Just looked at the thermometer outside

[DavidCD]

We're sitting in an RV park just south of College Station, Tx with non-insulated tanks!   The weather guys are saying it's going to get down to 3-5 F tomorrow night - oh man, this may not be pretty.

In the past we managed the tanks in cold weather by emptying them out the day before the cold was going to arrive and then putting a gallon of RV antifreeze in each tank so that the antifreeze would be pooled against the tanks' drain valves.    I suppose there was some mixing with the tank contents as they were being used but, we haven't had a tank freeze problem - yet.

The supply hose is covered with foam pipe insulation tubes but this was only good for temps down to about 20 F - below that I had to get up in the middle of the night and run the water (usually the commode valve) long enough to break up any ice that was starting to form.    But, we haven't been in this low of a temperature before - this might need several middle of the night water runs.

'Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[Ray,IN]

37 minutes ago, DavidCD said:

We're sitting in an RV park just south of College Station, Tx with non-insulated tanks!   The weather guys are saying it's going to get down to 3-5 F tomorrow night - oh man, this may not be pretty.

In the past we managed the tanks in cold weather by emptying them out the day before the cold was going to arrive and then putting a gallon of RV antifreeze in each tank so that the antifreeze would be pooled against the tanks' drain valves.    I suppose there was some mixing with the tank contents as they were being used but, we haven't had a tank freeze problem - yet.

The supply hose is covered with foam pipe insulation tubes but this was only good for temps down to about 20 F - below that I had to get up in the middle of the night and run the water (usually the commode valve) long enough to break up any ice that was starting to form.    But, we haven't been in this low of a temperature before - this might need several middle of the night water runs.

'Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

Fill the fresh water tank, drain and store hose. Your trailer was built to live in self-contained, do so. Open any cabinet doors and drawers that may allow heated air to get to water lines. Your waste tank management is good, the RV anti-freeze will remain in next to the drain valve unless the trailer moves enough to mix the anti-freeze with any added water. Use as little water as possible overnight then add extra water the next day you dump to restore balance to the tank contents.

[Ray,IN]

5 hours ago, Wrknrvr said:

 Went to fill the fresh water tank.    Yep darn hydrant is frozen. Apparently it did not drain down. Or it is frozen to supply line.

  Put insulated box back over, installed a hair dryer. Watch nascar race. Dream of a nice shower.

 

 And I thought the cold weather was over.

 

Vern in a T-shirt 

Frost-proof hydrants will not drain back when a hose is attached, air must be allowed in to replace the water in the hydrant pipe.

[Wrknrvr]

  Finally got tank filled. And disconnected the hoses again. Bath time tonight.

 

  I really dislike the cold also.  But Covid19 said stay north. Rethinking next winters adventures.

 

   Vern in a T-shirt 

 

[DavidCD]

Well ...    10 F temp overnight and gale force wind overpowered my water hose insulation and we're frozen solid;  we're 'melting snow on the stove for flush water this morning.

Does anyone know how well (or badly) a Suburban hot water heater can withstand freezing weather?  The weather guys are saying to expect a low temp of 2 F tonight.    I'm guessing that I should drain the water heater so it won't get damaged - but I'd like to let it ride if I don't have to get out there and pull the anode/drain plug.

 

[Kirk W]

35 minutes ago, DavidCD said:

Does anyone know how well (or badly) a Suburban hot water heater can withstand freezing weather? 

If it is full and turned on, it should do fine but if not operating I would drain it. Do you not have any water in your potable water tank to use?  Just how long it would take to freeze will depend a lot on where it is located and if the wind is hitting the outside of it but I would not wait to drain it if you do not have it heating. 

[DavidCD]

24 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

If it is full and turned on, it should do fine but if not operating I would drain it. Do you not have any water in your potable water tank to use?  Just how long it would take to freeze will depend a lot on where it is located and if the wind is hitting the outside of it but I would not wait to drain it if you do not have it heating. 

