Overloaded RAM truck snapped in HALF...comments??

[Lou Schneider]

12 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Which leads to the question, how could he have steered the truck? As a kid my dad loaded 2 tons of sacked chicken feed on his 1938 International truck, only to discover that he could not steer the truck because the front wheels were barely touching the ground. I would expect that to happen well before both frame rails were to break or fold??? 

Apparently it was caused by a high center of gravity directly over the rear axle repeatedly flexing the frame up and down as the CofG shifted back and forth going over bumps, etc.  Metal fatigue set in at the cab/bed junction where neither body piece is stiffening the frame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9jADPmVj0

Edited January 8, 2023 by Lou Schneider

[Kirk W]

5 hours ago, Lou Schneider said:

Apparently it was caused by a high center of gravity directly over the rear axle repeatedly flexing the frame up and down

Have you ever heard of anything even similar to that? I'd still like to get a close look at the truck.

[justRich]

Mexico has speed bumps everywhere.  "Topes" as they are called.  
Plus, roads are terribly potholed.  He probably damage the truck by hitting topes and potholes.

Or maybe he's used the truck for his 5th wheel.  Does he have a 5-th wheel modification on the truck?

Plus, he's an insurance agent.  Does one suppose that he knows how to work the system?

Bye the way, rear axle ratings by the truck manufacturer are around 9,000 pounds.  
The axle manufacturer rates them at 11,000 pounds.
The truck manufacturer de-rates the axle so that does not exceed the tire load capacity.

Normally, the tire or wheel will fail when overloaded.
 

[JimK]

One issue is center of gravity.  Truck camper manufacturers provide exact information on COG for the base camper and also specs as to how the camper should be loaded on a truck.  The COG needs to be forward of the rear axle at least by several inches to a foot.  The video above belabors that point discussing how an incorrect COG stresses the frame.  This is in addition to the fact that the truck that broke was overloaded by at least 2000# and possibly overloaded by more than 3000#.  That is a huge amount for a truck rated to carry roughly 5000#.

Who is responsible for this failure?  Eagle Cap is clear and specific in their brochures and specs.  The owner is responsible for assuring that the truck is rate for the capacity and it is loaded with the correct COG.  It is unfortunate that no one corrected the owner's misconceptions.  Truck salesmen often do not know or care anything about the weight and loading of campers.  A camper dealer very likely installed the frame brackets for mounting the camper.  It is again unfortunate that they did not warn the owner or the owner did not listen.

[rickeieio]

36 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

Have you ever heard of anything even similar to that? I'd still like to get a close look at the truck.

Yes.  Many years ago, GM had a similar issue where trucks were being secured to the transports in such a manner that when they arrived at the dealer, the frame was bent in the manner of this example, though usually not so severely.

[Kirk W]

15 minutes ago, justRich said:

Plus, he's an insurance agent.  Does one suppose that he knows how to work the system?

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[Ray,IN]

On 1/7/2023 at 1:53 PM, Kirk W said:

Which leads to the question, how could he have steered the truck? As a kid my dad loaded 2 tons of sacked chicken feed on his 1938 International truck, only to discover that he could not steer the truck because the front wheels were barely touching the ground. I would expect that to happen well before both frame rails were to break or fold??? 

  I agree, had he bothered to weigh his loaded truck, the imbalance would have jumped off the weigh ticket at him.

 

In 1938 truck and auto frames were made/overbuilt, I think by forging, that way at the factory, today what few vehicles that still have frames, have one made by hydroforming sheet metal, and the factory says to never drill more holes in them or it will weaken the frame. I know my 2002 Chevy dually stated that in the owners manual. This IMO means new frames are designed as thin as possible and still meet the required specs.

 

[Kirk W]

If you mean that the frame rails are formed Sheetmetal similar to what is done in a unibody, I was unaware of that change. Just to be sure I went out and looked at my 2003 Dodge and this is a picture of the end of one frame rail and it isn't made of sheet metal. It is different than what they were back when that 1938 truck was built, but isn't everything different now? 

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Edited January 8, 2023 by Kirk W

[rickeieio]

Wellllll, you could say that the frame rails on our Kenworth are made from sheet metal too.  But, of a specified thickness and strength properties.  Most frames are made this way, the notable exception being box frames.

Of course the manufacturers make the frames as thin as possible to handle the expected loads.  More weight would mean less payload.

[bruce t]

Just keep in mind that in 2008 Fiat took over Chrysler and split Ram away from Dodge and formed RAM Trucks. They then gave RAM Trucks an ultimatum to build a better truck or Fiat would cease building trucks. ie regain market share. RAM Trucks completely redesigned the Ram. My understanding is that every nut and bolt was reassessed in the redesign. The 'new' RAMs were released with the 2013 models. (We owned a 2013). I only raise the point because you need to compare apples with apples.

FWIW it don't recall a chapter in the RAM manual labeled 'stupid things to do with your RAM Truck'.

 

[Ray,IN]

On 1/8/2023 at 3:52 PM, Kirk W said:

If you mean that the frame rails are formed Sheetmetal similar to what is done in a unibody, I was unaware of that change. Just to be sure I went out and looked at my 2003 Dodge and this is a picture of the end of one frame rail and it isn't made of sheet metal. It is different than what they were back when that 1938 truck was built, but isn't everything different now? 

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Your picture links says "bad request". I'd guess the corners of your frame are rounded? If so that is formed metal,  forged steel  C-frames (your dad's International) have a square outside corner and rounded inside radius.

