Do you see anything wrong in these pictures

[dennisvr]

Was at the Tech inspection today for the Parker 425 off road race in Parker AZ and came up on a couple rigs like this.

These pictures were of one of Robby Gordons rigs and it was registered in CA.

 

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

And they are the ones that are killing us as REAL rv'ers.

 

[BlueLghtning]

I saw that rig at the Quartszite RV show and thought the same thing. How in the world is he not commercial. 

[alan0043]

If those guys are smart, they will stay away from the Houston area. I don't think they can carry enough Dr. Pepper to talk their way out of any stop. lol.

Al

[beyerjf]

I agree he certainly looks and quacks like a commercial vehicle. But decals alone do not make it that way.  We have several guys with custom trailers who come to our Studebaker Club shows with their own cars inside and all kinds of Studebaker decals on the side. Like Big 5er says, it is the usage, not the equipment.

[noteven]

Doesn’t the IRS define “commercial” enterprise? 

[beemergary]

I go to NMCA Drag races. You wouldn't believe the HDT rigs that pull in. Lots of guys with deep pockets. JEGG's like Summit Racing (big aftermarket racing products) Got a ticket in Mi. awile back cause driver had no cdl. The rig is 80+++ ft' long and there company name in huge letters on side. Commercial  Go Figure---- Iam just a lightweight. You now need a $20 permit in Florida if over 60 ft.

[GlennWest]

I raced cars for years in NC. Company sponsor painted all over car. No CDL, never an issue. And we were an accident waiting to happen.  Young and dumb. Won money but spent lot more than won too. Had a lot of fun though

[Big5er]

6 hours ago, alan0043 said:

If those guys are smart, they will stay away from the Houston area. I don't think they can carry enough Dr. Pepper to talk their way out of any stop. lol.

Al

He can't afford that amount of Dr. Pepper

4 hours ago, beyerjf said:

I agree he certainly looks and quacks like a commercial vehicle. But decals alone do not make it that way.  We have several guys with custom trailers who come to our Studebaker Club shows with their own cars inside and all kinds of Studebaker decals on the side. Like Big 5er says, it is the usage, not the equipment.

Robert W. "Robby" Gordon is an American racecar driver. He has raced in NASCAR, CART, IndyCar, Trans-Am, IMSA, IROC and Dakar Rally. He currently competes in the Speed Energy Formula Off-Road series, a series that he had created in 2013.

Oh, I just love these sort of rigs Jeff.
"But I'm an RV!! It says so on the door."   "yeah, so what?"

[Stickman81]

As a noob, I don't quite understand this case of RV versus Commercial.

Is it the length of the overall vehicle or is it the stickers?
Or, is it because the rig is used for work instead of pleasure?

If it is a "work" thing, then what about the folks that work over the internet while traveling the road with their HDT and trailer?

Sorry for the seemingly silly questions.

TIA,
Jim

 

[beemergary]

9 hours ago, GlennWest said:

I raced cars for years in NC. Company sponsor painted all over car. No CDL, never an issue. And we were an accident waiting to happen.  Young and dumb. Won money but spent lot more than won too. Had a lot of fun though

JEGG'S are the only one I know of getting hasseled. Like they where looking for trouble. Cost um $1500.00 Got to be careful in Florida and have $20 permit. Heard of guys getting pulled over in north or south carolinal for over weight car hauling trailers. Its real easy to do that. Tools-fuel-golf carts-etc-etc. I belong to a couple old truck groups. Your actually better off not even putting Not For Hire or RV lettering on truck.

 

[SuiteSuccess]

1 hour ago, Stickman81 said:

As a noob, I don't quite understand this case of RV versus Commercial.

Is it the length of the overall vehicle or is it the stickers?
Or, is it because the rig is used for work instead of pleasure?

If it is a "work" thing, then what about the folks that work over the internet while traveling the road with their HDT and trailer?

Sorry for the seemingly silly questions.

TIA,
Jim

 

Jim,

This is a discussion that has been had multiple times over many years on this forum.  It often times is very heated.  It doesn’t lie with length or axles or stickers, etc.  It lies with use of the vehicle.  If it’s primary use is to obtain something of value for it’s owner whether that be money, goods, or services then it is most likely going to be looked at as commercial and must follow the DOT rules.  So the fact the above picture shows “Registered RV Not For Hire” is meaningless if that truck is pulling a trailer to a race with a car designed to make the owner money.  We have some folks on this forum who are well informed about commercial vs. non-commercial by way of their vocation.  I’ll not name any names because that has created a furor in the past because others on this forum feel they know just as much because of experience, reading or divine knowledge.  Your question about the trailer being used by mobile workers has been addressed before.  I believe (if I recall correctly the discussion) if the primary use of the trailer was business such as a mobile office, then it would be deemed commercial.  However, if the primary use is for living and you work from “your home” then it is not commercial.  If I’m wrong someone will chime in.  Also Jim there are no silly questions, but don’t be surprised if an innocent question sometimes sparks a war.  Commercial vs. non-commercial is one of those topics.

[Jemstone]

26 minutes ago, Stickman81 said:

As a noob, I don't quite understand this case of RV versus Commercial.

Is it the length of the overall vehicle or is it the stickers?
Or, is it because the rig is used for work instead of pleasure?

If it is a "work" thing, then what about the folks that work over the internet while traveling the road with their HDT and trailer?

Sorry for the seemingly silly questions.

