Jump to content

Gov. Greg Abbott signs electric vehicle fee into law


RV_

Recommended Posts

All the folks who claimed EV owners were not paying their fair share of road taxes will like this. But surprise, surprise, so do I. It is good for everybody in Texas. I pay my way. I would like it to be linked to the miles traveled if I lived there, but I do not. EZ-PZ without extra cost. Just have the folks doing the Texas vehicle inspections input the odometer miles and have the computer automatically calculate the correct fees at registration from miles traveled based on average mpg which today would be close to 25mpg, like our Forester.

$400 fee for road taxes for EVs to pay may be fair.
Oops! Forgot the link:
 
Edited by RV_

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 57
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I agree. I suspect insurance companies will become involved because most auto insurance companies have already introduced plans with miles driven tied to annual policy rates. They give you a module that plugs into your OBD port on your vehicle.  I'm assuming the companies have already figured out how to adapt that module to EV's too.

I'd like that option, DW has a 2017 Jeep GC limited with 12,xxx miles on the odometer. My 2013 Chevy Silverado has 87,xxx miles.

 

2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country.  John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is only fair that EV owners pay an associated cost toward road usage as do fossil fueled vehicles.  I Texas the majority of electricity is still generated from fossil fuel plants, coal or natural gas.  In any case, the EV still causes wear on the roads and must pay their fair share.

Ken

 

Amateur radio operator, 2023 Cougar 22MLS, 2022 F150 Lariat 4x4 Off Road, Sport trim <br />Travel with 1 miniature schnauzer, 1 standard schnauzer and one African Gray parrot

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay I agree that EVs should contribute to highway maintenance.  I am in favor of the per mile taxation with the removal of the gas tax.

The problem with the Texas law is in the math.  The fee for an EV is $200 a year after the registration, while the report stated that the average ICE vehicle pays $130 a year is gas taxes. A new definition of fairness.

I have a Mustang Mach-e EV and I live in Texas and the proposed fees are more like I was driving a dually and not a compact car.

 

Please click for Emails instead of PM
Mark & Dale
Joey - 2016 Bounder 33C Tige - 2006 40' Travel Supreme
Sparky III - 2021 Mustang Mach-e, off the the Road since 2019
Useful HDT Truck, Trailer, and Full-timing Info at
www.dmbruss.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, TXiceman said:

It is only fair that EV owners pay an associated cost toward road usage as do fossil fueled vehicles.

I'm always a bit amazed by the way so many who advocate for all electric vehicles then whine about paying an extra fee to support highways, immediately after boasting about not paying for gasoline.   🙄

7 minutes ago, Mark and Dale Bruss said:

The fee for an EV is $200 a year after the registration, while the report stated that the average ICE vehicle pays $130 a year is gas taxes.

The insurance estimated most cars get 15k miles per year and if they also got 20 mpg that would be $150 in TX gasoline tax at $0.20/gallon. They may be thinking of including the federal tax as well which the state highway department receives funding from which would then add an additional $0.183/gallon and would get pretty close to the $300 fee($287.25). Of course, all of this assumes that the authors of the bill understand basic math.

All of this also ignores the federal mandates that cars keep increasing the mpg. The first federal gasoline tax was in 1932 at 1Ȼ/gallon and was to pay for the deficits from WWI. In 1956 the tax was 3Ȼ/gallon and has slowly increased. The federal tax is currently suspended through Dec. 31, 2023. 

At some point there has to be a new source of funding for highways. Not only the increase in EVs on the road but average mpg was about 10 in 1950 and today is 25+ and many cars are like my little Jetta that gets 36 mpg in town and gets 42+ on the interstates. I believe that things like these are the reason we are seeing more and more toll roads and expect that trend to continue. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A 'per-mile' tax to the state would make the assumption that you drive 100% of those miles within the state borders.  I live 15 minutes from the border of the next state to the west of me and I spend a lot of time on the other side of that border.  How would they make that tax equitable...the state I live in, and the state where I spend 30% of my driving time are both going to want their share.

