My medicare supplement

[GlennWest]

Signed up today for Mutual of Omaha Medicare N. 

[Jim & Alice]

3 hours ago, GlennWest said:

Signed up today for Mutual of Omaha Medicare N. 

I've had Mutual of Omaha Medicare G for years. Quite pleased with them.   

[k4rs]

I have Mutual of Omaha for my part D prescription plan.   I do not think I will be staying with them next year.  In 2022 there was a very modest premium increase over 2021.  I have been notified that in 2023 the premium will increase almost 300% 

So much for lower prescription prices due to the so called Inflation Reduction Act. 

Safe Travels...

[GlennWest]

My part D not with them. DW has same supplement as I have now. Been great for her. Actually same cost too. 

[Blues]

Something to be aware of with Mutual of Omaha Medicare supplements is that they have a history of "closing the book" on their companies.  "Closing the book" means the policies they have already issued continue as normal, but are not open to new enrollees. 

Then Mutual of Omaha starts offering policies under a different subsidiary name in that state, with attractive premiums because they're brand new and don't have a lot of old people on them, and the premiums can stay low as long as there are a lot of younger, healtheir people enrolled.  Then when that population starts aging and getting sicker, they can repeat the closing the book process.

It's a problem if you're in a state where you can't change supplements unless you pass medical underwriting (which is the vast majority of states).  If you can't pass medical underwriting, you're stuck with that plan, along with an aging pool of enrollees who also can't pass medical underwriting.  That's a prescription for higher claims, and along with higher claims come higher premiums that you will have no choice but to pay if you can't pass medical underwriting to switch to another plan, and don't want to switch to an Advantage plan (Advantage plans are guaranteed issue).

It's a completely legal practice, and there's nothing stopping any company from doing it.  And it's possible Mutual of Omaha won't do it in your state.  But they do have a track record that people should be aware of, to help make an informed decision.  Even if you're currently healthy and can pass any medical underwriting with flying colors, there's no guarantee that will be the case in a few years if/when MofO closes the book on the company you have your supplement with.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f38/medicare-moo-any-positive-experiences-115427-3.html#post2834537

[Kirk W]

We have our plan G supplement through Aetna, having changed to them from Mutual of Omaha 2 years ago for about 30% lower premiums and the same coverage. We have our part D drug coverage through Silver Script, which is also part of Aetna. Aetna is owned by CVS Health.

[TXiceman]

We have the same Aetna Senior Supplemental and Silver Script as Kirk.  For the past two years it has been hassle free.

 

Ken

[Jim & Alice]

Thanks for some of the comments here.   I've had Mutual of Omaha G for years, had two hip replacements and other assorted age-normal treatments... again, no problem w/full coverage.   But... obviously things could change.   Might check out other options during Medicare open enrollment season.   Thanks again, folks!

[Kirk W]

8 hours ago, Jim & Alice said:

 I've had Mutual of Omaha G for years, had two hip replacements and other assorted age-normal treatments... again, no problem w/full coverage. 

We didn't have any issues with Mutual of Omaha either, but the premiums would increase each year and when we reviewed the choices we found that we were paying $412/month for the two of us and by changing to Aetna we now pay $339/month. As far as I can determine the coverage is exactly the same with plan G from any insurance company. Each year we do a review of our Medigap and also our part D coverages durning the open enrolment period.

[2gypsies]

All companies give the same coverage with Supplements.  Only the prices are different.

[Kirk W]

2 hours ago, 2gypsies said:

Only the prices are different.

In my experience the coverages are the same for each level but the services and customer attention is not the same with all insurance companies. I consider that to be a very important difference. 

[Blues]

6 hours ago, Kirk W said:

We didn't have any issues with Mutual of Omaha either, but the premiums would increase each year and when we reviewed the choices we found that we were paying $412/month for the two of us and by changing to Aetna we now pay $339/month.

And that's the only issue with Mutual of Omaha.  All supplements in a particular letter group (in your case Plan G) provide the same coverage for Medicare-covered expenses.  And the supplement provider has no say in whether a particular procedure is covered--if Medicare covers it, Medicare pays its 80% and the supplement pays your 20% on your behalf.  Your supplement can't decline to pay; it's all up to Medicare to decide what is covered and what isn't, and the supplement just follows along.