Hi Kirk -

Our potable water tank is not insulated either - it's just hanging under the trailer, right next to the sanitation tanks - so, I've drained it and put some insulation over the drain valve.   This has been my usual routine when the temps get below freezing and, up until now, things have worked out OK - but, we've not been in temps this low.  None of the forecasters got these single digit temps right.  Last week, we were hearing that the College Station area would get down to 19 F but then, each day, they'd chop off a degree or two - now, there saying 2 F for tonight.

The water heater has been operating - we don't have the heat turned on all the time, just when we need hot water, we'll turn on the heater burner a few minutes before we use it;  it's only a 6 gallon tank so it gets hot pretty quickly.  I was wondering if there was any "official guidance" from the manufacturer about keeping the heat on a full tank even if the water supply is off.   

I think you are right - 'probably should dump the heater tank water.  I'm just not looking forward to freezing fingers and banged up knuckles.

Thanx for your feedback.

 

[Kirk W]

We are in Mesquite, currently at 7F and not expected to go above freezing until Thursday or Friday. I hadn't realized your potable water was under the trailer. Ours has both waste tanks that way but the fresh water tank is under our bed. But it is also winterized as we are at home base.

[noteven]

The science is settled on climate and resulting weather 50 years from now, experts say. 

 

It is tomorrow to Saturday that poses the main challenge.

[Darryl&Rita]

Just crawled out from under my uncle's house trailer @ -2F. Heat tapes need to be checked more often than never. Plumbing pipes need to run in a continuous slope, no snow bellies. That's my story.

[GlennWest]

Electric off here. Running 12v off of my leaf battery pack. It 21k so see how long it lasts. Maybe electric come back on sometime today. 14 degrees and good 10inches snow on top of sleet. Smart car won't go in this. Wonder about the truck. Need to get some propane before it runs out.

[DavidCD]

3 hours ago, Kirk W said:

We are in Mesquite, currently at 7F and not expected to go above freezing until Thursday or Friday. I hadn't realized your potable water was under the trailer. Ours has both waste tanks that way but the fresh water tank is under our bed. But it is also winterized as we are at home base.

OK - I've drained the water heater and will wait out the cold weather for the rest of the week.  It looks like we won't see an above freezing day until this weekend.   In the mean time my water  supply hose and, I guess, the trailer's plumbing is in the deep freeze.  

I did a little looking around under the sinks - the plumbing looks like mostly PEX piping.   There are various web sites that say PEX piping can handle freezing because it can expand with the expansion of frozen water.  However, there are comments saying the weak point in the PEX installations are cheap plastic fittings that don't expand like the PEX material.

Do you have any experience with PEX plumbing?   Does it recover OK after a freeze?

 

[Wrknrvr]

  I would leave the heat on. Pex can probably handle freezing. But any brass, copper, plastic stuff may not survive.

 

  We are about 24 degrees, with 3” of snow and more on the way. It is now so warm I need to not wear so much clothing as when I am out shoveling as my Tshirt wants to get wet from sweating. Then I need to come in and change T-shirt . Then go back out again 

 

Stay Safe,    Vern

[GlennWest]

well we just got electricity. 

[bigjim]

6 hours ago, DavidCD said:

Do you have any experience with PEX plumbing?   Does it recover OK after a freeze?

Pex has made me very happy but I still don't like to test it. Mine has recovered very well so far.

[Wrknrvr]

Woke up to this today. Now to go shovel the snow for exercise.

 

[DavidCD]

OK - putting the anti-freeze in the sanitation tanks to try to keep the drain valves from freezing didn't pan out ...  both, grey & black water tank valves are frozen - I suppose the tank contents are in the same condition.

The tanks are both 42 gallon and non-insulated, situated in the open air under the trailer.   The most optimistic prediction for temperatures here is that we won't start having 24 hr days above freezing until Saturday and then, it will be in the 50s - 60s.

Does anyone know how long it might take for these tanks to thaw?   Any tips on speeding up the process?

 

[Kirk W]

48 minutes ago, DavidCD said:

Does anyone know how long it might take for these tanks to thaw?   Any tips on speeding up the process?

