ToddF Posted December 29, 2020 Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 This is a good read on hydrogen power and how it could be developed to power trucks, RVs, and cars. It's fascinating to read about an ordinary guy using hydrogen to power his home and vehicles. https://nyti.ms/3nVEUmj I read many of the comments and got conflicting feedback. Some say it has environmental concerns with the ozone layer. I'm not educated enough to know whether or not this is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcussen Posted December 29, 2020 Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 Good article, hydrogen does have many advantages over batteries in many cases, but the cost of production and the cost of distribution is why it is not more popular. Quote Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM 1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddF Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 My guess is that his solar panels and other equipment ran into the 6 figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packnrat Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) hydrogen.... remember the Hindenburg. one spark and no way to put out the fire. then the pressure vessel you would need for your fuel tank. support.. there is none. at least propane is everywhere. but it is a junk fuel. then any compressed gas fuel is not very good at altitude or in the cold. and in his story, hydrogen "only puts out" heck in theory even the good ol gasoline motor is not supposed to put out any "smog gasses". Edited December 30, 2020 by packnrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 Isn't the "exhaust" of a H fuel cell H2O? Quote "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 51 minutes ago, noteven said: Isn't the "exhaust" of a H fuel cell H2O? Only if the hydrogen was "created" using renewable energy. It's gaining, but there's still a lot of coal and natural gas fired powerplants. Quote I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Schneider Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) On 12/30/2020 at 9:57 AM, packnrat said: hydrogen.... remember the Hindenburg. one spark and no way to put out the fire. Look again at the Hindenburg. Which way are the flames going after the hydrogen cells ruptured? Straight up and away from people on the ground. Compare that to a gasoline tank truck fire where the flames are spreading out across the ground - if the tank itself doesn't explode. All fuel sources have hazards, we're just used to the risks posed by common ones. Edited December 31, 2020 by Lou Schneider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrschwarz Posted January 1, 2021 Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 I saw a program on Nova many years ago about hydrogen. It's one of the safest flammable gases around. The big problems are storage and production. Since it is the lightest element known, it is difficult, but not impossible to store enough in a car to give it a reasonable range. As someone said earlier, since there is no carbon to combine with oxygen, the only byproduct of combustion is water. Quote Michael 2017 Allegro Bus 45OPP Cummins ISL 450 Visit us at schwarz.org! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcussen Posted January 1, 2021 Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) Looks like the new Honda Clarity can go 360 miles on a tank of hydrogen. Finding a hydrogen station will be a problem for a while. https://automobiles.honda.com/clarity-fuel-cell/specs-features-trim-comparison Edited January 1, 2021 by jcussen Quote Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM 1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whj469 Posted January 2, 2021 Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 I have worked at a hydrogen/carbon monoxide plant in Texas for Air Products and Chemicals. I was many years ago but I know that it has not changed much since then and hydrogen is volatile. Much more so then propane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted January 2, 2021 Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 Propane is safer than gasoline. Hydrogen vs gasoline? Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcussen Posted January 2, 2021 Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 10000 psi tank pressure.https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/5-things-know-when-filling-your-fuel-cell-electric-vehicle Quote Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM 1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_ Posted January 2, 2021 Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) Mike Strizki was one of my early alternative energy heroes. I used to post this video here 2006 on a lot. This Hopewell project in NJ is what put Mike on the map publicly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr7bRSbwfIg&feature=emb_logo We have the infrastructure for charging EVs, in every home. None for hydrogen. Toyota, a big hydrogen player, just recently conceded and switched direction to Electrics. MIT has cracked the code for fusion power cheaper and safer than fission. This is new and the first power plant should be demonstrated in 2025 - just five years down the road. These papers and findings have been peer reviewed and are under development now. Excerpt: "09.29.2020 New Scientific Papers Predict Historic Results for Commonwealth Fusion Systems’ Approach to Commercial Fusion Energy Cambridge, MA – September 29, 2020 – Commonwealth Fusion Systems (CFS), a company commercializing fusion energy, today announced a groundbreaking series of seven papers published and peer reviewed in a special edition of the Journal of Plasma Physics validating CFS’ approach to commercial fusion energy. The papers, written in collaboration with MIT’s Plasma Science and Fusion Center (PSFC) and available to public at no cost, are the first peer reviewed publications from any private commercial fusion company that verifies a compact fusion device will achieve net energy where the plasma generates more fusion power than used to start and sustain the process, the requirement for a fusion power plant. CFS is collaborating with MIT’s PSFC to design and build SPARC, the world’s first net energy (Q>1) fusion system. SPARC is being designed with the collective and proven knowledge of the world’s fusion programs, using well established plasma physics as well as cutting-edge tools that include advanced simulations, data analysis, and science from existing machines. These papers are the result of more than two years of work by the team to refine the SPARC design, which is now entering its final stages. The papers apply the same physics rules and simulations used to design ITER and interpret results from existing experiments to predict SPARC’s performance based on the anticipated engineering design. The results show that SPARC will achieve its goal (Q>2) with considerable margin. The joint team of world-leading experts include those who worked on the design for ITER, as well as groups from national labs, centers, and universities around the world. Both ITER and SPARC are tokamaks, a device that uses a magnetic field to confine the