Insurance Exclusions

[rickeieio]

So, all the discussion about Randy A's fire and insurance got me thinking.  I called Miller in Oregon to get a quote on our rig.  While the price is very attractive, the fact that they're telling me I can pull ONLY the fifth wheel trailer on the same policy as the truck is troubling.

I looked over our current policy, and it clearly states I'm allowed to pull any non-commercial trailer.  While this wouldn't normally be an issue, I recently had a need to move our daughter's 5er.  I wouldn't be covered if I go through Miller.

So, has everyone read their policy?  Would you be able to help a friend in need?  I can't see giving up the freedom to pull my other trailers, or other's' trailers, to save a few bucks.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

We're with National General.  When we switched/got dropped from Blue Sky, our conditions were that the truck was insured for all bobtail driving, and pulling trailers other than our own.  Not just another RV, but utility trailers, U-Haul, etc. The truck is our only vehicle so we do need the flexibility in our policy.

[Big5er]

I'll have to go double check my National General policy through Miller but I swear it says any non commercial trailer. I wonder if that is state specific?

[chooseopen]

We went with a Progressive policy through Miller and they gave me the same warning but I read that darn contract 3 times and cant't find where it actually says it.  

[rickeieio]

12 hours ago, chooseopen said:

We went with a Progressive policy through Miller and they gave me the same warning but I read that darn contract 3 times and cant't find where it actually says it.  

My current Progressive policy allows any non-com trailer.  But Miller says any policy they write will limit me to the trailer on the policy with the truck.  They emailed me a quote last week, and I asked for a list of exclusions, followed up by a call yesterday.  They promised to have a "senior underwriter" call me back.  So far, no word.

[Nuke-E]

Make sure you look at it closely--it may not be as bad as it seems.  The comprehensive/collision portion of my policy includes any trailer I pull, up to some pretty low amount ($2,500 I think), while the liability portion includes damage caused by a trailer without any separate limits.

If it's just that another trailer wouldn't get comp/collision coverage from your RV policy while being towed, that isn't unreasonable or a big deal.  If you're essentially uninsured if towing another trailer (liability coverage, i.e. what the law requires), that would be a show-stopper.

[rickeieio]

3 hours ago, Nuke-E said:

Make sure you look at it closely--it may not be as bad as it seems.  The comprehensive/collision portion of my policy includes any trailer I pull, up to some pretty low amount ($2,500 I think), while the liability portion includes damage caused by a trailer without any separate limits.

If it's just that another trailer wouldn't get comp/collision coverage from your RV policy while being towed, that isn't unreasonable or a big deal.  If you're essentially uninsured if towing another trailer (liability coverage, i.e. what the law requires), that would be a show-stopper.

The way they stated it, it's that latter portion that scares me.  And that's what she's saying, thus my unanswered request for clarification.

Hopefully, I'll get an answer soon.

[RandyA]

I now have National General.  When Blue Sky quit writing I contacted Miller.  They told me that National General would not insure me because my Volvo was titled as a motorhome and thus it was a toter home if I hooked a fiver to it.  I considered this crazy and called National General directly, which I encourage anyone interested in this company to do.  You do not need a middleman like Miller.  My policy is for full-timers.  No exclusions on what I can pull as long as it is non-commercial.  I can bobtail anytime as well.  The full-time coverage I bought directly from NG was only slightly higher than what Miller quoted me on a "camper" policy during the first go-around.  But the coverage and options were much better for full-time.

I was surprised to learn last week that my homeowner's policy also covers the personal items lost in the fire.  Our list of items is over $14,000 and the deductible is $1,500.  My personal property coverage under my homeowners is $200,000 and that amount is the cap for what we lost in the fire.  Very interesting - we will need to wait and see what actually happens.  If you have a brick and sticks home you also insure you may not want to pay the extra for personal items coverage on your rig.  I had elected $7,000 coverage on my NG policy, which was $5,000 over the normal RV coverage of $2,000.  The premium difference was small but does add to the cost.  BTW, the trailer was covered by comprehensive and was a total loss.  NG didn't pay me what I had invested but did offer a fair amount which was over NADA book.  If I had elected not to have comprehensive I would have gotten nothing for the fiver.  Obviously, it is important to keep comprehensive on both truck and trailer.  I've been pleased with NG's response to my claim. 

[JPL]

Randy/All    i have to agree with Randy about NG. When we totaled our 5er in July of 2016 they paid off by replacing the 2015 with a 2017 plus the deductible of $250. And they helped to make it as quick as possible. It still took 10 weeks to get into the 2017 that 10 days later we left Va for Key West and broke it in on the road for 6 wks. So shop around and remember the ad says "I chose the wrong Insurance company". But I feel like we chose the right company!     Pat

 

 

The Old Sailor 

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

When we broke the frame on our Carrilite, Blue Sky paid us our purchase price of the Carrilite, plus refunded us our deductible because we never used the insurance in 4 years.  

[RandyA]

19 hours ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

When we broke the frame on our Carrilite, Blue Sky paid us our purchase price of the Carrilite, plus refunded us our deductible because we never used the insurance in 4 years.  

