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Guest THE TRAILERKING

 

Desolation Roe, on 23 Oct 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:snapback.png

My point was you don't need to spend the 5K a full commercial course costs if you can find someone to give you the condensed version appropriate to an RV.

 

Geo

EXACTLY!!

Actually up here you can get training for what ever Class license at what ever extent you require. All depends how much knowledge and experience you already have prior to any training. Some have to start at the bottom with zero experience (like never drove and shifted an 18 speed). Then some have some experience just need more honing of skills on Pre-Trips and safety skills. If one doesn't require much training then it won't cost as much.

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Again you dodged my question which was: where do you stand on NHRA racers having a DOT number, log book and following the rest of the required commercial regulations? I will assume that you think that every HDT driver should have training and an airbrake endorsement but that you think it is ok for racers to operate in total violation of the commercial regs by "claiming" to be RV'ers, when they are in fact commercial motor vehicles.

Actually up here you can get training for what ever Class license at what ever extent you require.

But we don't live "up there". And the people that govern our regulations (down here) are of a different opinion than you.

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I'm not "Heavy on RV's".......I'm implying that any person wanting to operate any HDT type vehicle (large, heavy, and air-brake equipped) should have training and knowledge of what they're operating. Not saying they all should have DOT #'s and fill out log books. There are people that just buy the truck and drive it but have no clue on the safety aspect and what to be watching for prior to lift-off. I can't believe that States don't require a person to carry an "Air Brake" endorsement on their drivers license.

Without being heavy worded like trailer king I must agree that I think any one driving a HDT should have some sort of training. And like George has said it should be pertinent to RVing.

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When you really think about it, its kind of strange that the insurance companies don't insist on it. Most places you can't get a driving job with less than 2 years experience because of their insurance policies, so why are heavy RVs different?

 

Is our total population so small we don't register on anyone's radar? Seems odd with the number of big Class As that you see on the road.

 

I've also wondered if some of the exemption rules are driven by legislators that own big Class As and don't want the hassle of getting the appropriate license. Or perhaps it driven by political donors dropping the appropriate hints.

 

Anywho, seems a bit odd.

 

Geo

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When you really think about it, its kind of strange that the insurance companies don't insist on it. Most places you can't get a driving job with less than 2 years experience because of their insurance policies, so why are heavy RVs different?

 

Is our total population so small we don't register on anyone's radar? Seems odd with the number of big Class As that you see on the road.

 

I've also wondered if some of the exemption rules are driven by legislators that own big Class As and don't want the hassle of getting the appropriate license. Or perhaps it driven by political donors dropping the appropriate hints.

 

Anywho, seems a bit odd.

 

Geo

 

Gentlemen..........

 

It's true I am a Geezer so help me out here..........are we talking about a "burning-desire-to-test & license & medical certify & log-book & and & and.....and.....and .............a certain "population" of large vehicle (RV's) that have a long history of pretty impressive overall safe operation .......

 

Trust me if a bunch of HDT / RV-geezers were a real road-hazard the Insurance folks would send us insurance premiums that would be Un-payable...........trust me Insurance know very well how to recognize and rate "risky-populations" and our VERY -LOW premiums are the results of good overall risk-history of a careful and well maintained trucks with CAREFUL operators.

 

It's well known that Canada has far more draconian regulations for almost anything that moves and obviously it seems to be what they feel that they must do as a population.......It's also well known that more than a few folks would like to have Americans institute this "higher-level-of-regulation" ......... Trust me our Canadian friends.........we might cut the HDT/RV geezers a bit of slack .......BUT......we Americans still have WAY-MORE than plenty of REGULATIONS, TESTS, FEES, PERMITS, MORE LICENSES, ETC, ETC .....to keep things screwed up......

 

I have stood back and watched these CDL this and CDL that threads ......and do we really think that a few more thousand CDL-drivers would "solve-the-worlds-problems" ........ the facts simply do not support this "mind-set"............

 

Here is a "CDL-test-for-you-to-observe"............ At midnight on any night pull out on to I-10 East bound out of Palm Springs CA and drive along in your car at say about 65-70 MPH and you will be passing hundreds of commercial semi-trucks and almost every truck will have a CDL-current driver rumbling-along about 60 MPH with pretty decent in-trail-distance to the next truck ahead.......IF a 'Cowboy-CDL-Trucker" scoots by at 65-75 MPH in short order the CHP has the 'Cowboy" pulled over and he has likely has some CDL-problems.......... so just keep driving East on I-10 and about a couple of hours you will cross a river and see a sign that says welcome to Arizona..........all of a sudden those same semi-trucks AND same CDL drivers start passing you at 75MPH or 79MPH or 88MPH ........AND........ often the trucks are "drafting-so-close" that a Smartcar could not fit between the trucks...........it's insane CDLoperations............oh yes and when the wrecks happen they are insane wrecks in spite of all the CDL licenses at the wreck site...........

