Almost retired couple looking for advise on a travel trailer until we do go full time in a couple of years

[Arnwrkr]

We are a couple in our sixties, he is 67, she is a young 60.  We plan on going full time in 2023.  We are looking to start our RVing life with a travel trailer for now.  We want one that we can pull with our 2016 F-150.  It has the tow package and a 3.5L engine.  We have been looking at used 24ft to 26ft rigs with one slide and I'm thinking the F-150 should work well for that.  What brands do you like/dislike?  We're expecting to use it for weekend camping to get familiar with systems and do's and don'ts.  We rented a 25ft MiniWini and went to the RV Boot camp a couple years ago, so we have had some instruction.  Several years ago I lived on a houseboat on San Francisco Bay for 3 years and my girlfriend (now wife) joined me for the last year, so we are familiar with close quarters living.  We will probably get a Class A or C to full time with, but the cost is prohibitive right now.  Any suggestions/ideas/criticisms about these plans would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance. 

[Kirk W]

Welcome to the Escapee forums! There is far more to this than just knowing what truck you have as you need to look at the specific details for that truck, as in wheelbase, engine, transmission, etc. There are many on these forums who are very knowledgeable on the subject here so help is available. 

When it comes to trailers, are you thinking of a fifth wheel or a travel trailer? The most important thing to consider with that choice is the gross weight as you will need to tow it when loaded and many give you dry weight, so be careful. Keep in mind that when it comes to RV manufacturers, no company is so good that they have no unhappy customers and none is so bad that they have no happy customers. If you really want to learn about them, I think that the best source would be to join the RV Consumer Group, which helped me a great deal more than 20 years ago when we were shopping for an RV to live fulltime in.  Are you shopping a used RV? If you only plan to keep it for a few years that would probably be your best plan as you can save a lot if you choose your purchase carefully. To give a brand which you should not buy is pretty sure to offend those who own it, but the RV Consumer Group rates RVs based on different models and are not brand oriented. The fact is that most RV manufacturers build a range of quality/price RVs and there are markets for each. In general, better quality RVs also weigh more and the ultra-lite models even from the best manufacturers will not hold up as well to constant use as do the heavier models. For your planned use, I probably would not spend what is needed to get an RV capable of everyday living but would stick with one designed more for vacation use. We  bought one of the higher price units when we lived in it and were well served for nearly 12 years on the road and 14 owning it. We now own a lower budget travel trailer from the ultra-lite group which probably would not do for fulltime but which has served us for summer trips of 1 to 5 months, quite well. We manage that by being very weather cautious and not using it in extremely hot or cold temperatures as they are not well insulated. 

[fpmtngal]

One issue you can have with an F150 is payload.  What does the yellow sticker on the driver’s door say is your truck’s payload?  Payload is varies by each vehicle - it depends on trim level, features, wheelbase and so on.

I used to have a 2018 Lariat F150, max tow package, crew cab/short bed and I think it had a payload around 1700 lbs.  I don’t remember exactly now as I traded it in this spring - when I went full-time I added enough extra stuff (though I tried very hard not to) so that I went over both the truck and the trailer’s respective GVWR (my trailer is small and while it has a respectable amount of payload for a trailer in its class, it’s still a small trailer).  If you get a trailer that has a GVWR of 7,000 lbs, your tongue weight should be in the 800-1000 lbs range, and that’s payload for the truck.  Add that to the weight of you and your wife (any dogs?), and whatever else you might want to bring (bicycles, generator, propane fire pit, grill, firewood, portable solar panel, etc.) and you could run out of payload if you don’t pay attention.

Anyway, that’s something to think about when you are looking for a trailer.  Choosing the right one depends on a lot of other things, such as the conditions you will be camping in etc.

I’m not saying that you can’t find a good trailer to tow behind your F150 (I would still be towing with mine if I didn’t have too much stuff), just that you have to think about all the weight ratings and be realistic.

Edited January 15, 2021 by fpmtngal

[Arnwrkr]

Thanks for all the help.  This is just the kind of info I was looking for.  I will be a much better shopper now.  I looked at the RV Consumer Group and will be joining that this weekend.  The F150 is actually my wife's truck and the payload is 1661 lbs.  Going out this weekend to shop around.  We are hoping to have something to go camping in March.  Thanks again for the information that can't be bought.