Yes the frame rails ( over 3/16" can be considered sheet metal or plate depending on hardness) are hydro-formed soft sheet metal, then heat-treated(cheaper to make that way), Sheet metal goes by gauge,  and ranges from 7/.0=.5" to 44ga.= .0047". It requires a lot more tonnage to bend/form sheet steel vs sheet metal(different composition).

That's about all I remember, unless i get my Machinery's handbook out and relearn things, I quit toolmaking in 1990.

My online research has revealed the Ram 3500 frame comes in 2 parts that are welded together just aft of the front doors. So I doubt the front half requires replacement.

I see from browsing this website, $17K  to replace the frame is reasonable.

https://www.carid.com/2019-ram-3500-chassis-frames-body/ram-oe-frame-and-components-3115044174.html

Ram has a different maximum weight rating for hauling a TC, which is lower than the GVWR of the truck.  I suspect it has something to do with things like this happening. Had the center of balance been over the rear axle or forward, I doubt this would have occurred.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Ray,IN

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Ray,IN said:

Your picture links says "bad request"

The picture is hosted on Google and it must be your browser as some folks can see it,

This is from another site and is a 2009 Dodge. Mine is pretty similar.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Kirk W

[Ray,IN]

I see it thanks. Must be my computer settings, I tried both Google Chrome and MS Edge, got same error msg. on them too. That is a box frame made from bending sheet metal. That is how the frame on my 1996 Dodge CTD was made. There will be a continuous weld along one side of that frame unless it was made by the extrusion process at a steel mill. They are much more forgiving about welding and drilling, as they are not heat-treated after forming. They are also much stronger than a C-frame.

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Ray,IN

[Vladimir]

On 1/8/2023 at 3:45 PM, bruce t said:

Just keep in mind that in 2008 Fiat took over Chrysler and split Ram away from Dodge and formed RAM Trucks. They then gave RAM Trucks an ultimatum to build a better truck or Fiat would cease building trucks. ie regain market share. RAM Trucks completely redesigned the Ram. My understanding is that every nut and bolt was reassessed in the redesign. The 'new' RAMs were released with the 2013 models. (We owned a 2013). I only raise the point because you need to compare apples with apples.

FWIW it don't recall a chapter in the RAM manual labeled 'stupid things to do with your RAM Truck'.

 

When Fiat had the ownership transferred to it from the US government the CEO of FIAT said that the RAM truck division of Chrysler was the ONLY viable part of the company.

I  have no problem with the rest of your statement.

BTW....who in their right mind would buy a FIAT designed truck??

Full disclosure I own a 2010 one-ton FIAT diesel truck.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Vladimir

[rickeieio]

2 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

They are also much stronger than a C-frame.

Perhaps you meant to write "stiffer"?  "C" frames are designed to be able to twist, rather than break.  They are very forgiving of heavy loads and high torque.  Look under any heavy duty truck.  And by heavy duty, nothing built by GM, Ford, or Ram.

[franco-bolli]

watching this unfold (no pun intended) in discussion here, makes me hope that there is never anyone around with a camera if (when?) I do something unintended that results in catastrophic loss of equipment but no harm to occupants. 

 

[bruce t]

4 hours ago, Vladimir said:

When Fiat had the ownership transferred to it from the US government the CEO of FIAT said that the RAM truck division of Chrysler was the ONLY viable part of the company.

I  have no problem with the rest of your statement.

BTW....who in their right mind would buy a FIAT designed truck??

Full disclosure I own a 2010 one-ton FIAT diesel truck.

I didn't say is wasn't viable. I just said they were told to build a 'better' truck or they would reconsider their place in the market. Either way I'm a RAM fan and what Fiat did to the RAM brand was all positive.

[RV_]

19 hours ago, Kirk W said:

The picture is hosted on Google and it must be your browser as some folks can see it,

This is from another site and is a 2009 Dodge. Mine is pretty similar.

 

I can't see it either. I corrected your last one like this most could not see, but this link can't be resolved by my up to date version of Firefox. It won't work on Edge or the Brave browsers either. I also saw the second picture which was from another source.

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by RV_

[Dutch_12078]

On 1/8/2023 at 8:41 AM, Kirk W said:

Have you ever heard of anything even similar to that? I'd still like to get a close look at the truck.

Here's screen capture from a YouTube video explaining what happened.

[Dutch_12078]

Here's another look from the passenger side, this one from Reddit:

[Ray,IN]

On 1/9/2023 at 9:34 PM, rickeieio said:

Perhaps you meant to write "stiffer"?  "C" frames are designed to be able to twist, rather than break.  They are very forgiving of heavy loads and high torque.  Look under any heavy duty truck.  And by heavy duty, nothing built by GM, Ford, or Ram.

Yes, I've seen many power units with a twisted frame. In videos of power unit pulls and drag races some lift the LF wheel a foot off the track.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Ray,IN

[packnrat]

for the most part. from a non person, just  me. i know it as, 4X4 frames are meant to flex a lot more than a "street" frame.

but this new thing of a folding truck is interesting to me, might help with city parking spaces? short driveways?

[Ray,IN]

This makes me curious about any relationship between a broken frame and the recent thread about RAM reducing load ratings, retroactively.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Ray,IN
corrected hot link

[RV_]

Ray that link leads to a balloon festival article??

[TB673]

I know that this is an old thread, and I haven't seen this mentioned before, but is there a possibility that there was some structural damage to the frame when the Front Tie-Down Brackets were attached to the frame?

Tim