 

...........Maybe you think that this might explain why commercial insurance rates at several times HIGHER than that of RV insurance rates.......sure commercial trucks have much higher-mileage-exposure but also the overall risk factor is increased by the need to keep tight and fast schedules for the majority of commercial operations..........the CDL was invented to attempt to introduce a measure of risk-control to commercial-truck-opperations ......not to somehow make some RV operators "feel-better"........

 

I only wish that every driver was a careful and concerned as the majority of HDT / RV drivers are............training is great and knowledge is great but give me careful any day ...........careful is the "bedrock-of-safety"..........

 

Drive on............(Be careful.......)

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It's been a ruff week, I had to work. This is more entertaining than shooting rats at the dump.

 

Save some for me Geo, don't forget butter

 

R

 

What Roger said ^ been there done that. Oh by the way uncorking the magazine on the pump gun is totally legal outside of game / migratory bird season "up here" in Canada, eh? Works good for rats at the dump... kinda miss that now here in Alberta... :huh:

 

Dolleytrolley - I respectfully disagree that Canada has "far more Draconian regulations for anything that moves....". Our friend who drives truck all over Canada and USA says we don't even come close in regulation dept...

 

I agree you must have plenty o'regs otherwise. The sheer volume of posts in this forum around "CDL's" and "registerering my private truck in this state or that state" and "removing an axle so I'm not commercial" and "installing pi$$ pots so now a truck becomes a motorhome" and "my pickup is over 10,000lbs GVWR so now it is commercial" and on and on is nothing short of amazing in what seems to be mostly a free and reasonable nation when we visit :) . (Edit) I forgot to add: discussion around all this "commercial or not" is actually discouraging us from using a heavy duty truck to tow outside of Canada. I just don't need the attention when visiting another country.

 

 

I think what makes us look "regulated" is we so are not regulated we feel the need to run and holler on the interweb and carry on when we actally bump into a regulation :)

 

I went into our regulator of vehicles office and inquired about registering a class 8 as RV puller. "A class what?" she asked. "Class 8..big truck...a Kenworth probly..." I said so all around could hear. "Oh. That 'class' stuff is US regs of some sort. Doesn't apply here. What are you using the truck for?" "Towing a RV 5th wheel connected trailer." "Oh, then it is a private truck. You cannot use it for commerce if it is private." "Any weight regs or etc.?" "No. DOT enforcement can check your weight vs equipment and tires just like your vehicles you drive now so you want to know the axle weights and stay within them, and you must have an air brake endorsement if the truck has air brakes." "Oh,... how much to register?" "$78.00 and you must bring valid insurance certificate as usual."

 

A nosy Canadian in line says, "You can get that air brake course in town here for $250.00... I took mine for my motorhome..."

 

Drive on ( ... knowing how your brakes work...)

 

My popcorn is ready...

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Personally, wouldn't lock it as I've found it fascinating.

 

Due to Dolleytrolley's last post I'm having a bit of a Conversion on the road to Damascus.

 

I think he's right.

 

Our insurance costs reflect our accident rate which is obviously very low and seems to stay that way independent of training or lack thereof.

 

Why might that be?

 

Including Class As in this, we drive big shiny objects that cost a lot and that we take pride in.

 

We're (mostly) older, have lots of driving experience in something or other.

 

We're careful.

 

We don't usually drive in high risk environments i.e. Ice and snow, downtown New York on Friday afternoon and the list goes on.

 

We drive very few miles per year.

 

So you can read directly from your insurance cost that the current state of licensing and driver training is just peachy.

 

Of course more training would be nice but there's no obvious reason to make it mandatory.

 

Geo

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So taking that one stage further and again including big Class As, there probably isn't too much risk in treating our rigs like a pickup.

 

If something feels or sounds wrong and you're not very mechanically inclined, take it to the shop.

 

Take it to the shop anyway every six months and get them to give it a good check over while your getting the lube and oil change done.

 

Have a walk around frequently and make sure nothing looks wrong.

 

And check those trailer tires relentlessly as we know that is the primary source of potential grief.

 

Geo

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Canada is kinda variable depending where you are.

 

Ontario is a bit more like the US for good reason. Huge number of recent immigrants bringing their home driving culture with them causes a lot of challenges.

 

It's also a "4 of 7" jurisdiction for registering as a motor home.

 

Alberta is free market Wild West by comparison with a generally very high standard of driving.

 

BC has some unfortunate comparisons with California including a very hard time getting the government out of your face. Including the monopoly vehicle insurance business.

 

So there isn't just one rule even in Canada, but I agree regulation is generally lighter here.

