New Project

[13speed]

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[GeorgiaHybrid]

On 07/02/2017 at 9:00 AM, Jack Mayer said:

You can get the truck without a hitch. You just have to know how to navigate the engineering exceptions.....a typical commercial truck dealer could not get it done.

Jack,

I have to call BS on this one. All they do is order a box truck frame or do a fifth wheel hitch delete. I talked to all 5 dealers in this area for all of the truck manufacturers and none of them had a problem with ordering the truck that way. It is fairly common for attached box truck bodies. Same thing goes for having single rear axles instead of tandems.

David

[Scrap]

He's got full fairings though, which I suspect forced a GHG tractor, which then forces 5th wheel.  There's a new door label on that truck that we haven't talked about here before....check out what it says and compare it to the labels on your two new partial fairing trucks above and we'll know the difference (and if I'm right or wrong).  This PB link describes the EPA codes.  They are "emissions" parts that a upfitter is not supposed to take off (I don't remember what a truck owner can do).

http://www.peterbilt.com/resources/Supplemental Manuals/Greenhouse_Gas_Supplement.pdf

Wait 5 years till GHG phase 2 really gets what they want and we won't be talking about a 5th wheel in the way anymore - you'll be dealing with Flow Below's, bogie blocks, gap seal rings, and all kinds of junk.  Man I'm all Chicken Little this week, but trucks are being forced to change quite a bit and it ain't in the normal fashion we're all used to.

[ALLOY]

13 hours ago, phoenix2013 said:

The mounting plate 5/8 thick (part of the hitch)  is 34 inches long and 32 1/2 inches wide. Mounting angles (part of the hitch) are 34 inches long, so the hitch is supported mostly inside the original frame and only 10 inches on the extensions.. All trucks have the inner dimension between the rail at about 32 1/2 inches there is very little clearance, no more than 1/4 inch. There is no room for doubling  or fishplating. The weld start with a deep V-groove in the frame and extension on the inside, total penetration and fusing of the parts welded on the inside and outside. My welder has certifications from here to Kingdom come in steel, aluminum, stainless, etc. and has been doing it for decades. The weld will be fine, the hitch will be fine. Are there other "concerns"?

I posted a close up of the welds so that other professional welders could appreciate his "art".

Ok Ok have to ask....not questioning the quality of the welding but I'm wondering why a vertical down on a V groove?

 

[GlennWest]

Down hill, with mig or Tig is fine. I have made welds on pipe all downhill and it x-ray good. No other way to weld it. One inch from ceiling. Check out pipe lines. All downhill. 

[noteven]

...

[Sculptor]

On 7/2/2017 at 10:03 PM, phoenix2013 said:

Before it would have to been 27 inches, Next step was too weld the extensions to the frame rails.

Nice looking welds. 

X2 on Pete's comment, lol!!

Those welds are almost like mine. But there missing the slag holes. Skip spots lows and highs. Other then that just like mine.

[GlennWest]

Definitely not flux core. I hate that stuff. I'm using it on my projects so that I don't have to carry a gas bottle.

[Jack Mayer]

19 hours ago, GeorgiaHybrid said:

Jack,

I have to call BS on this one. All they do is order a box truck frame or do a fifth wheel hitch delete. I talked to all 5 dealers in this area for all of the truck manufacturers and none of them had a problem with ordering the truck that way. It is fairly common for attached box truck bodies. Same thing goes for having single rear axles instead of tandems.

David

David, the problem is with the fairings, as Scrap said. But I suppose I was too strong on my point. Some dealers could definitely get it done, it is just more difficult and you have to find one willing to go the extra mile for you. There are a lot of little things like that. As you know. You can order a truck that is intended to put a box/body on - that is done every day, as you note. But it induces things in the "system" that may not be what you want and you will have to try to work through them. Some dealers are able to, and some are not.  Some dealers will also not deliver to a retail customer but only to a second stage manufacturer.  It varies a lot.  That is what you have to watch out for, which really was my major point that I did not make well. And in no way do I want to discourage people from ordering their own new trucks. It is not rocket science, you just have to be very detailed, find a dealer willing to work out the issues, and persevere.  The tradeoff between a new truck and a newer-vintage used is not that great when you consider singling and other preemptive mechanical work you would want to perform on the used truck. In the case of the truck I just bought with 200K miles on the clock the difference is about 40K. And it can be somewhat less, depending on costs (of truck and conversion). If you intend to own the truck a long time it makes financial sense to consider a new one. 

[noteven]

Maybe put that new fifth wheel on Craigslist in Florida for 1/2 new price and see if it sells? The model number should be on the trucks line sheet...

