Waiting to 65 to retire - death risk versus finances

[Lou Schneider]

On 8/4/2022 at 5:51 AM, GlennWest said:

That is sad story. I am debt free. First time in adult life. Going to stay that way as long as possible. I am building up savings now to build that small home I posted about. But my comment was regarding rising cost. It is going way too fast. Wages are not. 

Except for taking out a loan for a fixer-upper mobile home in my mid 20s, I always paid cash throughout my life.  One good thing my ex-wife did after I married her at age 50 was to give me a couple of high balance credit cards in my name (her late husband was an early Microsoft employee and she inherited a seriously significant amount of Microsoft stock).   I gave up my career when we married to move to her home in WA state, when we divorced 5 years later it was a clean break with no alimony on either side due to a pre-nupt.  She kept the new house we built and gave me the 15 year old motorhome because she couldn't drive it.  More than fair since her money paid for them.   I had few assets after the divorce so I basically lived off of those cards for a couple of years, boondocking in the southern deserts in the winter and in the cooler mountains during the summer.  This was several years before Bob Wells started pushing the same ideas on his Cheap RV Living website.

Eventually I got a good paying job in Los Angeles and continued living in the motorhome after finding a long term space in a nice RV park for significantly less than renting an apartment.  I paid off the credit cards using no interest balance transfer offers.  I only had to pay a 4% balance transfer fee twice a year and then had no interest for 6 months. Much better than the 18% - 24% credit card interest rates.  Just bounced the balances from one card to the next and paid off two years of living expenses in about a year and a half.  This was about the time Derek was pushing the $20 Tesla stock and I figured I would be better off paying off my debt instead of investing.  I never did have a good head for finance.

Anyway, I've been debt free since then and retired 5 years ago after working another couple of years to build up a nice nest egg.  Thanks to the low cost of having a home base in an Escapees co-op park I'm enjoying a comfortable retirement on my Social Security.  Including having enough funds to travel whenever I want.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Lou Schneider

[packnrat]

ok good points to think about. ( i just skipped down) but what about medical? medicare does not kick in till 65.

if i retire next year (age 63) how do i pay for medical? sure obama program has no tax penalty (if i read it correctly) if you would rather have real care. but in ca they have there own (kicked out the obama program) and ca has a tax penalty.  if you do not want cacare service.

sad my employer does not want to even do a 5 year gap coverage, even for those who have put in 15 + years, afraid all the good drivers will leave. instead we have been working far longer than even some want to, and die on the job (varied reasons). yes two have died "behind the wheel" in the past three years. luckily not while moving. and one in the warehouse just last month. hart attack.

my DR says i am pushing for a stoke.

how does one cover themselves for a couple years? the watered down "retirement" plan i can buy. still cost's $1600.USD a month. that's more than my house payment, taxes, and all my insurance combined.

this is the second big question for my retirement age.

first is taxes. but we will not go there.

if there is a medical thread i have not found it.

[Blues]

6 hours ago, packnrat said:

if i retire next year (age 63) how do i pay for medical? sure obama program has no tax penalty (if i read it correctly) if you would rather have real care. but in ca they have there own (kicked out the obama program) and ca has a tax penalty.  if you do not want cacare service.

I'm not sure what you mean by "real care."  Can you explain? 

[Randyretired]

My DW and I were able to retire before 50 because her employer offered healthcare for life and pension.  This was during a down sizing phase. Without that it would not have been possible.  Her former employer stopped offering that just months after she retired.  Healthcare today can ruin most budgets before Medicare.  Even with Medicare most need to budget carefully.

[Kirk W]

12 hours ago, packnrat said:

if there is a medical thread i have not found it.

There is one that you may want to take a look at to see what is there than may help you, but since it is also a budget issue, the subject fits here as well. If you wish Health Issues and Medical Insurance may have some information that you would be interested in. Mean time, there is no reason not to continue here. I think that a good place to start looking would be on HealthCare.gov as there is no fee and it should be helpfull. If you plan to stay domiciled in California, you will need to use the Covered California site as they seem to have prempted the federal site. If your health problems will qualify you for disability then you may qualify for Medicare now so you should probably look into that.

28 minutes ago, Randyretired said:

My DW and I were able to retire before 50 because her employer offered healthcare for life and pension. 

We would not have been able to afford to take my employer's early retirement plan had it not also included heathcare insurance. And even today, they pay for our Medicare supplemental coverage. We are very fortunate. 