 

If you want a preview of our unpleasant future, have a look at the transport industry in Europe. Particularly electronic tachographs that typically get checked twice a week or more by enforcement.

 

Big brother lives just down the road and some in regulatory roles are just itching to invite him to the party. Lol

 

Geo

 

 

What Roger said ^ been there done that. Oh by the way uncorking the magazine on the pump gun is totally legal outside of game / migratory bird season "up here" in Canada, eh? Works good for rats at the dump... kinda miss that now here in Alberta... :huh:

 

Dolleytrolley - I respectfully disagree that Canada has "far more Draconian regulations for anything that moves....". Our friend who drives truck all over Canada and USA says we don't even come close in regulation dept...

 

I agree you must have plenty o'regs otherwise. The sheer volume of posts in this forum around "CDL's" and "registerering my private truck in this state or that state" and "removing an axle so I'm not commercial" and "installing pi$$ pots so now a truck becomes a motorhome" and "my pickup is over 10,000lbs GVWR so now it is commercial" and on and on is nothing short of amazing in what seems to be mostly a free and reasonable nation when we visit :) . (Edit) I forgot to add: discussion around all this "commercial or not" is actually discouraging us from using a heavy duty truck to tow outside of Canada. I just don't need the attention when visiting another country.

 

 

I think what makes us look "regulated" is we so are not regulated we feel the need to run and holler on the interweb and carry on when we actally bump into a regulation :)

 

I went into our regulator of vehicles office and inquired about registering a class 8 as RV puller. "A class what?" she asked. "Class 8..big truck...a Kenworth probly..." I said so all around could hear. "Oh. That 'class' stuff is US regs of some sort. Doesn't apply here. What are you using the truck for?" "Towing a RV 5th wheel connected trailer." "Oh, then it is a private truck. You cannot use it for commerce if it is private." "Any weight regs or etc.?" "No. DOT enforcement can check your weight vs equipment and tires just like your vehicles you drive now so you want to know the axle weights and stay within them, and you must have an air brake endorsement if the truck has air brakes." "Oh,... how much to register?" "$78.00 and you must bring valid insurance certificate as usual."

 

A nosy Canadian in line says, "You can get that air brake course in town here for $250.00... I took mine for my motorhome..."

 

Drive on ( ... knowing how your brakes work...)

 

My popcorn is ready...

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George,

 

I had actually talked to Steve Dixon before the National Rally about gathering some data via an anonymous questionnaire about whether the attendees had been involved in an accident in their HDT, who was at fault, any injuries or fatalities, miles driven per year, etc. Thought it might be an interesting exercise but just didn't get it done.

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Great idea!

 

I bet it's a very small number.

 

It would be very interesting to get miles per year with a decent sample size. Maybe at next years rally, or maybe just an anonymous online questionnaire?

 

Geo

 

George,

 

I had actually talked to Steve Dixon before the National Rally about gathering some data via an anonymous questionnaire about whether the attendees had been involved in an accident in their HDT, who was at fault, any injuries or fatalities, miles driven per year, etc. Thought it might be an interesting exercise but just didn't get it done.

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I just spent typing up an response but dumped it again.

 

To sum it up, my main concern is liability costs if an accident were to happen. My insurer bumped my liability up to 5m from 2m.

 

There are insurance firms specializing in big rig accidents. They must do it for a reason. Tuff to deal with a grieving family member when the rest of the family has been wiped out. Or a soccer mom with a van load of kids turned into a flaming fireball when T boned by a Tractor whether it was his fault or not.

 

One question I ask when approaching a stale green is, can I stop, yes, can I stop, yes, can I stop, no. Then go. The course taught me a lot.

 

Mine is having some non related work done and Chris has been asked to set me up on a regular maintenance schedule. All the work done by Berkes in Alberni and BMT here will be noted. Fluids will be checked and or replaced if needed by either time or distance.

I see what others do and use that to my advantage, ie Jack and the frequency and items on his checks.

A couple of years ago or so he referred to the frequency of intransit checks being every 2 hrs. Initially I thought that was over the top but that is the way we are taught in BC on the CDL course.

 

Honestly, I'm not comfortable driving my rig without doing a pretrip. It's like not having my seatbelt on or not wearing my hardhat on a commercial project.

I have also started doing as another member said and that is to do some elements of the pretrip in advance. No sense leaving it to the morning you leave in the dark, mud and rain getting filthy in the process.

It would bode well for this group to put something together on an unofficial level. Perhaps using Govt recourses if they were available. I have no problem in going to Sam and his boss asking for their input. We are in a position to educate them about the differences, ie, offtrack, turning radiuses or radii, backing up and pivot points.

 

Sam was fascinated by the Jackalope.

 

OK, I'm off my soapbox and back into the lightly salted chips, sour cream and garlic & bacon dip. My chores are done... There has to be a ballgame on.

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