Tandem and duals

[cadonnelly]

I am going to get all mixed up in my nomenclature here so bear with me.  My 610 with the Cat is a fairly long wheel base dual axle, that I am not going to single.  I have had 3 HDTs, singled two of them short and one long, now I want to keep both.  I saw a build picture, and lots of discussion about eliminating the inside tire on the tandem axle, replacing the rim with the correct off set and going down the road.  One of the beds was on a then purple Kenworth, with singles on the axles and it looked really nice.  What I am interested in is what has been the real world experience after making that modification?  Different ride, traction, stability, et al?  Thanks  Chuck Stillwater Mn

[rickeieio]

There are many opinions on this, and it's been discussed at length here.  Do a search and you'll have a couple of evenings worth of reading.

[cadonnelly]

No, I have done a lot of reading with the search feature, what i want is some one who did this and what his or her results have been.  If somebody can direct me to a thread like that i am all in.  Thanks

[rickeieio]

It's in the resource guide, Single v. duals.  I found it in under 30 seconds.

[cadonnelly]

Not here to argue, I saw it right away in the resource guide, I know how to do it, I want to hear from the folks who have done it.  I have singled long and short, and if asked can tell you the difference in ride quality, handling, and why groves on the freeway can get your attention when you are bob tailed.  So just want to hear from someone who has done it.  I saw a picture of  some one who had singled tired a Kenworth, but wasn't smart enough to write down the name of the owner..  It has taken me a while to get on here, lack of memory of various pass words etc.

7 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

 

 

[MrSeas]

Try this search on Google....,

site:rvnetwork.com single rear wheel on HDT

 

[hone eagle]

purly from memory -  look for worknrver 's posts he has done it for many miles

[gjhunter01]

4 hours ago, cadonnelly said:

I am going to get all mixed up in my nomenclature here so bear with me.  My 610 with the Cat is a fairly long wheel base dual axle, that I am not going to single.  I have had 3 HDTs, singled two of them short and one long, now I want to keep both.  I saw a build picture, and lots of discussion about eliminating the inside tire on the tandem axle, replacing the rim with the correct off set and going down the road.  One of the beds was on a then purple Kenworth, with singles on the axles and it looked really nice.  What I am interested in is what has been the real world experience after making that modification?  Different ride, traction, stability, et al?  Thanks  Chuck Stillwater Mn

This is just a suggestion, but try taking off one of your inside duals on both tandems and go for a road trip to see how it handles. I know this is not the same as what you are asking, but it should get you 80% of the feel and how your truck will react. This would be a low cost easy to do experiment.

Greg

[SuiteSuccess]

3 minutes ago, hone eagle said:

purly from memory -  look for worknrver 's posts he has done it for many miles

Yep, that was who I was going to say also. 

[cadonnelly]

Yep, found wrknrver, and realized he had done this, and has had good luck with it.  I was interested because I will only have about 10,500 lbs on the rear, and would really like a side wall on the tire to flex once in a while.

[cadonnelly]

Greg, you are probably correct, have a shop that I can use to get the rims off and on etc, and find out for sure what it would be like.

[BlueLghtning]

So basically this is turning the 2nd axle into a tag axle like a diesel pusher with only a singe rear tire on the tag axle? Would that move the pivot point forward a little bit and the first dual axle would over power the 2nd in turns for the most part or would it basically be the same? 

[Wrknrvr]

 It works great.

 It will turn on the front axle when not hooked to the fifth wheel but with the jeep loaded 

 it will turn on the center of the rear axles when the fifth wheel is connected 

 I run with about 25000 lbs on the rear axles when hooked to the fifth wheel and with the jeep loaded

 it rides better than dual wheels and better than single axle

 now do not visit Houston at all as doctor pepper will not help just keep him guessing

 

 in hiding .  Wrknrvr

 

 

 

[Av8r3400]

I'm not very smart, so please be patient with me.

Are you talking about the wide base (super single) tires or using the "standard" (285 or similar width) tires with a special zero offset wheel?