So I'm not clear on what customer service would be important when it comes to the supplement provider.  The sign-up process might be a pain because they have a stupid website, and getting your premium payments set up might be a pain, but once that's done, there shouldn't be much occasion to need have customer service from them again, and certainly not like with "regular" health insurance, where your beef about whether a procedure is covered is with that insurance company, and it's their customer service people you'll be dealing with.  With Medicare, you'll be dealing with Medicare over what gets covered, and your supplement isn't involved at all.

You're in Texas, so evidently you passed medical underwriting, since Aetna issued you a policy.  But not everyone can pass medical underwriting, and those who can't are stuck with whatever supplement they currently have until their health improves enough that they can pass medical underwriting (could be problematic, especially because you're aging).  It's no surprise that any supplement premium can rise, but when a company closes the book, it's likely the premium will rise quickly after that because of the demographics of the pool of people in that plan, compared to plans that are accepting new (and presumably younger, healthier) enrollees. 

That's the risk of getting a supplement from a company with a known practice of closing the book.  The premium rise might happen, and it might not.  And you might be able to pass medical underwriting if it does happen, but you might not. 

Most people don't expect that their choice of a supplement could be irrevocable, but it can be if they have conditions that will make supplement providers decline to issue a policy to them.   

 

6 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Each year we do a review of our Medigap and also our part D coverages durning the open enrolment period.

The term "open enrollment" for Medicare is a misnomer when it comes to supplements (Medigap).  There's a yearly Annual Election Period, often referred to as Medicare Open Enrollment, during which people can change their Part D (prescription) plan, and we're currently in it.  This is when you can choose to change your Part D provider:  you can't just choose to change your Part D plan any other time.

Also during our current open enrollment period, you can choose to change from a Medicare Advantage plan to traditional Medicare.

But when it comes to supplements (Medigap), the open enrollment period we're currently in doesn't offer anything unique to people who already have a supplement and want to change to another one, or who have been on traditional Medicare for a while and want to buy their first supplement; anyone can change supplements any time of the year.

And regardless of whether it's done in June or during the "open enrollment" period we're currently in, they are subject to medical underwriting by the company they want to switch to or buy their first supplement from. 

The only "open enrollment" (or "guaranteed issue") period for supplements occurs when you first become eligible for Medicare and sign up for Part B, during which time you have guaranteed-issue rights to any supplement you want, regardless of your health status.  But that's a one-time deal.  After that period passes, you can be subjected to medical underwriting any time you try to switch to a new supplement, unless you're in one of the few states that have a provision for people having guaranteed-issue rights at times other than their initial enrollment period. 

In other words, if in June you're poking around websites for supplements and find out you can get your Plan G from another company for less than what you're currently paying, you can apply to the new company right then.  You'll undergo the same medical underwriting you'd undergo in the "open enrollment" period that we're in now. 

That said, the current "open enrollment" period might be a convenient time to look into changing supplements, especially if you're considering changing Part D based on the drugs you're taking.  But it's not the only time you can do it.  Changing supplements during our current open enrollment period will operate exactly the same way as it would at any other time during the year.

Not helping one bit is that even on the Medicare site, the initial enrollment period during which a person has guaranteed-issue rights to a supplement is called "open enrollment," although I noticed it usually says "your open enrollment period" which if you read carefully enough and give weight to the "your," you can conclude it indicates that they're not talking about an open enrollment period that applies to everyone, like the one we're in now. 

Plus, people have become familiar with the annual "open enrollment" for Obamacare, during which time you can pick any ACA plan you want and they have to give it to you regardless of your health.  But that is not the case with supplements (Medigap) during Medicare's annual open enrollment period.

[Kirk W]

15 minutes ago, Blues said:

So I'm not clear on what customer service would be important when it comes to the supplement provider

Speed of processing claims, response to policy holder questions, user friendly websites, EOB reports, handling of claims from forign travel, etc.

EDIT: Both plan N and plan G policies cover medical costs for forign travel.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Kirk W
Add information.

[2gypsies]

6 hours ago, Kirk W said:

In my experience the coverages are the same for each level but the services and customer attention is not the same with all insurance companies. I consider that to be a very important difference. 

We never have occasion to contact our plan.  Not sure why you have to do so so often.  The cost of the plan is more important to us.