[packnrat]

4 hours ago, Kirk W said:

There is one that you may want to take a look at to see what is there than may help you, but since it is also a budget issue, the subject fits here as well. If you wish Health Issues and Medical Insurance may have some information that you would be interested in. Mean time, there is no reason not to continue here. I think that a good place to start looking would be on HealthCare.gov as there is no fee and it should be helpfull. If you plan to stay domiciled in California, you will need to use the Covered California site as they seem to have prempted the federal site. If your health problems will qualify you for disability then you may qualify for Medicare now so you should probably look into that.

We would not have been able to afford to take my employer's early retirement plan had it not also included heathcare insurance. And even today, they pay for our Medicare supplemental coverage. We are very fortunate. 

my Dr (works for kaiser) will not do a disability. company policy. you know of a Dr in northern ca that will do a disability for me?  i only got my class A drivers med card re-uped this year cause the DR faked the bp numbers.

and i am required to stay in ca for some years from now (family, sick mom). and you want to buy some of my stuff. i got's lots of stuff i can sell you.

but the ca take over of health care (all privet health company's must do as ca say's. not what is needed for there customers). is a dismal failure. less coverage more cash out. and it has a tax penalty if you do not want it. why should i have to pay more taxes if i do not want something? (personal),  not quite like paying a tax for the roads. (public).

[packnrat]

9 hours ago, Blues said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "real care."  Can you explain? 

pay for what you need and want. not restriced care. given out by a bureaucrat. (or lesser person),  as i have read obama restricts your care based on what some office worker in some dark lonely building reading a flow chart says you can/cannot have. and you still must pay for full boat coverage.

a DR who makes money off caring for you has a very good reason to make sure you are treated right. (you live he gets paid).

more and more Dr's are no longer seeing patients that are under a gov health deal. including medicare. a couple of my moms Dr's have dropped medicare, as they were losing money.

does this answer your question?

[packnrat]

On 8/4/2022 at 5:01 AM, palmeris said:

Gateway computers had the cow boxes 

yea that's them.

[Blues]

15 hours ago, packnrat said:

pay for what you need and want. not restriced care. given out by a bureaucrat. (or lesser person),  as i have read obama restricts your care based on what some office worker in some dark lonely building reading a flow chart says you can/cannot have. and you still must pay for full boat coverage.

I'm glad I asked, because I don't know what you've been reading but your understanding of Obamacare couldn't be more wrong.  All Obamacare does is provide a way for people to buy health insurance from insurance companies (like Kaiser or Blue Cross).  Obamacare doesn't restrict anyone's care at all.  In fact, it expanded the care people receive under their insurance policies.

The only thing Obamacare "tells" the insurance companies is that if they want their plan to qualify as an Obamacare plan, the plan has to cover specific services (like preventive care), it can't have a lifetime limit on coverage, and it can't exclude any coverage based on pre-existing conditions.  All plans offered on the Exchange meet those requirements, and the consumer can pick whichever one he wants, based on whatever factors he wants--which insurance company is offering it, premium amount, deductible amount, co-pays, coverage network, whether it's an HMO or a PPO. 

Once he picks a plan, it's a contract between him and the insurance company, and the insurance company provides coverage according to the contract. 

Obamacare isn't involved in any individual's care whatsoever.

[Lou Schneider]

I retired in 2015 at age 63 and decided to roll the dice on healthcare, deciding to self insure until Medicare kicked in at 65.

I'd been going to Los Algodones every winter since the mid 1990s for my annual dental checkups and eye exams and my eyes still work and I have all of my own teeth.  Lifeline Health Screening tours the country setting up pop-up clinics where for a couple of hundred bucks you can make an appointment to get bloodwork done, EKG and bone density tests and screening for high blood pressure, peripheral artery disease and abdominal aortic aneurysims.  My ex-wife was a former nurse and introduced me to them when we were living in WA.  It's in an assembly line fashion but very efficient and not bad at all. Escapees also has their annual Octoberfest Health Fair with similar testing if you're near Livingston.

I figured switching to a lower stress lifestyle had to improve the odds on my overall health.  I started watching what I ate, exercised and made a conscious effort to relax and de-stress.  I went to walk-in Urgent Care centers and paid cash the few times I needed help for things like a deep cut. 

Worst case an emergency room has to treat you for a life threatening condition and they'll figure out the financials later.  The other guy's insurance covered my ambulance ride and emergency room treatment when the police report said he was at fault for an accident that totalled both vehicles and the settlement for the truck paid for another one after some careful shopping.