[sandsys]

56 minutes ago, Arnwrkr said:

the payload is 1661 lbs

Given that you might want to look at the fiberglass egg trailers like Scamp and Casita. I looked at Jayco to see if it would work as it's a popular brand but the smallest one recommended 2000 pound capability. One advantage of the eggs is they tend to hold their value better than most trailers so wanting to upgrade in a couple years means taking less of a hit.

Linda Sand

[NDBirdman]

They make lite TTs you could pull but by the time you load it up it might put you way over.  Think minimalist living, nuttin wrong with it.  All I would add about your 150 (I've had several in my lifetime) would be it's stopping a heavy camper in a timely/safe manner.  Ya don't want one pushing you through an intersection, etc. or pushing you down a steep downgrade with no-where to go.  My opinion, if your not going full time for a couple years, get a smaller/less expensive TT for now and go all out on a newer/heavier truck.  Overkill on truck is always best.  Depending on what you think you might want in a few years, a single rear wheel 1 ton or a 1 ton dually.  Too much truck is always better than not enough truck.  If you were ND, we could have talked about my truck and 5th wheel camper..... we are leaning towards a Class A motorhome when we start back up.

[fpmtngal]

The eggshell trailers would be a good choice, but they aren’t as big as what you are thinking about.  Lance trailers might be something to look at, but the larger trailers are going to be heavier than you might be able to manage.  There are a a couple of other trailers that would work with your truck, but it depends on whether you.  A slide will really open up a trailer’s living space, so it’s sometimes possible to be perfectly comfortable in a shorter trailer, especially if your camping is weekends with an occasional week-long trip.  But that’s really a personal choice - I can be very comfortable in a small trailer while the next person would feel completely claustrophobic.

 

[Kirk W]

9 hours ago, Arnwrkr said:

Going out this weekend to shop around.  We are hoping to have something to go camping in March. 

Keep us posted on how things go this weekend. I think that you are wise to plan some vacation and weekend RV experience before you buy an RV for fulltime living. Another thing that you may want to consider is attending an Escapade and/or RV Boot Camp before you begin your fulltime experience. There are also a lot of coursed available from the Online University that may be helpful.

Do not hesitate to come back and join in with conversations or ask questions as we are happy to help in any way that we are able. Stay safe out there and come back soon!

Edited January 15, 2021 by Kirk W

[Arnwrkr]

thanks again for all the responses.  We did attend the RV Bootcamp a couple years ago, which is why I knew this would be the place to go for good advice.  The wife is not too hot on the eggshell type, too cramped for her.  Been looking at the Gulfstream Vintage Cruiser 23RSS lately.  My wife always wants a "pop of color" in everything and these rigs definitely fit the bill.  Only 420 hitch weight and around 6000 GVWR if we load it up.  It seems like it should work with our existing F150.  What do you think?  

[Pat & Pete]

47 minutes ago, Arnwrkr said:

thanks again for all the responses.  We did attend the RV Bootcamp a couple years ago, which is why I knew this would be the place to go for good advice.  The wife is not too hot on the eggshell type, too cramped for her.  Been looking at the Gulfstream Vintage Cruiser 23RSS lately.  My wife always wants a "pop of color" in everything and these rigs definitely fit the bill.  Only 420 hitch weight and around 6000 GVWR if we load it up.  It seems like it should work with our existing F150.  What do you think?  

Unless she is tall , she may not appreciate that high mounted microwave . 

[2gypsies]

2 hours ago, Arnwrkr said:

thanks again for all the responses.  We did attend the RV Bootcamp a couple years ago, which is why I knew this would be the place to go for good advice.  The wife is not too hot on the eggshell type, too cramped for her.  Been looking at the Gulfstream Vintage Cruiser 23RSS lately.  My wife always wants a "pop of color" in everything and these rigs definitely fit the bill.  Only 420 hitch weight and around 6000 GVWR if we load it up.  It seems like it should work with our existing F150.  What do you think?  

