Cost effective full four season 5er list

[travelrider73]

Hi everyone!

 

We're trying to figure out which brands would qualify as full four seasons and are cost effective (under $50k for the 5er) . Our next few years possibly include a full year (including winter) in Denver and a year in Austin, so we need plenty of insulation, A/C, and heat.

 

We'd love to just write a big check for a New Horizons for Forks, but that's just not in the budget, so what brand(s) would you all recommend?

 

I'm thinking Teton, Newmar, Carriage, or an older New Horizons. Am I on the right track? Are the older New Horizons as well built as the new ones? The new ones sure look prettier on the surface, but have they always had great build quality? Same question for the others.

 

What other brands would you recommend considering we really do need full 4 season capability?

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. Some of you may recognize my handle. We started looking at 5ers and HDTs about 2 years ago, but life happened and things got delayed. Well, we're starting to re-educate ourselves and will hopefully be able to pull the trigger this time around.

[GlennWest]

We are very happy with our Teton. These units are heavy though. You need to plan on that also

[travelinbob]

I would look for a used DRV product. The walls are 3-1/4" thick and they winter well.

[Big Greg]

Checkout NuWa HitchHikers at the Kansas RV Center. Although they no longer manufacturer HitchHikers they refurbish used units and sell other brands also. You can see their inventory online. The service and parts department are open and busy. If you want to get details on HitchHiker from owners go to the NuWa Owners Forum. Greg

http://www.nuwaowners.org/

http://www.kansasrvcenter.com/

[Jack Mayer]

All of the above suggestions are good ones. I'd focus on a Teton (pre 2006), or a good used DRV.

 

The older New Horizons are very well built. The current Majestic line has more insulation in the ceiling than the older ones.

 

For 50K or under you are into a good used unit in any of the lines mentioned.

[Jim Gell]

I would add Travel Supreme to your list. We like ours. It is very well built. And like Glenn said about Teton, they can be heavy.

 

Jim

[LindaH]

Also, you might want to add Excel to the list. They had a -10 degree guarantee IF it had double pane windows and the forced air furnace was run (to heat the basement).

[JustPassingThrough]

My wife and I recently did this same search for a 5er to full-time in Montana. Months of searching and climbing in every 5er brand out there brought us to our Teton. I am very nitpicky about things and from what I saw out there, nothing really compares to how solid a Teton feels, and actually is.

 

My second choice would have been an older DRV. Be sure to find out the "bum years" for the DRVs, if I remember correctly it was 2006-2008 that they had troubles with the slides.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

My wife and I recently did this same search for a 5er to full-time in Montana. Months of searching and climbing in every 5er brand out there brought us to our Teton. I am very nitpicky about things and from what I saw out there, nothing really compares to how solid a Teton feels, and actually is.

 

My second choice would have been an older DRV. Be sure to find out the "bum years" for the DRVs, if I remember correctly it was 2006-2008 that they had troubles with the slides.

 

The bulk of those units were fixed by DRV as a warranty issue and should be good to go. If in doubt, give DRV a call and have them look up the VIN number and see if they have been fixed.

[GlennWest]

As many know here we had a 2006 DRV Mobile Suites and our current Teton. The DRV does not compare in comfort with the Teton. DRV brags on their 3.5 walls with batten insulation. Blue Dow foam is better. Our Teton is draft free and easy to cool and heat. The DRV wasn't. I did pull a window and no insulation was in a wall under the window. Also drilled entry hole for cable above a window and no insulation. jfyi

[Lou Schneider]

Don' forget Northwood products - Arctic Fox, Nash and Fox Mountain.

[Dennis M]

You might look for well maintained Newmar units as well. Mountain Aire and Kountry Aire were both top line fivers and well suited for full timing. They stopped building fifth wheels after 2011. We've been spending 6 -7 months a year in our '05 Mountain Aire for 6 years and it is none the worse for wear.

[Randyretired]

We have a Teton and we like it but they are heavy (22,000 GVW) and they are all wood. Check for serious water damage. That said wintering in Denver will most likely include some uncomfortable times. Cold spells typically go below zero and -20 is certainly possible. I have heard the Teton is rated for that but I am not inclined to try it!

[Dennis M]

Missed the Denver part until I read Randy's post.

 

Last November we were in Denver for a week and picked the wrong one! Temps went like this:

 

Mon - high 65 but 12 above that evening!

Tues - low 10 high 14

Wed - low 14 below(!) high 3 above

Thurs - low 8 below High 9 above

Fri - low 1 below high 33

Sat - low 7 above high 29

Sun - low 3 Below high 29

 

We picked up some aluminum faced insulation and covered all the windows; filled the fresh tank and stowed hoses; kept both furnaces (yes, we have two - cold weather package) set at 65. Uncomfortable at night as it was too warm for us, but nothing froze and we survived. Went through three 40 lb propane tanks in 10 days. Did not use any electric heat as we wanted to keep heat moving in the belly and around the water tanks.

 

Very happy with the way the fiver survived.

 

Bottom line - be prepared for temperature extremes in Denver!