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Lou Schneider

[Ray,IN]

Off-topic but if anyone is actually interested here is the entire American Heath Care Act often referred to as Obamacare, all 1,018 pages.

[RV_]

On 8/8/2022 at 9:50 PM, Lou Schneider said:

 This was about the time Derek was pushing the $20 Tesla stock and I figured I would be better off paying off my debt instead of investing.  I never did have a good head for finance.

 

I hear that a lot Lou. I am about to hear it again before and after the 3-1 Tesla stock split. Anyone who owns shares today will have three time the shares on the morning of the 25th. Shares should be trading at ~1/3 of what they were the day before the split. So if like today it's trading @  ~$900 will trade open on the 25th ~ $300 or whatever a ~ a third of the closing price the day before.

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by RV_

[Kirk W]

On 8/8/2022 at 10:50 PM, Lou Schneider said:

This was about the time Derek was pushing the $20 Tesla stock and I figured I would be better off paying off my debt instead of investing. 

Funny thing about that is that most financial experts seem to suggest the same thing.  I was in many ways more fortunate than you in that I found employement after the Navy that gave me a fair fixed pension with a bridge to SS at 57 and even supplied us with health insurance. All of that with a company contribution to a 401k, but they didn't put that into Tesla or even off that as an option! 

On 8/10/2022 at 8:06 PM, Lou Schneider said:

Lifeline Health Screening tours the country setting up pop-up clinics where for a couple of hundred bucks you can make an appointment to get bloodwork done, EKG and bone density tests and screening for high blood pressure, peripheral artery disease and abdominal aortic aneurysims. 

I have heard of Lifeline as I know someone who piad for one of their complete screenings just before retirement. Looking through the list of "Extras for Men" list, I have had most of those at one time or another but not together as a group and generally only when something caused my primary care physician to order it or refer me to a specialist. Just had the full gamet of cardiac tests and a check out by a pulmonologist and the diagnosis is excess birthdays! 

[RV_]

Lou I am glad you paid off your debt and are in a good position today. We have been debt free, house note free, and car note free for decades, It's a good feeling no?

Our medical is Tricare for Life as a Medicare supplement (retired military medical.) So not something civilians and non retiree vets can use.

I just let my friends know about Tesla. I have been extremely interested in EVs and very enthusiastic about any chance of getting one. it was 2003 when Musk bought into Tesla and not until 2008 for the first roadsters and then 2010 to be able to buy stock on their IPO.

Since we were stationed in Germany 1990-1997 and became expert skiers. We skied many of the great slopes in Austria, Italy, France, and Switzerland. We  spent a week every year in Zermatt (The Matterhorn) Switzerland. They have forbidden Internal Combustion Engines (ICE) vehicles since 1978! You have to park at the bottom and take the electric cog rail train up. There is a road up the mountain but only used by ICE vehicles in emergencies. That was our first taste of EVs and riding in them. We were amazed at how fast they were then, and how much the pickups could haul. They provided free taxi service for us tourists and the EVS although open air with a windshield much like a Golf cart but much faster. They had to make their own EVs for their town to get the vehicles they needed in 1978 and build them to this day. http://zermatt.com/history-of-electric-bus-in-zermatt/

Ever since the first time we went we have been wanting a highway capable EV and finally in 2020 got one and love it!

Rivian is becoming a disappointment, both as an investment and their way of doing business. I will post about it later once I get an answer from them. So I may be cancelling my order and putting in one for a Tesla Cybertruck and in the meantime find a used Tesla we can drive or keep the Forester until the Cybertruck goes into production if we choose to cancel our Rivian order for breaking our contract price-wise. So I don't always win. I am fine so long as any losses are not significant.

I had a saying in the military my folks knew among many by heart - "I don't want to hear the labor pains, just show me the baby!" Wars aren't won by shooting/launching excuses. 🖖

 

[Kirk W]

10 hours ago, RV_ said:

I just let my friends know about Tesla.

[TXiceman]

I have read about Tesla and all the other wannabe EVs and for now, I am not ready for one.  EVs are still in their early stages of development, and I look at them as glorified golf carts for now.  Give them a few more years, but by that time I will probably not be driving anything, except possibly an electric wheelchair.  I guess I will eventually wind up with an "EV".