You'll need to see one in person.  The microwave does seem high.  When touring RVs always pretend it's yours and test it as such.  Try out everything.... reaching the microwave, sitting on toilet for leg room, standing in tub for head room if using shower, sitting on dinette and sofa to make sure their comfortable for you.  Good luck in your search.

[LindaH]

On 1/13/2021 at 8:42 PM, Arnwrkr said:

We want one that we can pull with our 2016 F-150.  It has the tow package and a 3.5L engine.  

Here's the 2016 Ford Towing Guide.  Look up your truck based on engine, cab design, axle ratio, etc., and see what it says your ratings are.  Keep in mind that these rating are for a basic vehicle -- no options, no gear, a partial tank of fuel and only one 150-pound driver.  

https://www.fleet.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/aem_fleet/en_us/fleet/towing-guides/Ford_Linc_16RVTTowGuide.pdf

Take your truck and get it weighed with all the gear that will be loaded in the truck, and all the passengers and pets that will be traveling in the cab.  Once you get the real life weight of your loaded truck, subtract that weight from the truck's GVWR -- that will tell you what your real life payload is.  Then subtract the truck's weight from its GCWR -- that will tell you the maximum GVWR of the trailer you should be looking at.

Here's a weight calculator that will help you with all the math:

Travel Trailer Weight Calculator (changingears.com)

[fpmtngal]

5 hours ago, Arnwrkr said:

thanks again for all the responses.  We did attend the RV Bootcamp a couple years ago, which is why I knew this would be the place to go for good advice.  The wife is not too hot on the eggshell type, too cramped for her.  Been looking at the Gulfstream Vintage Cruiser 23RSS lately.  My wife always wants a "pop of color" in everything and these rigs definitely fit the bill.  Only 420 hitch weight and around 6000 GVWR if we load it up.  It seems like it should work with our existing F150.  What do you think?  

Be careful with manufacturer’s listed tongue weights - they are usually for a dry trailer.  You really should have a tongue weight of at least 10% and no more than 15%.  So for a 6,000 lb. trailer, your tongue weight should be somewhere around 720 lbs. - 420 lbs is only 7% of 6000 lbs.  I have a travel trailer that is 5500 lbs GVWR, it’s usually close to that now and I don’t think I’ve ever been under 5,000 lbs when loaded for a trip.  My tongue weight, with two Group 31 batteries and both propane tanks full varies from 700-750 lbs. - adding the second battery really added to the tongue weight (my batteries are just behind the two propane tanks), so don’t count on that 420 lbs.

Also check the sticker on the trailer to find out what it’s cargo capacity is - some trailers, when optioned, can be around 1,000 lbs less than GVWR (some even less than that, I don’t know how the Gulfstream trailers run though.  Mine is 1300 lbs, which is quite respectable for a small trailer).

I know someone who has a Gulfstream Vintage Cruiser but don’t know which model.  He really likes it.  He’s had the usual number of issues that RVs are likely to have (sail switch on the furnace for one, and some other things but I don’t remember now what they all have been).  That’s just one person’s opinion and experience, not a comment on the overall quality of Gulfstream.  He did have a problem with his order and his dealer turned out to be pretty useless.  But Gulfstream’s customer service was excellent and got everything sorted out.

 

[rickeieio]

I'm on my third F-150 w/ 3.5 engine.  So obviously, I like them.  And I'm a retired farmer, I'm not easy on trucks.  That said, consider trading up to a similar truck in the F-250 range.  It likely wouldn't cost much if you stay in the same model year and trim level, and you'll open the door to campers that will be more suitable for full timing.  Oh, and you'll be safer.  

Almost any truck will pull the load.  It's stopping where many fall short.

[Barbaraok]

So, if I understand correctly, this is to play with for the next two years, for weekend, 1-2 week trips, to get a feel for RVing, to learns the ins and outs of how systems are suppose to function and what to do when they don't, and that you will be trading this in on a full-timing rig?  