CA Dept of Fish & Wildlife (Ret)

US Navy (Ret)

2023 RAM 2500 Tradesman, 6.4L Hemi, 2x4, Reg cab, 8' bed, GVWR 10,000#, Cargo Cap 3913#, Tow Cap 15,540#

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

I agree. I suspect insurance companies will become involved because most auto insurance companies have already introduced plans with miles driven tied to annual policy rates. They give you a module that plugs into your OBD port on your vehicle.  I'm assuming the companies have already figured out how to adapt that module to EV's too.

I'd like that option, DW has a 2017 Jeep GC limited with 12,xxx miles on the odometer. My 2013 Chevy Silverado has 87,xxx miles.

Those plans have been around for decades without the module thingy.  I have had the lowest rated plan, at less than 7500 miles per year, for years because I put maybe 400 miles per month on my vehicle hopping back and forth to the local hardware store and driving  twice a month into town 30 miles away.  Usually on a beer run as this end of my county is dry.

Edited by Tulecreeper

CA Dept of Fish & Wildlife (Ret)

US Navy (Ret)

2023 RAM 2500 Tradesman, 6.4L Hemi, 2x4, Reg cab, 8' bed, GVWR 10,000#, Cargo Cap 3913#, Tow Cap 15,540#

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Kirk W said:

I'm always a bit amazed by the way so many who advocate for all electric vehicles then whine about paying an extra fee to support highways, immediately after boasting about not paying for gasoline.   🙄

 

Kirk,

I have written many times about the fact that electricity is much cheaper per mile. My Tesla uses not a drop of gas. That is not a boast that is fact. I'll add to that the fact that I never paid attention to my cost/kWh. My Tesla app shows 14 cents /kWh. It turns out it has averaged the cost because I usually plugged in at around 3 or 4pm a couple of times a month so I was paying mostly peak pricing from 3pm - 7pm of 18 cents. But off peak here, from 7 pm to 3PM  is 5 cents/kWh! So from now on my charging will cost 5 cents/kWh about 2/3rds less than what not paying attention to peak hours cost me. I programmed what peak and off peak hours are in my app and checked the box to only charge during off-peak hours here for the first time yesterday so I can plug in any time but my car will not start charging until 7:10 pm. It takes about 4 hours to charge so it will never spill over to peak hours.

qGFcNi9.jpgRemember this chart is for charging on the grid. Regardless of my cost for solar, once installed I will pay nothing for my EV charging at all, no or house hopefully. So the blue price per eGallon goes away, for me, and drops to zero.

The engineer called and they will be coming down in a week or three to finalize the survey for whole house and two EV charging.

We save enough in a month sometimes that pays 400 a year to pay road taxes.

From my post: "All the folks who claimed EV owners were not paying their fair share of road taxes will like this. But surprise, surprise, so do I. It is good for everybody in Texas."

From Mark's post: "

Okay I agree that EVs should contribute to highway maintenance.  I am in favor of the per mile taxation with the removal of the gas tax.

The problem with the Texas law is in the math.  The fee for an EV is $200 a year after the registration, while the report stated that the average ICE vehicle pays $130 a year is gas taxes. A new definition of fairness.

I have a Mustang Mach-e EV and I live in Texas and the proposed fees are more like I was driving a dually and not a compact car."

Kirk, I think we are the only EV owners in the thread.  Who are the "many whining about paying a fair share" here. We agree since we EV owners agree because we don't want the roads to be unusable.

I also saw Texas had/is considering doing away with the gas tax? If they do the same fees at registration by weight that would be great!

I'll post what it costs next month after I charge it at least a couple of times as my App will show cost per kWh and total cost fr the charge or month or year accurately now. I believe I was paying three times what I needed to by not limiting my charging to off-peak only.

11 hours ago, justRich said:

Tax should be by weight.