But Jim, Blue Sky is out of the RV business.  Too bad too.  I had reached the zero deductible and had replacement value coverage.  I've got to earn it back with NG and no longer have the replacement value coverage - paying for a similar make and model regardless of year. 

Looking back at Rick's question I believe he feels like me in that an insurance policy reads like something a lawyer would write up rather than everyday language.  I'm one of those guys that just says, "Give me everything".  These days comprehensive, uninsured motorist, underinsured motorist, and high liability coverage are a must.  Medical pay, collision and towing are an option.  Medical pay is only needed if one does not have medical insurance or has a super high annual deductible medical insurance.  The language of the policy where it is stated about the fiver and truck having to be connected to get coverage for the truck is tricky.  I have read where some folks can only drive the truck bobtail for fuel and service.  They limit you so that the truck cannot be a daily driver.  My NG policy allows me to use the truck as an anytime grocery getter but they did want to know if I owned another vehicle.  While I did not receive a "no way" answer it appeared that if I did not own another vehicle they were not too interested in writing a policy that allowed me to drive the HDT without the fiver hooked up.  No, I could not find a clause about "other trailers" when I skimmed my policy exclusions.  I would venture to say if your policy is linked with the HDT and fiver and you were involved in a wreck that damaged a trailer other than the one you insure the first insurance to give coverage would be the one on the foreign trailer.  I'll need to read the small print on my policy more carefully to be sure.

[rickeieio]

The corn-fusion just keeps on coming.......

 Miller gave me a great quote ($738/yr for both pieces), but thus far haven't specified the underwriter, nor have they supplied me with the requested list of exclusions.  It's been a full week since my requests, both via email and over the phone.

 I also called National General directly, and they said I can pull any trailer, so long it's not commercial.  Interestingly, the quote I got from NG was nearly double the one through Miller, and very nearly the same as my current policy through Progressive.

Frankly, I can't see paying a lot of money for stated value over cash value, as the odds of something happening are low, and life's a gamble.  I don't have a high end rig, and so if I had a total, uncovered loss, it wouldn't be the end of the world.  Yes, it would hurt, but what I save in premiums over several years might go a long way towards putting us back on the road. Heck, I went years without collision an any of our vehicles, back when we drove older stuff.  But now we're old, and with spotless driving records, collision is cheap.  Liability is another matter.  I carry the max, plus an umbrella.

[VegasFlyer]

4 hours ago, RandyA said:

But Jim, Blue Sky is out of the RV business.  Too bad too.  I had reached the zero deductible and had replacement value coverage.  I've got to earn it back with NG and no longer have the replacement value coverage - paying for a similar make and model regardless of year. 

Looking back at Rick's question I believe he feels like me in that an insurance policy reads like something a lawyer would write up rather than everyday language.  I'm one of those guys that just says, "Give me everything".  These days comprehensive, uninsured motorist, underinsured motorist, and high liability coverage are a must.  Medical pay, collision and towing are an option.  Medical pay is only needed if one does not have medical insurance or has a super high annual deductible medical insurance.  The language of the policy where it is stated about the fiver and truck having to be connected to get coverage for the truck is tricky.  I have read where some folks can only drive the truck bobtail for fuel and service.  They limit you so that the truck cannot be a daily driver.  My NG policy allows me to use the truck as an anytime grocery getter but they did want to know if I owned another vehicle.  While I did not receive a "no way" answer it appeared that if I did not own another vehicle they were not too interested in writing a policy that allowed me to drive the HDT without the fiver hooked up.  No, I could not find a clause about "other trailers" when I skimmed my policy exclusions.  I would venture to say if your policy is linked with the HDT and fiver and you were involved in a wreck that damaged a trailer other than the one you insure the first insurance to give coverage would be the one on the foreign trailer.  I'll need to read the small print on my policy more carefully to be sure.

Randy,

Actually BlueSky may be back in the game.  We got a call last week and they want to quote us since they know are policy is coming up for renewal.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

5 hours ago, RandyA said:

But Jim, Blue Sky is out of the RV business.  Too bad too.  I had reached the zero deductible and had replacement value coverage.  I've got to earn it back with NG and no longer have the replacement value coverage - paying for a similar make and model regardless of year. 

Looking back at Rick's question I believe he feels like me in that an insurance policy reads like something a lawyer would write up rather than everyday language.  I'm one of those guys that just says, "Give me everything".  These days comprehensive, uninsured motorist, underinsured motorist, and high liability coverage are a must.  Medical pay, collision and towing are an option.  Medical pay is only needed if one does not have medical insurance or has a super high annual deductible medical insurance.  The language of the policy where it is stated about the fiver and truck having to be connected to get coverage for the truck is tricky.  I have read where some folks can only drive the truck bobtail for fuel and service.  They limit you so that the truck cannot be a daily driver.  My NG policy allows me to use the truck as an anytime grocery getter but they did want to know if I owned another vehicle.  While I did not receive a "no way" answer it appeared that if I did not own another vehicle they were not too interested in writing a policy that allowed me to drive the HDT without the fiver hooked up.  No, I could not find a clause about "other trailers" when I skimmed my policy exclusions.  I would venture to say if your policy is linked with the HDT and fiver and you were involved in a wreck that damaged a trailer other than the one you insure the first insurance to give coverage would be the one on the foreign trailer.  I'll need to read the small print on my policy more carefully to be sure.