If so, stick with something the F-150 can handle, remind yourselves it is for short term only and learn to think "can this do more than one thing around the RV".   Pack minimally, get the rig weighed several times and see how close you come to limits as you pack, keep lists of things that work and don't work.    We got a Class C just for that purpose before we went full timing and bought the DP.  Best thing we ever did.  And you will know that full timing is really for you when you leave a camp ground and have to really fight not to turn the other direction from home and just "head out there"!😉

Edited January 18, 2021 by Barbaraok

[fpmtngal]

I agree with Barb - it is way too easy to get a first rig bigger than you need, and it’s pretty easy to be able to make a smaller rig work very well.  I know lots of couples who are very happy with trailers who have boxes that are 20-23 feet long (with a slide) - some who not only do weekend/weeklong trips, they have done multi-month long trips.  It’s more a mind-set type of thing.  For me it was almost a game to see what I could find that would save space and weight (I have collapsible bowls, collapsible salad spinner that also works as a colander and a big bowl, nesting pots and pans, etc.).

As has been mentioned before, when you look at an RV, consider what you are going to bring, where you can put it, and go through the motions of taking a shower, making a meal (I’m 5’ tall, so quite short.  I don’t mind a high microwave - I have a one step stool.  But I draw the line at a freezer I can’t see into without using that step stool).  And while you are doing that, think about what you don’t need - if you are weekend camping, do you need to bring evening wear and matching shoes?  Or will a pair of walking shoes and slippers be enough?  Things like that.

 

 

[Kirk W]

On 1/15/2021 at 10:01 AM, Arnwrkr said:

 Been looking at the Gulfstream Vintage Cruiser 23RSS lately. 

Being located in the Dallas area, you have many dealers and RVs to choose from. In looking at the ad you linked to, I have several comments. While the price seems to be in the right general range for the current market, we looked at the vintage RVs when we were last RV shopping and frankly, we found that the reasons the industry moved away from those styles, still apply today. The biggest item is the way that people sweat and tend to stick to the plastic seat coverings, but there were other things that caused us to walk away. 

As for the brand, it is a company that is pretty much in the mid range among reputations with both good and bad reviews. The 23' length should be find for 2 people. We travel with a 20' travel trailer that we have had for 8 years (2012 model) and find no problems with it, other than that the storage is very limited, as is the case with the one that you are considering, and most smaller RVs. That can be dealt with when you are only seasonal RVers since you do not need to carry everything with you. Unless you have several pets or a very large one, you should be able to make this one work, or one of similar size. We have spent as much as 5 consecutive months in our travel trailer by staying where weather is moderate. I do think that you should take a lot of time and look at a lot of RVs before you make up your mind. I too live in the Dallas area and am familiar with that dealership. We bought our present RV from Athens RV, just east of Athens TX. I have done business with several other dealers in this area, but none recently. I would strongly suggest that when you believe that you have found the one for you, pay one of the RV inspections services or a mobile RV tech to go and evaluate it for you before you buy it.

[RV_]

Here's some more suggestions for you to know you have it right.

You already have the truck so do these things before you even look if you are sticking with a half ton F-150.

The sticker on your truck should have a GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). That is the maximum your truck can weigh with all passengers, all the gear inside and carried out in the bed, and your tongue or pin weight for fivers. So load up the truck like you would for an extended camping trip, fill the gas tank, and have all the passengers you will have while traveling. Then loaded drive to the nearest scales and pay to have it weighed with you, and any passengers in it. Get your weight ticket and see how close you are to the GVWR. Keep that weight and add the tongue or pin weight to that when shopping to be close.

With half tons and even 3/4 tons that isn't the only important part. There is another abbreviation on that sticker or you can look up online for your exact truck - GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating) which is the total weight of your truck, fully loaded, with all passengers, full gas tank, and gear.

Then you add that and your trailer weight with full water tanks, propane cylinders and batteries, all your kitchen stuff and clothes and anything else like soap flatware, plates and pots/pans, any tools and guns computers ammo etc that are in the trailer. don't forget lawn chairs, ladder, rugs, etc. Your truck and trailer GCVWR must not under any circumstances exceed the GCVWR of the loaded truck and trailer combined. THe easiest way to do this is to first look at the dry and wet weights of your trailer. Use the wet weight, and weigh your trailer. The difference between these is your Load or carry capacity or whatever they call it these days. Most couples use ~ 1000-1500 pounds each full timing. Some much more some much less.