[Wrknrvr]

Single outside 11r 24.5 tires and wheel

 

 we have traveled about 180000 miles this way

[Av8r3400]

By your avatar photo, it looks like you used the standard dual offset wheel, is that correct?  Has this put undo stress on the hub bearings?

[cadonnelly]

Thanks Wrknrvr, just what I wanted to know.

 

Chuck

[hone eagle]

6 hours ago, Av8r3400 said:

By your avatar photo, it looks like you used the standard dual offset wheel, is that correct?  Has this put undo stress on the hub bearings?

you should be good for at least 180000 miles

That topic has been discussed adnusium,pro truckers are never any help, they can't make the mental 18 gear downshift to what rv'ers do.

[Wrknrvr]

 Chuck,   Take look at your rear axle without the wheels on.

 The bearings are about 80 percent off set to the outside of the center of the wheels on a standard axle. The brake shoes and accompanying parts are on the inside.

 Not many can understand that statement.

 So if one has dual tires on  then the bearings should wear out faster.

 I only went college for 2 days so I guess I am not educated.

 

 If you pull your wheels off then take the brake drum off. Just to see what is there.

 

 Take some pictures and the post them to see how wrong I am.

 

Safe Travels,.   Vern

[cadonnelly]

Thanks Vern will do.  Chuck

[peety3]

On 3/15/2017 at 7:04 PM, BlueLghtning said:

So basically this is turning the 2nd axle into a tag axle like a diesel pusher with only a singe rear tire on the tag axle? Would that move the pivot point forward a little bit and the first dual axle would over power the 2nd in turns for the most part or would it basically be the same? 

Be sure to be clear here: the typical HDT coming out of commercial service has 8 tires behind the cab. Some folks remove 2 tires, some folks remove 4 tires, many remove an axle (and by doing so, remove 4 tires). I'm of the very strong opinion that removing 2 tires is a very bad idea unless your weights are light enough to run on one axle 100% of the time. Removing just 2 of the 8 tires, without making MAJOR modifications to the suspension, cuts your weight capacity by 50%, as the suspension will always load both axles evenly; at 50% load, the 2-tire axle is now at max capacity. It also creates a loading imbalance between the axles, which will manifest itself in vastly different tire wear between the axles. As I see it, the only "benefit" is that you've always got two spare tires that are getting as much "attention" as the four others being driven, whereas singling the truck and carrying two spare tires elsewhere means you have to remember to check the spares.

[rickeieio]

Good points Peety. There may be way to fool the suspension into loading evenly, but I doubt it'd be worth the bother.

Now I have an observation......concerning bearing loading. Your wheel bearings are only loaded evenly if the road is flat. How many roads are? Given the light pin weights, and uneven road surfaces, running with one wheel on each axle end may be well within design parameters. Never mind if it's legal in Houston.

i'm bringing this up because it's been bantered to death, without considering the part about a non flat road.

[shorts]

Duals to single? why not like previously mentioned with the uneven roads and then take a close look at the tire wear patterns on commercial rigs, lots of mismatched tread wear and tire diameters due to replacing singles in a pair of duals, 1 used and 1new because it only had 1 bad tire or the tireman didn't want to manhandle the wheels when just a quick on the truck tire mount would get him done instead of matching up the tire diameters.

 

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

Chuck, Since I own one of your previous truck, I may have a little glimpse of what you're looking for.  WrknRVr will probably be the best resource sine he has 180k in the sought after configuration.  But knowing how the short wheelbase reacts to bridge joints, concrete highway joints, etc, I can comment on a recent drive in a tandem super single that I had the pleasure of driving about 30 miles with a goose neck 6 slant horse trailer attached.  It rode and tracked great.... to me,  granted it was a new(ish) Volvo 780 with an air ride front end that will ride differently than my (your) old '98 610, but I didn't feel any of the old Volvo singled short tracking/ride feeling.

[barlyn1]

Ive done it for 5years on two differnt trucks, just removed inside wheel/tire on each position.  A tandem tractor rides smoother than a single axle on rough roads.  I went to singles on the outside so i could get up my driveway (18% grade).  Weight on rear tandem are 13 to 14 thousand only.  About 50k miles is all.