Maybe a dealer would credit a customer some $$ for a new take off fifth wheel on a new truck order? 

[Jack Mayer]

The 5th wheels generally sell pretty well. Especially the aluminum ones. And especially the sliders. 

[Dbl0svn1]

Hello Gentlemen,  

Regarding this tractor being purchased with a hitch, or the way that I built it, the answers are relatively simple.  

I ordered a new truck to be used for private use as a truck/tractor.  I chose this Volvo because it specifically met my need and has full factory options that are warranted, quality and did not require a special custom up fit or expense.  

I purchased the full fairing's on the truck since I like the clean look, it's factory and offers better fuel economy.  

My use will not entail having a car hauler bed, but may in the future have a flat bed that will compliment the factory hardware.  

The tractor was purchased with the fifth wheel because it's a tractor and that is standard equipment on a tractor.  For one truck, there really s no benefit for Volvo to modify production and have the standard hitch omited.  The hitch is a JOST steel slider, so try not to go off the rails with crazy conspiracy theories about $5k aluminum sliders.  It was standard and was included in the base vehicle cost.  I have a 13,200# front axle with air ride and a 23,000# rear axle with air ride.  I live near the Volvo powertrain plant (that also does the R&D and concept vehicle testing) and have done extensive research with Volvo  to meet my needs and they did so with ease.

My purpose is to use the truck as a giant "pick up" so to speak.  So I will use it to tow my rv 5th wheel, goto lowes, home depot, grocery store, or anything that you would use a person vehicle for.  The state that I live in requires that the vehicle be registered as it is VIN'd.  No rv reclassified because someone adds a Porta potty.  DMV where I live doesn't look for it or care about it.  They want the VIN.  So it's a tractor.  I have no way to recertify the VIN, nor do I need to.  I have a non-commercial class A licence and can haul any combination weight that I want as long as it's all personal use.  

It's perfect for me, because I am not limited to the RV restriction on what I haul and I can haul anything but hazmat legally.  Personally I don't own anything hazmat, so that works for me.  I don't full time RV, so this allows me to use my truck as a truck when I'm not travelling.

I am not subject to IFTA, or commercial DOT inspections.  I do cross scales and am usually bypassed, but can be weighed.  I am tagged for my state min at 40,000# GVW and am green lighted even time.  My 5vr has its own rv tag and is not included in the truck weight.

I'm sure that I have not addressed everyone's questions, but I hope this helps whomever has interest. 

Stay safe Gentlemen. 

 

 

 

[rickeieio]

Congratulations on a VERY nice truck.

[phoenix2013]

We knew pretty quick it was not an aluminum hitch, put a mag drill on it and it stuck. Plus the fact that the engine hoist was groaning.

[13speed]

This thread has been mostly misinformation repeated over and over so I would like to fix a couple of things. 

1. A hitch does come standard but if anyone actually looked at my post above showing the spec sheet from my new, on order Volvo you would see that they can be deleted for a credit as easy as ABC-123. There is nothing special to do no magic or wizardry needed. There is also no stopping the production line to omit a hitch. Where do you guys get this shiz from?

20 hours ago, Dbl0svn1 said:

For one truck, there really s no benefit for Volvo to modify production and have the standard hitch omited.

Volvo does not care if you get a hitch or not. Obviously they are crediting me $524.00 for not getting one. I am also not getting the trailer brake handle aka "Johnson bar" and a bunch of other stuff I do not need. One truck gets a standard Jost slider the next gets a holland fixed and the next gets something else and mine will not get one.......It does not matter to the production line as every truck is different. 

[NoDirectionHome]

Quote

2. How could anyone have looked at that hitch and thought it was Aluminum? Obviously no one here has ever seen a Alcoa 5th wheel or that mistake would not have been made. They are so different looking that it is impossible not to be able tell them apart. The biggest clue is that they are made out of Aluminum..........

I have an aluminum 5th and from the shine in the 2nd pic of the first post, and what looks like a no-lube insert on top, it sure looks like an aluminum hitch to me.  The perceived tone of your post reminds me of the saying "those of you that think you know everything, are annoying to those of us that do".  

[MrSeas]

I'm sorry I didn't see your spec sheet in this thread.... could you post a link to it?

[13speed]

23 minutes ago, NoDirectionHome said:

I have an aluminum 5th and from the shine in the 2nd pic of the first post, and what looks like a no-lube insert on top, it sure looks like an aluminum hitch to me.  The perceived tone of your post reminds me of the saying "those of you that think you know everything, are annoying to those of us that do".  