If you break the GCVWR your stopping in emergencies and downhill control could become iffy to dangerous. I like to stay at 80% of GCVWR or less.

Since you already have your truck, and you're serious, do the GVWR of your truck loaded down as you would for an extended camping trip and weigh it and then you can address the camper size you can have. Your truck weight cannot be more than the GVWR on the truck sticker. Subtract your loaded weight from the GCVWR and that is how much your trailer and contents must stay below. Having that info can inform your trailer search, or start your truck and trailer search.

It is up to you to limit the trailer or buy both new allowing a larger trailer and a safety margin of about 20% or what ever you decide under the weight restrictions of your truck. It's your adventure, your preferences that count. Within weight limits.

As well if you are maxed out on all your weights or over you are beating up all the suspension and drive-train components and your truck won't last as long as it would in normal off load use.

So that is what I would suggest since you have the truck you want to use. If it gets too close remember the trailer hauler and fiver driver creed: "You can never have too much truck." You can have too much trailer, too much to eat and too much gear but you can never have too much truck.

Hope that helps!

Edited January 17, 2021 by RV_

[rickeieio]

Original poster never said much about their truck, other than it's an F-150.  I can tell you, with my last F-150, with my every day tool box, full of fuel, and wife along, I was right at max gvwr.  No cargo in the bed, no hitch weight, nada.  Things like a duffel bag with some clean cloths, console full of "stuff", ipad in the pouch on the back of the seat, rubber bed mat, all add up.  Crew cab, 4wd, and few options all eat into that magic number.

So, when I bought my newer truck, I got a shorter bed, took a couple hundred pounds of tools out of the box, eliminated some of the things stowed under the back seat, etc.  I haven't weighed it yet.  Maybe I can haul a couple grandkids.

[Barbaraok]

They are looking for something to play with before fulltiming.  Why replace the truck until they know something about RVing.

I’d suggest they also rent a Class C for a week to see if a MH of some size would be better for them.

[RV_]

29 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

They are looking for something to play with before fulltiming.  Why replace the truck until they know something about RVing.

I’d suggest they also rent a Class C for a week to see if a MH of some size would be better for them.

Because Barb the trailer they are playing with may well be too heavy for the truck otherwise. Getting their current truck weighed gives them the limits of what they can play with - safely. The truck decision is later, after they decide what they want size wise. If the trailer that can be towed by their truck suits they keep the truck and get the trailer size they played with.

That was my point. Start within weights, see if the truck and trailer suits. Then they will know and play safely. And learning GCVWR keeps them safe going down the road so long as the trailer is within its GVWR, the truck is within its GVWR, and combined they don't exceed the truck's GCVWR.

What is safe may be too small for them so they get a bigger trailer and a bigger truck later when they retire. I am suggesting matching the truck they have, right? Weights still are critical regardless.

Edited January 17, 2021 by RV_

[Barbaraok]

Then explain to them why they need to look at other options for trailers.  

[sandsys]

1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

Then explain to them why they need to look at other options for trailers.  

When I suggested they look at fiberglass eggs they said too small. So they want to pull a larger trailer with their small truck. How many ways can we explain that's not a good idea? We've tried talking about pulling power. We've tried talking about stopping power. We've tried talking about the limits of stuff they can bring. They need to somehow understand that, if they want a bigger trailer, they need to buy a bigger truck. Having them look at weights seems to me to be the only way left to teach them that.

Linda

[Jinx & Wayne]

1 hour ago, sandsys said:

Having them look at weights seems to me to be the only way left to teach them that.

And don't forget GAWR Gross Axle Weight Rating, the rear axle is a particular problem.  Have the rig weighed axle by axle.  The GAWR is on the door panel.  Don't exceed that number either.

 

Wayne & Jinx
2017 F-350 diesel, dually
2006 Carriage Carri-Lite 36KSQ

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, sandsys said:

 So they want to pull a larger trailer with their small truck. How many ways can we explain that's not a good idea?

The RV which Arnwrkr is considering has a GVWR of 6400#. The F150 has a wide range in load capacities, depending upon the configuration. The maximum towing weight ranges from as low as 5,000# to as much as 11,300#.