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Eliminate rear inner wheels ?


alan0043

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Hi Everyone,

 

I have a question or too. Is it possible to eliminate the rear inner wheels ? You would still keeping the truck tandem. It would be like putting on super singles but not as wide of tread. I keeping thinking that there could be some problems. But I can not put my finger on what the problem could be. Maybe bearings, axles, seals, etc.. Has this idea been discussed before. If this has been discussed please post a link to this subject. I am not planning on doing this, but was just curious. Anyone spend a night or too in a Holiday Express.

 

Thank you for any help,

Al

2012 Volvo VNL 630 w/ I-Shift; D13 engine; " Veeger "
  Redwood, model 3401R ; 5th Wheel Trailer, " Dead Wood "
    2006 Smart Car " Killer Frog "
 

 

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Al,

 

It has been discussed but I can't provide the link now. Some people are actually doing it and may chime in. Scrap had a comment though if my memory serves me correct that it does add some abnormal stresses to the things you mentioned. Will see if I can find the post. Here it is Al.

http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=119285&hl=scrap#entry792288

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

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Al,

 

It has been discussed but I can't provide the link now. Some people are actually doing it and may chime in. Scrap had a comment though if my memory serves me correct that it does add some abnormal stresses to the things you mentioned. Will see if I can find the post. Here it is Al.

http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=119285&hl=scrap#entry792288

 

Carl,

 

Thank You for the link. It has been quite helpful.

 

Al

 

Mark, Thank You for your help also.

2012 Volvo VNL 630 w/ I-Shift; D13 engine; " Veeger "
  Redwood, model 3401R ; 5th Wheel Trailer, " Dead Wood "
    2006 Smart Car " Killer Frog "
 

 

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Short answer: NO, you'll kill the outer wheel bearing if you don't change the wheel offset. Also your brake balance will be way too biased towards the rear

"There are No Experts, Do the Math!"

2014 Freightliner Cascadia DD16 600hp  1850ft-lb  18spd  3.31  260"wb
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Short answer: NO, you'll kill the outer wheel bearing if you don't change the wheel offset. Also your brake balance will be way too biased towards the rear

Wrknvr may disagree with you on this as he has been running this way for years. Hopefully he will chime in.

 

Dave

2005 Freightliner Century S/T, Singled, Air ride ET Jr. hitch
2019 46'+ Dune Sport Man Cave custom 5th wheel toy hauler
Owner of the 1978 Custom Van "Star Dreamer" which might be seen at a local car show near you!

 

Check out http://www.hhrvresource.com/

for much more info on HDT's.

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If I recall previous discussions correctly, if you're single axle, you'll likely overload the hub bearings by running only the outside tires. HOWEVER, if you're still tandem, that's very unlikely, given our comparatively light loads.

 

Will you now have too much brake for the tire contact patch? Maybe, but better than too little. And if you have ABS, it's a moot point.

 

In the end, you can make the case many ways, most of them having a huge margin of safety in our application.

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Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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Wrknvr may disagree with you on this as he has been running this way for years. Hopefully he will chime in.

The laws of physics are strictly enforced: http://www.conmet.com/pdfs/bulletins/10009934-RevF-12142011.pdf

"There are No Experts, Do the Math!"

2014 Freightliner Cascadia DD16 600hp  1850ft-lb  18spd  3.31  260"wb
SpaceCraft S-470
SKP #131740

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You also lose some of the softening of potholes that a parallel pair of tires offers. This is more personal preference, though.

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You need to look at your rear axle. Locate where the outer bearing is. Just inside the end of the axle is where it is located.

Then think about where the inner bearing is. It will be located just to the inside of where the two rear wheels bolt on.

The brake shoes and attaching hardware is to the inside of the bearings.

 

Then go find a rear axle that has the brake drum off of it. That will give you much better idea of how they are built.

 

As for the pictures in the resource guide, they give a false location on most axles unless you have an axle that was for single wheels.

 

I have seen 10 trucks in one day in Florida loaded from a quarry with just the outer tire and wheel on them. It was a third axle.

When we stayed in Florida during the winters I got to know a mechanic that worked at one of the quarries there. I asked him about it and he did really see problems with a single tire setup.

 

They haul petroleum products here in Montana every day with the the second tank trailer with single outer wheel, on standard axles.

 

And it will turn on the front axle when load with jeep. It does not turn on the rear axle when hooked up to the 5th wheel. It turns in the middle of the two axles wheel fully loaded.

 

10 years and counting with only the outer wheels.

 

Smoother ride with 1/2 the side walls on the same amount of unstrung weight.

 

Stop in Kalispell Montana and we can look at all the above situation that I have talked about.

 

And just for some more info.

We were involved in an accident in 2007 that our truck was laying on its side after a tanker tuck hit us. There were 5 state troopers and more local police at the scene. They never said or had anything in there report stating about single rear wheels.

The insurance company never asked about single rear wheels. I sent them 119 pictures of the accident as it was not our fault.

 

But I could be wrong,,, Vern

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One thing to remember as well, if you happen to blow a tire you are stranded. With dual wheels you can still go down the road once you remove or eliminate the blown tire. Gets you to a truck stop in ay case. Blown single gets you stranded calling a tow truck.

Kevin

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Hi Everyone,

 

There is some interesting conversion going on. Please keep the conversion going on. I am learning.

 

Al

2012 Volvo VNL 630 w/ I-Shift; D13 engine; " Veeger "
  Redwood, model 3401R ; 5th Wheel Trailer, " Dead Wood "
    2006 Smart Car " Killer Frog "
 

 

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Just install your spare. I had a tire problem once. Told the other couple that was traveling with us that we now had some exercise to do.

Just like at the YMCA.