 

Rich excellent solution! The vehicle or the driver? (Totally kidding about the weight of the driver.)

The heavier they are the more wear on the roads.

I think they should do all vehicles by weight with a fee at registration. Texas is heading in the right direction in my opinion.

Good discussion.

Safe Travels! (On well maintained roads)

Edited by RV_

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Tulecreeper said:

Those plans have been around for decades without the module thingy.  I have had the lowest rated plan, at less than 7500 miles per year, for years because I put maybe 400 miles per month on my vehicle hopping back and forth to the local hardware store and driving  twice a month into town 30 miles away.  Usually on a beer run as this end of my county is dry.

The long-haul trucking industry has been dealing with the state fuel tax issue for decades.

 

2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country.  John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Tulecreeper said:

A 'per-mile' tax to the state would make the assumption that you drive 100% of those miles within the state borders.  I live 15 minutes from the border of the next state to the west of me and I spend a lot of time on the other side of that border.  How would they make that tax equitable...the state I live in, and the state where I spend 30% of my driving time are both going to want their share.

Do you equally buy gas is both states? 

The per-mile taxation would be based upon information from the computer in the car which would provide miles driven and where.  Each state would get their share of miles driven,

Please click for Emails instead of PM
Mark & Dale
Joey - 2016 Bounder 33C Tige - 2006 40' Travel Supreme
Sparky III - 2021 Mustang Mach-e, off the the Road since 2019
Useful HDT Truck, Trailer, and Full-timing Info at
www.dmbruss.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, RV_ said:

Kirk, I think we are the only EV owners in the thread.  Who are the "many whining about paying a fair share" here.

RV, as you know I'm not a big "Kirk" fan.  However, in this case I don't think he was referring to anyone here in this thread.  I took it as a general reference to those who do whine.  I've seen lot's of it on other forums and websites when dealing with this issue.

I may have misinterpreted Kirk's intent, but I didn't see it as directed toward you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Taxation never equals equitable . I suspect it has always been political, and now we have access to much of the behind the scenes process to prove it.

Never will be as there is an entire industry dependent on figuring out how to play the game  

An example is UI insurance in CA. It does not pay its own way via payroll as no politician wants to update the amount colored for fear of being seen as a tax raiser. So at the end of year, employers have to make up the difference in bulk. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Mark and Dale Bruss said:

Do you equally buy gas is both states? 

The per-mile taxation would be based upon information from the computer in the car which would provide miles driven and where.  Each state would get their share of miles driven,

Depends on who has the cheapest gas at the time I need to fill up.  I don't personally pay attention to which state I get gas in, I get it when I need it.

 

The vehicle will never be able to say "where" I've driven or it would need to store GPS information along with miles driven.  At that point you're talking about a federal tax and not a state tax issue.  Imagine taking a vacation for a month and driving 3000 miles during that 4-week time period, crossing 18 state lines and 2 international borders in the process.  Who gets the tax money?

Edited by Tulecreeper

CA Dept of Fish & Wildlife (Ret)

US Navy (Ret)

2023 RAM 2500 Tradesman, 6.4L Hemi, 2x4, Reg cab, 8' bed, GVWR 10,000#, Cargo Cap 3913#, Tow Cap 15,540#

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, durangodon said:

RV, as you know I'm not a big "Kirk" fan.  However, in this case I don't think he was referring to anyone here in this thread.  I took it as a general reference to those who do whine.  I've seen lot's of it on other forums and websites when dealing with this issue.

I may have misinterpreted Kirk's intent, but I didn't see it as directed toward you.

I wasn't taking it as me, nor Payroll. I was just wondering who he was referring to as whining in these forums. And why the pejorative terms "amazed" at whining?

But to be sure I was reading it right , I asked him, respectfully, without calling his post anything, just asked for him to identify, and he chose not to answer who he was referring to.