[Randyretired]

Yep and temps can swing colder in Dec through Feb. Denvers temps vary a lot as 60's are also possible during this time. However I have seen temps below freezing day and night for 2 weeks straight. Some use RV's in these temps and colder but water and comfort can be a problem. Propane gets expensive and an almost daily chore.

[travelrider73]

Hmmm... Hadn't thought about the propane issue in the winter! Maybe if we're planning to be there a year, we'd be better off doing something entirely different. We want to own the 5er regardless, but we don't want to suffer, or spend a ridiculous amount on propane in the winter, in order to do it... Weren't the Teton's designed for full time use way up north -- oil field workers, etc. ???

[Randyretired]

Any RV needs to be light enough to run down the road. Wall and ceiling thickness is a compromise. November through February or March might be cheaper in an apartment and more comfortable. If an RV had R38+ ceilings and R19 walls it would be comfortable in these conditions but I have never seen an RV with that. I was born and raised in the Denver area. Temperatures swings are common. I have gone to bed with temps below 0 only to awake with temperatures above freezing and visa versa. We currently live in the western part of CO where it is a little milder with less temperature swings. Some friends tried to stay the winter in a travel trailer. Never again he said and they are divorced. The final straw was the black tank freezing despite straw stacked around the bottom and high density foam added underneath. Friends used to come back to CO every Christmas while full-timing. He had an elaborate setup for his DP for just this time. Our Teton has heated tanks, dual pane windows and 2 furnaces. It is rated to -20 but AZ or other southern climes are much more comfortable during winter and cheaper. Winter in a good RV in CO is doable but no thanks.

[RV_]

Travelrider,

The company that started out building extreme weather and "back road-able" frames is the one that Lou mentioned, Northwood who make the Arctic Fox etc. They are mid priced rigs new and can be custom ordered to use a gooseneck hitch from the factory, or used to a few years back. I would imagine they could build you a winterized unit. They are plainer than many fulltime rigs. You might want to look into their lines and give them a call.

[rpsinc]

Perhaps you can consider using a ceramic brick heater and find somewhere to install a trap door(a wall mountable plumbing access panel would work nicely) to allow some heat into the basement in those conditions where you will be subjected to freezing temps. I know that when we compared LP use with the factory installed furnace and the ceramic brick heater, it was 3:1 and the ceramic heater worked much better without the noisy fan running while sleeping. I know that DRV 5ers are built well for extreme temps, and we have one for sale if you are interested. Not too heavy either like the Tetons etc. ~12,500# dry. BTW- I really like Tetons and would have one except when we were in the market we couldnt find what we were looking for. Ended up with a Newmar KA.

[2gypsies]

We used a brick propane heater for 16 years. It provides wonderful silent heat.

[travelrider73]

We used a brick propane heater for 16 years. It provides wonderful silent heat.

 

How cold of an environment did you use it in, and how warm did it keep you?

 

Additional question (not related to the quote above):

So, is the real problem the lack of insulation in the RVs or is it really the poor heater designs?

 

The blue flame ventless propane heaters look promising!

[travelrider73]

The more I read, the more wintering in an RV sounds like a real pain... Maybe we should rent a house for this phase of our journey...

[Nolan]

The more I read, the more wintering in an RV sounds like a real pain... Maybe we should rent a house for this phase of our journey...

 

 

Good idea. I know a lot of people winter up north in their RV. But I never want to. I'd move into a stick and brinks.

[2gypsies]

 

How cold of an environment did you use it in, and how warm did it keep you?

 

Additional question (not related to the quote above):

So, is the real problem the lack of insulation in the RVs or is it really the poor heater designs?

 

The blue flame ventless propane heaters look promising!

 

We've used it in the 20's . We had an Empire - 3-brick MANUAL, not automatic. We'd turn it on in the morning with 3 bricks and within an hour had to turn it down to the 1 brick because it got too warm. I'd highly recommend the manual version so you could adjust it easily. We used an auxiliary propane tank so we could easily take only it and not have to drive the motorhome for refills. If spending a winter you'd be wise to contract with a propane company to have a bigger tank rented then they would come and refill for you - IF the RV park allowed this. As it was, the heater didn't use much propane at all. It's much more efficient than the RV furnace.

 

Your second question can be answered 'yes' to both.

[Randyretired]

If Denver only had low temps in the 20's I think one could stay in an better RV through the winter. However Denver's temps change quickly and while a lot days the temps may even be in the 60's there will be many days where the temps will never warm to the 20's. When temperatures fall below 0 the light insulation leaves inside temperatures very uneven. Around windows, doors and even the walls it is cold. Care must be taken to keep water lines from freezing and it can get cold enough that the small propane tanks can't keep up with the demand even though they are full. We often see temps in the 20's in our travels in a Teton and with a few precautions it is OK. Zero and below is much more serious in a RV. Some diehards will rough it a day or 2 but I never met anyone that has gone through a winter and enjoyed it in an RV. There are some RV's that people have stacked hay around the bottom, wrapped water lines with heat tape and I have even seen foam glued to the roof. People are living in these full time and seemed to make it in Denver. Often times the windows and vents are covered with insulation.