Ken

[Lou Schneider]

49 minutes ago, TXiceman said:

I have read about Tesla and all the other wannabe EVs and for now, I am not ready for one.  EVs are still in their early stages of development, and I look at them as glorified golf carts for now.  Give them a few more years, but by that time I will probably not be driving anything, except possibly an electric wheelchair.  I guess I will eventually wind up with an "EV".

Ken

300 mile ranges with zero to 60 times in the low single digits are more than glorified golf carts.

[RV_]

 

5 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Ever been to Zermatt Kirk? Check out the link. The buses were not open air then either they look the same today. Some of the small taxis were as we are in ski suits and boots/gloves/gear when there going to or coming from the lifts and Apres Ski pubs.

Like here, we'd been riding buses and taxis to and from the whole week, a much younger me is enjoying a beer with lunch and feeding a bird a french fry at the top of the Zermatt lift restaurant and pub with the Matterhorn behind me at ~ age 40:

You are a trip Kirk! http://zermatt.com/history-of-electric-bus-in-zermatt/

Being there started a passion in me. Glad I still have them! 😜

Edited August 19, 2022 by RV_

[Blues]

On 8/10/2022 at 8:06 PM, Lou Schneider said:

Worst case an emergency room has to treat you for a life threatening condition and they'll figure out the financials later. 

I'm not sure that's the worst case scenario.  Figuring out the financials later is possible in emergencies, since they're required to treat you, but you'll still owe whatever you're charged, sending you into bankruptcy if you can't pay.

Also, they're required only to stabilize you.  They can kick you out once you're stabilized, and at that point you'll have to find someone who will treat uninsured patients and figure out how to pay for it yourself. 

Just look at how many gofundme appeals are for medical expenses, and most are for ongoing treatment, not paying for emergency care they received.  And medical debt is responsible for something like 60% of personal bankruptcies.

[RV_]

31 minutes ago, Lou Schneider said:

300 mile ranges with zero to 60 times in the low single digits are more than glorified golf carts.

Yep Lou they sure are. I get a lot of sour grapes here but in real life folks used to act like I was driving a Ferrari in the day. Now, at least up here in Colorado, there are so many I don't even notice the others like I did two years ago. I give a lot of rides as folks are blown away by even my slow Tesla's launch, and acceleration once at speed, is even faster without downshifting with no mechanical noise, smell or drama. Teslas, mostly model Y, are everywhere here. I am continually amazed by mine with new regularly added with Over The Air (OTA updates) About a year ago they changed my backup camera single view to a left and right view under the top 2/3rds three camera view that lets me see earlier when backing out of parking spaces with trucks on either side sooner. Then a couple of months ago they added a blind spot view only when the directional is on which is amazing in that nothing can surprise me anymore as long as I glance at the screen instead of trying to turn around and look at either lane.

I have the slowest Tesla but here are the ICE ones in my league 0-60 wise only - they still have all the heat and hoses and exhaust and ignition systems still lose traction and are subject to gas prices.(give or take a fraction of a second 0-60 time) Bear in mind with those big engines some get terrible MPG: Mine cost $49,999.99 and got a $4k rebate, but they cost more now and get rebates and again tax credits. So here are the under $50k fast cars of 2022. A really interesting article to me.

https://www.carhp.com/news/fastest-cars-under-50-000-to-get-in-2022#:~:text=The 2022 Dodge Challenger R%2FT Scat Pack is,4.5 seconds and tops out at 185 MPH.

 

 

[RV_]

20 minutes ago, Blues said:

I'm not sure that's the worst case scenario.  Figuring out the financials later is possible in emergencies, since they're required to treat you, but you'll still owe whatever you're charged, sending you into bankruptcy if you can't pay.

Also, they're required only to stabilize you.  They can kick you out once you're stabilized, and at that point you'll have to find someone who will treat uninsured patients and figure out how to pay for it yourself. 

Just look at how many gofundme appeals are for medical expenses, and most are for ongoing treatment, not paying for emergency care they received.  And medical debt is responsible for something like 60% of personal bankruptcies.

Blues that is terrible to be subject to that kind of "Sword of Damacles" scenario. I hope all of the uninsured folks can get what they need without losing it all in our terrible corporate run health system. We are the only first world nation without universal health care in the world. And that's a shame.

[GlennWest]

You actually want our government running our healthcare?

[Kirk W]

The subject of the thread was financial issues of retiring at 62 or waiting to reach the age of 65 and Medicare, or even past that to attain full social security. In an effort to stay on topic, I started a new thread to discuss healthcare in the Health & Medical Issues fourm titled Universal Healthcare versus Medicade.    Thanks!