Don thanks for stepping in but I think Kirk is responsible for his choice of terminology in his posts. Why use contemptuous or patronizing terminology. Nor using that now. It takes no wordsmithing nor restraint on my part because I started this out supporting it as a good idea in the OP's first sentences above. 

What if I post that I am always amazed at the ICE owners who whine about the cost of EVs when they cost the same as the average new vehicle cost today?

Or that I am always amazed at the ICE owners who whine about the grid because they do not understand many of us we only charge a few times a month at most and then at night at home.

I don't use that tone or patronize I answer them as questions and provide the facts and links without contempt, demeaning terms or patronizing.

I answered that with a question which he did not answer. I did claim being "Amazed" as he was, or seeing the folks who want EVs to pay equivalent road tax as "whining" nor put a roll eyes at the end of my asking Kirk who he meant. I think most will see it as derisive terminology on his part. And that he chose not to answer my neutral actual question.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Payroll Person said:

Taxation never equals equitable . I suspect it has always been political, and now we have access to much of the behind the scenes process to prove it.

Never will be as there is an entire industry dependent on figuring out how to play the game  

An example is UI insurance in CA. It does not pay its own way via payroll as no politician wants to update the amount colored for fear of being seen as a tax raiser. So at the end of year, employers have to make up the difference in bulk. 

I can see that too PP, I am posting in "Other Topics" about Methane mitigation in Texas. The powers that be want no part and might try holding it up. Check it out.

Because Texas is a one of the largest fossil fuel producing states, the article is very interesting.

 

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Tulecreeper said:

Depends on who has the cheapest gas at the time I need to fill up.  I don't personally pay attention to which state I get gas in, I get it when I need it.

 

The vehicle will never be able to say "where" I've driven or it would need to store GPS information along with miles driven.  At that point you're talking about a federal tax and not a state tax issue.  Imagine taking a vacation for a month and driving 3000 miles during that 4-week time period, crossing 18 state lines and 2 international borders in the process.  Who gets the tax money?

Actually, the highway people have been working on per-mile taxation for well over 10 years.  Your car does keep information on where you have been and the work has been on how to easily read that information and forward it to clearing houses. Look at the toll road scanners clearing for multiple states each getting their share of the toll money.

Please click for Emails instead of PM
Mark & Dale
Joey - 2016 Bounder 33C Tige - 2006 40' Travel Supreme
Sparky III - 2021 Mustang Mach-e, off the the Road since 2019
Useful HDT Truck, Trailer, and Full-timing Info at
www.dmbruss.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/19/2023 at 6:38 AM, Mark and Dale Bruss said:

The problem with the Texas law is in the math.  The fee for an EV is $200 a year after the registration, while the report stated that the average ICE vehicle pays $130 a year is gas taxes. A new definition of fairness.

May the next step in Texas is raising the Gas Tax, a Dime. Would that be equalization. Better that putting a Sales Tax on Gasoline, as then you have on idea who is spending your money.

Clay

Clay & Marcie Too old to play in the snow

Diesel pusher and previously 2 FW and small Class C

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a reasonable case made that par vehicle, there should be an access fee. This is similar to what is coming for the big 3 CA elec suppliers (monthly fee to cover things like distribution and maintenance costs and a 30% lower kWh cost). We went this route a long time  ago for water (less per unit but added a monthly fee) since the water companies and common sense were asking for conservation.

But, the reality is those in charge have the same set of cost and desired or permitted profit, and as any factor changes their income (drought, ev, home Solar, etc.) they have to find a way to keep their wheels greased. And since those employed by the government or quasi government entities won’t work for free, and for many cases are unionized, and often work for the better end game (benefits) their costs never go down. (NOT knocking unions, my home has one union adult and one who has lesser feelings for them.)

Then we have the whole “our city had a higher minimum wage than my state” silliness, since it must mean enough voters can still be bought/fooled (like spam exists because enough fall for it to be profitable).

Edited by Payroll Person
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...