Thaw time is dependent on many different things. The larger the tank the slower it will thaw. The amount of the tank that is exposed to warmth will also play a significant role. If you can use a blower to push warm air up around the tank that would speed things up.

[DavidCD]

18 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

Thaw time is dependent on many different things. The larger the tank the slower it will thaw. The amount of the tank that is exposed to warmth will also play a significant role. If you can use a blower to push warm air up around the tank that would speed things up.

Yeah ...   I just don't have any idea.   I've seen blocks of ice sit in a yard for a couple of days before they completely melted;  this stuff is sitting in a tank with no air circulation.   The plastic handle on the 1 1/2 inch grey water valve broke off when I tried to open the valve - I've ordered a replacement with a metal handle.  Obviously, I need the tank empty in order to swap out the valve - I'm just trying to estimate what day it might be when I can work on the valve.

This is all so much fun!

 

[bigjim]

I fixed my handle years ago using flat piece of Aluminum of sufficient thickness to not bend when I pulled the valve open. It is a little longer than the standard one so easier to grab. Drilled a hole just a little bigger than the threads and put a nut on each side of the aluminum. I think the one on the outside was a lock nut. It is still there and working.

In a somewhat desperate situation I turned off the water to TT and pump off I propped the toilet valve open in such a way that what I used could not drop into the tank and used a fan or heater on very low and not too close and blew it into the black tank, also tried to get sunlight or auxiliry heat to the outside valves and tanks. I used the reflective cover for the vehicle dash to reflect sun heat to that area.   I had to do that 2 times. Once for a freeze up and once to dry a tank complete to do a repair using epoxy.  My tanks are exposed and I usually try to dump about an hour after the high temp. for the day when I do. In winter I normally dump at about 1/2 full. If it is not quite there yet I will dump some water in to get to about 1/2 full. I have dumped warm water in to help thaw. 

IMO this time of year with these circumstance is a good time to put your paper in the trash vs in the black tank.  You may or may not have to replace the valve.  On my grey tank line down to the valve got a small split due to freezing. I used a small piece of rubber gasket and 2 hose clamps to fix it temporarily about 12 years ago. So it might not last forever.  I could have used a piece of innertube with the clamps. I am pretty sure I could fix it with some epoxy or the like but I want to see how long the clamps and gasket lastl

Edited February 18, 2021 by bigjim

[Wrknrvr]

 I think you may need to enclose the bottom of your rv. Then supply heat into that area.  And that heat has to be very controlled.

 

  I will pm for a phone number.

 

  Vern in a T-shirt 

[Ray,IN]

12 hours ago, DavidCD said:

OK - putting the anti-freeze in the sanitation tanks to try to keep the drain valves from freezing didn't pan out ...  both, grey & black water tank valves are frozen - I suppose the tank contents are in the same condition.

The tanks are both 42 gallon and non-insulated, situated in the open air under the trailer.   The most optimistic prediction for temperatures here is that we won't start having 24 hr days above freezing until Saturday and then, it will be in the 50s - 60s.

Does anyone know how long it might take for these tanks to thaw?   Any tips on speeding up the process?

 

Call around to find a store selling Purple Heat.

[Al F]

10 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

Call around to find a store selling Purple Heat.

A good idea.  Maybe just picking up 4 or 5 containers of table salt and pouring it into the tank would help.  Or picking up some water softener salt and pouring it into the tank would work.

[Wrknrvr]

  I did pm David. So far I did not get a response.

some questions to be answered 

1  first do you have heat in the rv

2 if so there is something you may be able to do to help.

3 can you crawl under the rv. If so then you can possibly find how your heat is distributed to the rv.

4 if you can find that then get back to me

 

 

just thinking,    Vern

 

[Ray,IN]

13 hours ago, Al F said:

A good idea.  Maybe just picking up 4 or 5 containers of table salt and pouring it into the tank would help.  Or picking up some water softener salt and pouring it into the tank would work.

Table salt dissolved in a gallon of water might help, but the quantity is an unknown. I've tried using softener salt pellets on my driveway, it doesn't work very well, dissolves too slow. I've never tried the crystal type.