[Blues]

On 10/15/2022 at 10:42 PM, 2gypsies said:

We never have occasion to contact our plan.  Not sure why you have to do so so often.  The cost of the plan is more important to us.

I forgot about the foreign travel coverage that some supplements have.  So that is a case where the supplement would have some say about what gets covered, but you won't know how they are to deal with on that until it happens.

With supplements, it's one of the rare times in the insurance world where customer service doesn't matter, and all coverages are the same.  That sounds great, except for the medical underwriting if you want to switch plans.  So even in this rare case of apparent obviousness, you still can't just pick the cheapest because it might be a teaser rate from a company that intends to close the book in a few years, and if your health declines you might not be able to switch.

But if you're in a state where you can switch plans without underwriting, it's fabulous.  Just pick the cheapest and if another one comes along that's cheaper, pick it.  But I saw the data on one non-underwriting state where the premium for Plan G ranged from like $100 to $400 a month, and have to wonder why in the world someone would be on the $400 plan when they can get exactly the same thing for $100.  I like to think the $400 plan has nobody enrolled in it, but I bet it does.

[docj]

44 minutes ago, Blues said:

With supplements, it's one of the rare times in the insurance world where customer service doesn't matter, and all coverages are the same.  That sounds great, except for the medical underwriting if you want to switch plans.  So even in this rare case of apparent obviousness, you still can't just pick the cheapest because it might be a teaser rate from a company that intends to close the book in a few years, and if your health declines you might not be able to switch.

We're SD residents and switched our Plan F supplements in the 2021 open season in order to realize a significant savings.  I had been prepared to have to respond to lots of medical questions, but the ones that we were asked were all about far more serious medical conditions than we currently face.  I guess that's good news for us.   We were able to change without any issues.

[Randyretired]

On 10/15/2022 at 9:42 PM, 2gypsies said:

We never have occasion to contact our plan.  Not sure why you have to do so so often.  The cost of the plan is more important to us.

We have a Medicare Advantage  plan that covers most everything but every so often we get a bill. Unfortunately we use it a lot.  Always it is a billing  mistake.  One call to UHC and they will follow up and get the problem rectified.  We can go in network or out but the local hospitals are in network.  Still one had technical problems billing and just sent the bill to me, demanding payment.  Nice to have that service.

[spindrift]

I'm about to turn 64 and a half.  What's the best way to start this process?  I understand it's complicated as I've been getting emails every day from "consultants" more than willing to take my money.

[docj]

39 minutes ago, spindrift said:

I'm about to turn 64 and a half.  What's the best way to start this process?  I understand it's complicated as I've been getting emails every day from "consultants" more than willing to take my money.

The basic choice you have to make is do you want to deal with managed care insurance or not.  The answer to that defines whether you choose Medicare Advantage or "regular" Medicare with supplements.  I think that currently about half of Medicare beneficiaries choose each.  

Once you've decided that major choice, you can then go through the different plans to decide which one(s) work best for you.  My wife and I have Supplement F plans (currently replaced by Plan G).  For a variety of reasons, we're not fans of managed care, but lots of others swear by it.

[Blues]

10 hours ago, docj said:

We're SD residents and switched our Plan F supplements in the 2021 open season in order to realize a significant savings. 

Just a reminder--there is no "open season" for changing supplements.  You can change supplements any time you want. 

Also, I've been thinking about Plan F, and since it's not open to younger enrollees, I wonder if the aging population with Plan F policies might cause premiums to rise faster, like what happens with plans where the company closes the book and stops accepting new enrollees.

I have a friend who's on Plan F.  The only advantage Plan F has over Plan G is that it covers the $170.10 Part B deductible.  It's easy to compare premiums between Plan F and Plan G, and if F's premium is more than $170/year more than G's premium, G is the better deal.  And that's the case with my friend--G would be a better deal because with F, he's paying more than $170/year to avoid paying a $170 deductible.  But he can't pass medical underwriting, so he's stuck with his Plan F, and possibly even greater premium increases due to more claims from its older population.

5 hours ago, Randyretired said:

We have a Medicare Advantage  plan that covers most everything but every so often we get a bill. Unfortunately we use it a lot.  Always it is a billing  mistake. 

