was the reason I had to have a MH. The HOA can't do anything about It. Personal property taxes are cheaper as is insurance. So are tags. Where are you located? I'm in Va. Can you convert one in your state? Some states are much harder than others. I guess what I' trying to say, it's easier and quicker to buy a truck that is converted but you really get to know your truck when you build it. Look at the beginning of the HDT forum and check out that info. Keep on here and you will fin all kinds of help. Are you close to the ECR at Crossville Tenn on the 9th to 16th of April? You don't need a truck. Just get a room and attend the sessions. Worth the time if work will allow. Good trucks are out there you just need to be ready to buy when you find it. I don't know about auctions because I would want to drive it first. Dealers are at least a place you can take the truck when issues arise. Best way will have to be what you decide but this site with these great people can and will help. Pat

 

 

The Old Sailor

Not to hi-jack this thread and not to confuse a new member, but a '98 would be a 610.

[Hewhoknowslittle]

As trouble free my M-11 has been with the 10 speed ME-Shift, while servicing it this last weekend I found coolant and oil dripping from the oil filter.

I pressure tested it overnight but failed to find the coolant leak, so off to Cummins it went, they found the coolant filter housing seals to block leaking along with the oil filter/oil cooler housing leaking at the block also, so 1600.00 later it's fixed.

I did not want to do the repair my self, and was willing to pay for peace of mind, as the trip to the ECR should be trouble free, if not and it's something they repaired, no charge to me to have fixed.

Just keep in mind, no matter how much you check your truck, something will pop up.

 

Roger