TIA,
Jim

 

It’s simple Jim - a commercial truck owner, registering as an RV, is avoiding the taxes for a commercial truck and possibly the need for a CDL.  The misuse of the RV registration throws doubt on all of us driving full sized trucks that are used as RVs for short trips.  Creating suspicion about the legitimacy of our non-commercial status could lead to having to carry cases of Dr. Pepper when traveling in Texas.  Here in Arizona it matters not what a privately owned truck is used for, only what it weighs.  

In 1969, while driving for Yellow Cab in Phoenix, I bought an agitated can of Dr. Pepper and opened it after I got back in the cab.  I realized it was agitated only after I pulled the tab.  Most of the can shot straight up and spread out on the headliner, raining soda evenly throughout the cab.  I have not opened a Dr. Pepper in a vehicle since.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

To add to Suites reply, 

It is the INTENT of the vehicle that determines it's commercial/non-commercial status.  If the INTENT was to go and advance your business thru marketing, advertising, winnings, profit, etc then you are commercial.

As Suite said,  this is a hot topic on most forums and especially this one.

[GlennWest]

I always spending money on mine. What's the term, Work in progress. 

[Big5er]

This topic can also generate a lot of inaccurate information from many well intentioned people.

1 hour ago, Jemstone said:

Here in Arizona it matters not what a privately owned truck is used for, only what it weighs.  

Even in Arizona a typical dump truck owned and registered by an individual, under his own name, would be a "privately" owned truck. That 3 axle, dump truck weighs roughly the same and has the same GVWR as a 3 axle, HDT used exclusively for recreational purposes yet one would be considered commercial and require a CDL while the other wouldn't (AZ 28-3102). So in certain situations usage does matter, as does weight and other applicable state laws.  

There is no "one answer does all" for intrastate usage but for interstate use, it is the usage of an HDT that determines whether the vehicle is subject to the Federal Commercial Regulations or not. 

[Steve from SoCal]

And,

 

Let's put a little finer point on it.     Anybody with a racing rig that has a full wrap with their racing stuff all over sponsor or no sponsor lettering is NOT a Escapee or God Sammer looking for the next KOA.     These are the people that ruin it for the "true" RV heavy haulers.    

How in the heck could this monstrosity be registered in CALIFORNIA as an RV?    Chad?

 

Steve 

[Randyretired]

I sometimes use my HDT to haul my backhoe for my personal use.  I do not contract or do anything commercial with it.  It is used on my property only.  Lately I have been thinking about getting a little bit newer backhoe but it seems that many of the ones that I like are out of state.  So far I have been reluctant to cross state lines pulling a small flatbed trailer.  I wonder if one could drive across state lines and reasonably expect to go without a ticket or be put out of service?  When we are RVing it is reasonable to assume we are not commercial but a flatbed and a backhoe might be pushing it to far.

[I'mdonewiththis forum]

As long as you own the hoe and are not contracting you won't be commercial. but, that may be a tougher sell to a DOT officer.

[Randyretired]

35 minutes ago, Mntom said:

As long as you own the hoe and are not contracting you won't be commercial. but, that may be a tougher sell to a DOT officer.

I agree with you.  I believe it is completely legal but convincing a DOT officer could be a challenge.  An out of state ticket can be a hassle if not expensive and if they put me out of service that might be worse.

[I'mdonewiththis forum]

If you have a registration for the trailer in your name and a bill of sale in your name I would suspect you could explain what you are doing and be fine.

[Big5er]

Randy, how is your HDT registered? Truck or MH?

[Randyretired]

Big5er. My truck is registered as a recreational truck.  In Colorado you can just declare use and register it as recreational.  A MH registration is also possible, with the required items but it costs the same.  Neither require more than a regular drivers license.  I am looking forward to your opinion.

[Big5er]

Randy, you and Tom have already hit the highlights. I work in a heavily populated area. Not many "personal" backhoes here. 

The reason I asked about your registration is that the Fed Regs exempting you from CDL apply to "recreational vehicles" ( before anyone gets their panties in a wad, I am only talking about CDL and Interstate usage.) so if your truck was registered as a "truck" and you were pulling a flatbed you could realistically need a CDL to go get that out of state backhoe since neither vehicle would be a "recreational vehicle". The rest of that exemption is, of course,  for when your "recreational vehicle" is used "strictly for non-business purposes". The reason I am only talking about CDL and not the truck is because the exemptions from one section to the other are different and the CDL section specifically states " The exceptions contained in §390.3(f) of this subchapter do not apply to this part." So that one line means that, in certain circumstances, your truck might be exempt from the Fed Regs while you are not. 

So now you are back to: Can you convince them that you are towing a backhoe, with your recreational vehicle,  for "strictly for non-business purposes"?

[Chad Heiser]

19 hours ago, Steve from SoCal said:

And,

 

Let's put a little finer point on it.     Anybody with a racing rig that has a full wrap with their racing stuff all over sponsor or no sponsor lettering is NOT a Escapee or God Sammer looking for the next KOA.     These are the people that ruin it for the "true" RV heavy haulers.    

How in the heck could this monstrosity be registered in CALIFORNIA as an RV?    Chad?

 

Steve 

If I had to guess, I would say it was registered that way 4 or more years ago when people were still able to get a title conversion done.  The other possibility (but less likely) is that it is considered a truck conversion (like a renegade or similar) because it no longer has a hitch above the frame.  It’s hard to tell from the picture.  There is obviously no 5th wheel hitch, but I can’t tell if there is a gooseneck hitch in the tunnel or not.  If you notice, it is hitched to a bumper pull trailer so maybe it doesn’t have a hitch above the frame to make it a truck tractor.