But that's Medicare Advantage.  With traditional Medicare and a supplement, the supplement company doesn't do anything on its own (except foreign travel coverage).  Medicare and Medicare alone determines whether a procedure is covered.  If it is, Medicare pays 80% and the supplement is automatically on the hook for the beneficiary's 20% share.  If Medicare determines a procedure isn't covered, Medicare doesn't pay and the supplement doesn't pay.

That's why there should be very little occasion to deal with one's supplement company. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Blues

[Randyretired]

1 hour ago, Blues said:

Just a reminder--there is no "open season" for changing supplements.  You can change supplements any time you want. 

Also, I've been thinking about Plan F, and since it's not open to younger enrollees, I wonder if the aging population with Plan F policies might cause premiums to rise faster, like what happens with plans where the company closes the book and stops accepting new enrollees.

I have a friend who's on Plan F.  The only advantage Plan F has over Plan G is that it covers the $170.10 Part B deductible.  It's easy to compare premiums between Plan F and Plan G, and if F's premium is more than $170/year more than G's premium, G is the better deal.  And that's the case with my friend--G would be a better deal because with F, he's paying more than $170/year to avoid paying a $170 deductible.  But he can't pass medical underwriting, so he's stuck with his Plan F, and possibly even greater premium increases due to more claims from its older population.

But that's Medicare Advantage.  With traditional Medicare and a supplement, the supplement company doesn't do anything on its own (except foreign travel coverage).  Medicare and Medicare alone determines whether a procedure is covered.  If it is, Medicare pays 80% and the supplement is automatically on the hook for the beneficiary's 20% share.  If Medicare determines a procedure isn't covered, Medicare doesn't pay and the supplement doesn't pay.

That's why there should be very little occasion to deal with one's supplement company. 

Our Medicare Advantage pays Medicare rates the same as Medicare.  It is a PPO that pays anywhere Medicare is accepted.  Just the same as Medicare. In nearly every case if it is Medicare approved it pays 100%. However, there have been billing errors.  When we had Medicare and a supplement we also encountered billing errors.

[Kirk W]

10 hours ago, docj said:

The basic choice you have to make is do you want to deal with managed care insurance or not.  The answer to that defines whether you choose Medicare Advantage or "regular" Medicare with supplements.

I think that is probably the most difficult part of the process.  This comes from Forbes Health

Quote

MEDICARE ADVANTAGE VS. MEDICARE SUPPLEMENT: WHICH IS RIGHT FOR YOU?
Medicare Advantage	Medicare Supplement
$0 deductible for many plans, no copay for a primary doctor, low copays for specialists Restricted choice of providers, hospitals and suppliers One-stop-shop coverage, but must also be enrolled in Medicare Part A and Part B Most policies include Part D prescription drug coverage, as well as some vision, hearing, dental and fitness benefits Some plans offer out-of-network provider coverage	Predictable monthly payments (but can be expensive) Plans K and L have annual out-of-pocket limits Small percentage of plans offer nontraditional benefits like hearing, dental and vision International travel coverage Must also be enrolled in Medicare Part A and Part B Policies don’t cover prescription drugs, so must enroll in Part D separately Only covers one person—spouses must buy separate coverage

Medigap purchasing details: enrollment periods, guaranteed issue, and more

Edited October 18, 2022 by Kirk W

[GlennWest]

Next year I may consider and advantage plan. They are less money. Now I still working  and travel to work with camper so a HMO not that safe for me. Now when we stop mostly traveling and stay in Huntsville. Our HMO would be greater Houston area. Some great doctors and clinics here. Something I will have to consider

[Randyretired]

Not all Medicare Advantage plans are the same.  While Medicare Advantage plans are often cheaper than supplements some are bare bones and some are quite good.  As I stated before our plan provided by my DW's former employer at no cost to us is virtually the same as Medicare with a top  supplement. It is good anywhere Medicare is accepted and has saved us a lot.  We are not limited to certain docs and hospitals and it doesn't restrict medical care while traveling.  In fact they said we can get care at facilities that do not accept Medicare but they will only pay Medicare rates.  Leaving the remainder for us.

[Jaydrvr]

There's this common misconception that Medicare Advantage is all HMO, but that's not an accurate representation of what's available. We've had Medicare Advantage PPO since we first turned 65 and have used it to great success in multiple states nationwide. I'm still trying to determine the attraction to supplements and their steep premiums, plus the requirement to medically qualify. I know there must be some value there, since so many prefer that route. Jay