 

Now you are limited by the weight that your tires will carry not what a single axle will carry

 

Safe Trales. Vern

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You see a LOT of single rear axle trucks on the road so singling isn't an un-explainable alteration but, with the exception of trucks with super single tires, how many trucks do you see running only one tire on an axle designed for two? Even trucks hauling minimal weight still run two tires on their axles. As cheap as some truckers are and as much money as they try to save, don't you think more of them would have thought of this idea?

Of course I work in a state where driving with a tire removed is illegal but in 10 years of inspecting trucks, I have NEVER seen one and I see a lot of trucks from all over.

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
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2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin
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When I was tandem, I removed the inner tires on the center axle. Put the wheels back on with no tires to maintain stud spacing. The ONLY difference I noticed after I put some mileage on the set-up was that I was wearing the tread on the single center axle tires much faster than the dual rears. Hummm........ I found that interesting. I did hope that I might get a little extra on the MPG side, but in the end there was no difference. I also thought losing some un-sprung weight would improve ride - unfortunately I did not find this to be true either. I do understand that you are thinking about removing the inner tire on the rear axle, not the center. Are you planning on leaving the center dual? Or, are you thinking of removing all of the inner tires? An inquiring mind wants to know :). BTW - to me the best place to carry a spare tire is on the axle. Those suckers are heavy and beyond my ability to hoist. They also take up a lot of room on the bed or behind the cab. I thought about just a tire with no wheel as a spare - but they fill up with water and host mosquitoes. Not sure how Vern does his spare. I think the is stronger than I am as well...... :rolleyes: .

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"The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks.

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City service Valcon delivers petroleum products in the north western states. They have some of there second short tankers with just the outside tire. I think that there weight overall is limiting what can be in the rear tank so they do not need the second tire on the front axle of the rear tanker.

They do have a service lot just south of Kalispell Montana where they normally have a dozen or so trucks parked a time. We I get to Kalispell this week I will see if I can find any single tired trailers

Just passed a Town Pump fuel delivery truck. They service a lot of Montana at there service stations. The second trailer from Town Pump did have super single on it.

I will note any single tired vehicles I in the next week or so and post for your info.

I will also search what quarry company near Brooksville Florida that runs the third axle with one tire.

As I said before I may be wrong but there are trucks out there that are wrong also.

 

Safe travels. Vern

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My helper ( the other rving driver that was following along) that helped me change the tire by hand may not thought much of that idea. He said call Coach net. Well I was the nearest service company for them to call.

I do some service work for coach net in my business so we changed it.

 

The beer was good that night..

 

Safe travels. Vern

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Cemenx quarry's in Brooksville Fl run some axles with just the outer wheel. I researched Cemex and they operate in about 50 countries so thy are not just an individual like me.

 

We are planning a week or two in the Brooksville fl this fall so will ,report on single tired axles at that time.

 

 

O crap I think I better travel around Texas on our way to Arizona this fall as there will be all points bulletin out for a white Volvo with a jeep on the back.

 

Be nice Big5er if you see me, Safe Travels, Vern

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Cemenx quarry's in Brooksville Fl run some axles with just the outer wheel. I researched Cemex and they operate in about 50 countries so thy are not just an individual like me.

 

Be nice Big5er if you see me, Safe Travels, Vern

We have a lot of Cemex trucks here that run a drop axle and a stringer. The drop and the stinger are both made for one tire but the rear tandem (that would technically be axle 3 &4 with the drop being #2 and the stinger being #5) are both made for dual tires.

 

And I am always nice Vern :) Believe it or not I have references :lol:

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin
2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 

2014 smart Fortwo

 

 
 
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As long as it meets the table in the bulletin it is still legit. For most trucks here with an aluminum R hub and your every day 883642 Alcoa wheel that would be legit rating at 9000lbs an axle and below. Strong Arms, Boost-a-Loads, Bridgemasters are legit at 12K (GAW wise, not always state wise) because they are an F hub and inboard. The tag axle you commonly see on 4 axle trailers with the single wheels on the back in WA, OR, MT is really only there to push weight up to the 5th wheel. Even though it is a 12K axle it really can't do much over 8-10K or your bridge is messed up somewhere else on the truck. So per the table since it is below 11,000 it is legit as a single outboard. Stinger steered pup trailers or RMD's with a tandem dolly are a similar story. You've got a 20K-47K trailer spread over 4 axles. If you've got a dedicated load and can keep that front dolly axle under 11K you can outboard mount some rims and be legit. Roomer has it that you can back up a lot straighter too. So yea it is pretty common on trailers up here.

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Net Proceeds is tandem rear. Six years ago I removed the inner tire/wheels on the forward axle. Now some sixty thousand miles later I'm still pleased with the decision. I don't carry a spare as I figure I have one...either one of the rear axle ones, gained .4 mile per gallon, all rears are first run recaps...never had a on road tire problem. Your results may vary. Jay

J&V with Edina (RIP), the wonder dobie and
Net Proceeds our 2005 Volvo VNL630 256" WB. Focus SVT on the back, in the garage. ET Hitch controlling the articulation. Jackalopee controlling the 'juice'. 2002 Teton 39' Grand Sundance
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Net Proceeds is tandem rear. Six years ago I removed the inner tire/wheels on the forward axle. Now some sixty thousand miles later I'm still pleased with the decision. I don't carry a spare as I figure I have one...either one of the rear axle ones, gained .4 mile per gallon, all rears are first run recaps...never had a on road tire problem. Your results may vary. Jay

Jay you continue as a pioneer with Jack, Phoenix, and Mark&Dale Bruss. I always seem to learn from you.

 

Rod

White 2000/2010Volvo VNL 770 with 7' Drom box with opposing doors,  JOST slider hitch. 600 HP Cummins Signature 18 Speed three pedal auto shift.

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