Yes, They dropped/canceled us Oct 2017.  we went with National General thru Doughtry Insurance in Sioux Falls.

[HERO Maker]

John, I don't think is will be Blue Sky, but the company behind it, or the underwriter, or whatever. RCI, or RIC????   I got the same call the other day.  As soon as I said ministry owned, she withdrew.

[RandyA]

12 hours ago, VegasFlyer said:

Randy,

Actually BlueSky may be back in the game.  We got a call last week and they want to quote us since they know are policy is coming up for renewal.

2

That is good news.  Not that I intend to switch back, but after losing companies willing to write policies on our HDT's one is coming back rather than leaving. 

Quote

Frankly, I can't see paying a lot of money for stated value over cash value, as the odds of something happening are low, and life's a gamble.  I don't have a high end rig, and so if I had a total, uncovered loss, it wouldn't be the end of the world.  Yes, it would hurt, but what I save in premiums over several years might go a long way towards putting us back on the road. Heck, I went years without collision an any of our vehicles, back when we drove older stuff.  But now we're old, and with spotless driving records, collision is cheap.  Liability is another matter.  I carry the max, plus an umbrella.

1

Rick, yes..... collision is a gamble and an option.  I began to get really worried as my camper aged if I would get any decent coverage if something physical happened to the camper.  The truck is getting on up in her near senior years.  Book value is less than $15K, agreed value adds another $25K to the coverage.  We put so much "extra" in our vehicles - usually money we can't recover even if we sell the rig.  That is my biggest gamble as my time and the materials used are a matter of years of work, not hours.  One thing NG asked for on the trailer were receipts for all the upgrades.  OK - most of them were done by me using surplus parts.  Stuff like hydraulics, new carpet, kitchen floor, axles, disc brakes, and repaint.  They wanted to know how long ago these were done and the cost.  Of course, what receipts I have were in the camper and destroyed by the fire.  But the need for receipts to prove upgrades pretty much left my head spinning.  Still, we did get $7,500 more for the camper than Kelly Blue Book or NADA based on photos.  Not nearly enough to cover upgrades but I expected that when I did them.  Any insurance coverage is a crap shoot.  But, in my case it has paid off to my benefit over the years when we experienced unexpected property loss.  Health insurance has saved us well over $150,000 recently as our claims have reached over $20,000 the past few years.  We only pay $120 a month more than regular coverage for a Medicare Advantage PPO.  Several on this forum have been very glad to have collision or comprehensive coverage (Chet, Rocky and JPL come to mind) while others never have a claim and pay the same premium.  I personally consider the added cost of full coverage on the truck and trailer (agreed value on the truck) just part of annual maintenance like oil changes and a dead injector.

[rickeieio]

30 minutes ago, RandyA said:

I personally consider the added cost of full coverage on the truck and trailer (agreed value on the truck) just part of annual maintenance like oil changes and a dead injector.

Good points.  I wish I knew how much the additional premium would be for agreed value v. cash value.  More homework is required.

Collision is a place I don't mind being under insured, as even in a "total", there is some residual value.  But fire/comp is another matter, as your recent experience shows. 

I suppose another round of phone calls is needed.  I may end up adjusting the current coverage and staying with Progressive.  

[Papa Tom]

Just got off the phone with miller insurance. I had talked with Roxanne awhile back and she gave me a quote for my truck and fifth wheel. I asked about the exclusions for towing other personal trailers.She said that the only one allowed would be the one assigned to the policy. She also said that I was not allowed to bob tail other than short trips for food and gas. I said ok asked if my quote was still good. She  said let me check when she returned said her manager decided not to sell me a policy. I asked if I asked to many questions she said no that they are going to cater to  full-timers. Now looking for another place to go

[HERO Maker]

Randy, sent you a PM.

[jenandjon]

I got state farm as private passenger vehicle. They know its plated as a motor home. The agent came to my place and seen it for himself. I can go anywhere anytime trailer or not.

[DJohns]

I am about the same with Auto Owners. Word of warning about stated value is my agent says they will pay stated value as long as the rig appraises for that so be careful.  I would want to talk to underwriter about the stated value.

[Nuke-E]

On 4/1/2018 at 12:41 PM, Dan Johnson said:

I am about the same with Auto Owners. Word of warning about stated value is my agent says they will pay stated value as long as the rig appraises for that so be careful.  I would want to talk to underwriter about the stated value.

Yep.  Stated value sounds a lot like agreed value, but they're very different policies.  A "stated value" policy is essentially an actual cash value policy with a rating basis you give them--more of a "not to exceed" number.

[rickeieio]

Okay, in conclusion, I guess staying where I am, with Progressive, is easiest and covers my needs and concerns.  Would I like lower premiums?  Of course.  Would I like higher coverage?  Naturally.  Can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Cotreker]

Great read here... how do we go about getting an appraisal?  Having issues with Allstate with my 1 year renewal after upgrading my slide-in camper on the deck.

Dennis