fusion process. However, SPARC will use new high temperature superconducting (HTS) magnets to enable a similar performance as ITER but built more than 10 times smaller and on a significantly faster timeline. The papers also predict that SPARC will very likely achieve a burning plasma for the first time on earth, meaning the fusion process will be dominantly self-heating. This is a major multi-decade goal of the world’s scientific community. “These are concrete public predictions that when we build SPARC, the machine will produce net energy and even high gain fusion from the plasma. That is a necessary condition to build a fusion power plant for which the world has been waiting decades,” said CFS CEO Bob Mumgaard, PhD. “The combination of established plasma physics, new innovative magnets, and reduced scale opens new possibilities for commercial fusion energy in time to make a difference for climate change. This is a major milestone for the company and for the global clean tech effort as we work to get commercial fusion energy on the grid as fast as possible” CFS and MIT’s PSFC are also now constructing the advanced magnets that will allow CFS to build significantly smaller and lower-cost fusion power plants. This collaboration is on track to demonstrate a successful 20 Tesla, large-bore magnet in 2021. This magnet test, the first of its kind in the world, opens a widely identified transformational opportunity for commercial fusion energy. These magnets will then be used in SPARC, which is on track to begin construction in 2021 and demonstrate net energy gain from fusion for the first time in history by 2025. SPARC will pave the way for the first commercially viable fusion power plant called ARC." Source: https://cfs.energy/news-and-media/new-scientific-papers-predict-historic-results-for Edited January 2, 2021 by RV_ Quote RV/Derekhttp://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.Retired AF 1971-1998 When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justRich Posted January 3, 2021 Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 "Hydrogen embrittlement" of steel has long been a problem. I know little about that - but, I read a recent article that claimed the embrittlement problem has been solved. If so, perhaps it will make a difference? Quote ~Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermilye Posted January 3, 2021 Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 While the future of hydrogen powered RVs probably depends on the availability of fuel stops, I've seen hydrogen powered 18 wheelers on some of the western interstates for a few years. Usually UPS trucks... Quote Travel photos RV Blogs Journals & Travelogues at:http://www.lakeshoreimages.com My Travel Blog - Jon's Journeys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted January 3, 2021 Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 1 hour ago, vermilye said: I've seen hydrogen powered 18 wheelers on some of the western interstates for a few years. Who is building them and who operates them? I did find one article about TSI using them. Putting hydrogen fuel cell trucks to work I have been unable to find any other articles on them. Quote Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcussen Posted January 3, 2021 Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 Walmart is using fuel cell forklifts now. https://www.mhlnews.com/powered-vehicles-and-forklifts/article/22049837/walmart-expands-its-fuel-cell-infrastructure Quote Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM 1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted January 3, 2021 Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 The big reason I frond on EVs is charging them. If I on a trip, I don't want to wait a long time at fillups. I like the idea of hydrogen. Fill up and be on my way. Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcussen Posted January 3, 2021 Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 Tesla's megacharger for semi's can charge 400 miles in 30 minutes. Of course not many around now and only practical for a-b and b-a type routes, but who knows in 20 years. But I can see truck stops with massive underground hydrogen tanks, but producing the hydrogen and transporting to the truck stops will still be a problem for a while. https://electrek.co/2018/02/02/tesla-semi-electric-truck-customers-megacharger-charging-station/ Quote Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM 1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_ Posted January 3, 2021 Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 This quote from Kirk's article: "The North American Council for Freight Efficiency's (NACFE) latest Guidance Report, Viable Class 7/8 Electric, Hybrid, and Alternative Fuel Tractors, noted that commercial battery electric vehicles and fuel cell trucks will be capable of lower total cost of ownership in the 2030 timeframe." Source: https://www.fleetowner.com/running-green/article/21130119/putting-hydrogen-fuel-cell-trucks-to-work Then hydrogen powered fuel cells turning an electric motor will still require a fueling infrastructure. Quote RV/Derekhttp://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.Retired AF 1971-1998 When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted January 3, 2021 Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, jcussen said: Tesla's megacharger for semi's can charge 400 miles in 30 minutes. Of course not many around now and only practical for a-b and b-a type routes, but who knows in 20 years. But I can see truck stops with massive underground hydrogen tanks, but producing the hydrogen and transporting to the truck stops will still be a problem for a while. https://electrek.co/2018/02/02/tesla-semi-electric-truck-customers-megacharger-charging-station/ 20 years from I might not be around. Edited January 4, 2021 by GlennWest Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcussen Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, GlennWest said: 20 years from I might not be around. In some some states, you won't be able to buy a new gas car or pickup either. https://electrek.co/2020/09/23/california-ban-sale-new-ice-cars-in-2035/#:~:text=Why not sooner%3F,-Jameson Dow&text=California Governor Gavin News Quote Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM 1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) But that's crazy california. Also don't they import all their electricity. Edited January 4, 2021 by GlennWest Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcussen Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 hours ago, GlennWest said: But that's crazy california. Also don't they import all their electricity. You are right. Texas is probably safe, but the future is uncertain. https://www.forbes.com/sites/pikeresearch/2020/11/04/ice-bans-begin-to-take-shape-in-the-us/?sh=6a7d9a933e17 Quote Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM 1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 I believe I would get a hybrid if needed one today. Not enough infurstructure for ev or hydrogen at this time. Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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