I surely don't know everything and I am a bit tired right now (old guy went kayaking) but this thread was killing me. The crap that was getting re-gurged and then re-posted. Even a super smart guy like Jack was spouting out incorrect info and when he says something people treat it like the gospel and repeat it over and over. It also ticked me that I went to the trouble to show everyone that the hitch was not required but no one read it and everyone just kept being stupid about it.

I will add that I only post if I have some factual knowledge of the issue. 

 

20 minutes ago, MrSeas said:

I'm sorry I didn't see your spec sheet in this thread.... could you post a link to it?

First post of page 2. It is only a small screen shot but it backs up what I was saying. If you want to see more I will share.

[Dbl0svn1]

The trolley brake is a line option that you have to order if you want it.  I have one.

[13speed]

On 7/4/2017 at 6:14 PM, Dbl0svn1 said:

The trolly brake is a line oprion that you have to order if you want it.  I have one.

I have never heard it called a trolly brake?? As far as my order my salesman had to delete it.

[Dbl0svn1]

1 hour ago, 13speed said:

I have never heard it called a trolly brake?? As far as my order my salesman had to delete it.

That's what I thought.  You do know less than you present,  and you are disrespectful in the process.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

I started working on semi trucks back in the early 70's and even though I quit working on them, I have been around them a lot and never heard them called a trolley brake.

Hand brake, trailer brake or most commonly Johnson bar is what they were called. Around our shop, everyone called them Johnson bars.

Trolley brakes is what the conductor on a San Franciso trolley uses to stop and pick up passengers.

[Dbl0svn1]

They're all slang terms, nicknames, or product names for a modulating control valve.  

[GeorgiaHybrid]

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 9:45 AM, Jack Mayer said:

David, the problem is with the fairings, as Scrap said. But I suppose I was too strong on my point. Some dealers could definitely get it done, it is just more difficult and you have to find one willing to go the extra mile for you. There are a lot of little things like that. As you know. You can order a truck that is intended to put a box/body on - that is done every day, as you note. But it induces things in the "system" that may not be what you want and you will have to try to work through them. Some dealers are able to, and some are not.  Some dealers will also not deliver to a retail customer but only to a second stage manufacturer.  It varies a lot.  That is what you have to watch out for, which really was my major point that I did not make well. And in no way do I want to discourage people from ordering their own new trucks. It is not rocket science, you just have to be very detailed, find a dealer willing to work out the issues, and persevere.  The tradeoff between a new truck and a newer-vintage used is not that great when you consider singling and other preemptive mechanical work you would want to perform on the used truck. In the case of the truck I just bought with 200K miles on the clock the difference is about 40K. And it can be somewhat less, depending on costs (of truck and conversion). If you intend to own the truck a long time it makes financial sense to consider a new one. 

Jack,

If you have a dealer that is not willing to sell to a customer, they will not be in business very long. There are a LOT of owner operators out there with just a single truck. If they are not interested in spending time with you, find another dealer. You have to engage the dealer, get them interested in the project and, if they are a good fit, they will get excited and onboard with what you are trying to do. In my case, I wanted either a Freightliner Cascadia or a Kenworth. This was after visiting and driving a Volvo, Mack and a Peterbilt (nope, International wasn't an option with me). None of the other dealers had an issue but the trucks were not what we wanted.

Both the Freightliner and the Kenworth guys got behind the project and came up with options that I hadn't considered before that were incorporated into the spec sheet. I did have a HUGE advantage with Scrap behind the scenes working on some of the crazy stuff we added to our truck for the initial spec sheet and he also reviewed and offered suggestions with every revision of the specs. In the end, I made some changes myself where the dealer or Scrap had something different but that was on things that I wanted.

An example was gearing. The KW dealer suggested a lower speed gear, Scrap a higher speed gear and I was in the middle. When spec'ing a truck, you have the advantage of seeing the gradeability every 100 rpms in each gear for the load you have spec'd, speed in each gear, shift points, frame layouts, weight distribution, rake front to rear and a lot of other items. This is where the person ordering the truck needs to know how fast they want to run and how much weight they are wanting to pull. Even though I went my own way on a lot of the items, what the dealer suggested and what Scrap suggested would have worked as well.

Bottom line? If you have a dealer that is hesitant to work with you, find another dealer. This is just like buying a car but with a few more options involved. Ask around on the forums for help, there are a LOT of us on here that have bought new trucks that are willing to share spec sheets and explain the process and why we made the decisions we did.

[Jack Mayer]

Very, very true, Dave.  You have to find a good dealer and then you have to dig into the details that they can help you with. There are lots and lots of ways to proceed. The "job" of a person ordering a custom truck is to pick through and get the things on there that they want/need from the myriad of options. Knowing your loads and intended speeds is a good start, because everything that is "in motion" starts there. As I said, it is not rocket science, but it does require time and detail.