Pre Trip Check List

[G&K]

We all tend to focus on our own concerns/specialities.

 

What percentage of the vast horde of commercial vehicles on the road run TPMS?

 

I was paranoid about pressures in the fiver, and checked temps about once per hour, but drives on the truck got thumped every time and their temps checked, but probably didn't have a real gauge on them more than once or twice a year.

 

Not saying you're wrong about TPMS being good.

 

Geo

[Big5er]

What percentage of the vast horde of commercial vehicles on the road run TPMS?

George, my experience says "very few". Very few actually check their tires by anything other than a "visual" check in my experience also. That is why I thump every tire on every truck I stop. It is amazing how many under inflated tires I find.

 

Unless you are running at 100% more pressure than needed to support the actual load you are admitting to running tires under-inflated. HUH?

Your choice but i trust you will never complain about a tire failure. I complain about every tire failure, that is why I run a TPMS. I never said I didn't. I said I thump 100+ tires a day. You ASSUMED that I was referring to my own.

 

Also have to wonder how people "thump" tires as they run down the road, you knkow the 98% of the time when you get a puncture, cut or the valve works loose and develops a leak. Just never heard of a tire getting punctures while parked or a valve failing when not moving.

As George mentioned, how many commercial vehicles use a TPMS? Every puncture, cut or leak does not result in an instant tire failure either. There are many commercial vehicles running under inflated tires and all under inflated tires do not have an easily identifiable leak. That is why checking tires on a commercial vehicle is part of their required pre trip inspection, and unlike personal vehicles, it is illegal for a commercial tire to have less than 50% of it's max tire pressure.

[sclord2002]

Tireman, could you clarify your post about running 100% MORE pressure than is required to carry the load. That,to me, is saying that if the pressure required to carry the load is 100 psi, then 100% MORE is 200 psi and anything under that is underinflated. I suspect you didn't mean to put the "more" in that statement . I am concerned that someone may actually do that and cause a tire to explode. I have never heard any advise to exceed the max inflation rating by more than 10%. Just testing for understanding. Thanks, Charlie

[G&K]

I don't agree with Phil all that often, but if you whack a tire with something fairly solid, an inflated tire will give you kind of a 'boing' when you hit it. It feels alive.

 

On the other hand you get a dull 'thump' from an under-inflated tire.

 

I was happy enough doing that on the drivers. The steers on a 780 are always borderline for load carrying, and you have to be sight-impaired not to catch a low tire. It really is obvious if one is low on pressure.

 

The trailer was the big deal. We are running at about 4,000 lbs of the total 4,800 lb capacity on each of the tires, and they don't really look all that under-inflated even if they are.

 

So every morning on a road trip it was a slide under the slides to see that we were at least 115 psi on a 125 psi capacity tire. No ifs, ands or buts on that one. The consequences of shredding a tire were very bad, so check and verify.

 

My best friend on a road trip was the infrared heat pistol. Point the laser at the spot you wanted to measure and there you were. Allow for the sun warming one side and look for anomalies. Stop every hour or so to see if anything weird was happening.

 

Its not as good as a TPMS, but its cheap, responsible and yields pretty good results.

 

Geo

[Tireman9]

I don't agree with Phil all that often, but if you whack a tire with something fairly solid, an inflated tire will give you kind of a 'boing' when you hit it. It feels alive.

 

On the other hand you get a dull 'thump' from an under-inflated tire.

 

I was happy enough doing that on the drivers. The steers on a 780 are always borderline for load carrying, and you have to be sight-impaired not to catch a low tire. It really is obvious if one is low on pressure.

 

The trailer was the big deal. We are running at about 4,000 lbs of the total 4,800 lb capacity on each of the tires, and they don't really look all that under-inflated even if they are.

 

So every morning on a road trip it was a slide under the slides to see that we were at least 115 psi on a 125 psi capacity tire. No ifs, ands or buts on that one. The consequences of shredding a tire were very bad, so check and verify.

 

My best friend on a road trip was the infrared heat pistol. Point the laser at the spot you wanted to measure and there you were. Allow for the sun warming one side and look for anomalies. Stop every hour or so to see if anything weird was happening.

 

Its not as good as a TPMS, but its cheap, responsible and yields pretty good results.

 

Geo

 

Glad you were actually confirming the tire inflation and not just checking if you were within 25 psi of what was needed.

 

Don't be mislead with the IR gun. Rubber is a good insulator so you will not get an accurate reading of the hotspots.

If you look at the Thermographic pictures in THIS post you will see real time temperatures and note the large variation in less than 1/4" distance.

 

Tires don't fail "on average" but at the hottest spot so your results might be reasonable at giving an average temperatures but that might not be the information you need to prevent early failure.

 

IR guns are good for checking metallic items like brakes & hubs but not so with tires unless you want to drop #19 on the instrument used to get the pictures.

 

 

A tire can loose a lot of air in just a few minutes so if you want to use the tire temperature as a warning I suggest a check every 10 to 20 minutes.

[Dollytrolley]

Glad you were actually confirming the tire inflation and not just checking if you were within 25 psi of what was needed.

 

Don't be mislead with the IR gun. Rubber is a good insulator so you will not get an accurate reading of the hotspots.

If you look at the Thermographic pictures in THIS post you will see real time temperatures and note the large variation in less than 1/4" distance.

 

Tires don't fail "on average" but at the hottest spot so your results might be reasonable at giving an average temperatures but that might not be the information you need to prevent early failure.

 

IR guns are good for checking metallic items like brakes & hubs but not so with tires unless you want to drop #19 on the instrument used to get the pictures.

 

 

A tire can loose a lot of air in just a few minutes so if you want to use the tire temperature as a warning I suggest a check every 10 to 20 minutes.

In my previous life as a "bird boy" we sometimes had to perform certification testing of tire-wheel-brake combos on certain aircraft......various methods of tire pressure and temperature measurements were utilized and often live-IR video was utilized to capture the temps of the tire, wheel, and brake......It was often a pretty ugly movie and sometimes after the movie I would complain that I was not being paid enough......(response......".shut-up, we have a long line of "bird-boys" that will fly for food......)

 

Some of the most exciting "events" were "aborted takeoffs" .........apply a few thousand horsepower up to 160 mph then yank the power back and apply max brake effort and............pray.........as the little red runway-end lights started getting BIGGER FAST........and hopefully you stopped before running out of runway and hopefully the tires and brakes were NOT on fire........

 

Fast forward to today....... Live IR video used to be VERY expensive but in the last few years IR video costs have dropped a lot......

Perhaps some tech-geek-HDT owner might want to try some live IR video of the tires and that would give the passenger something to do..............(full-time-test-engineer-passenger???)

 

Drive on........(keep tire pressures up.......and......temps down........)

[Tireman9]

Well I can tell you that in the "high expense is no object" world of Indy car racing they have tried on-board IR during tire tests but again the problem is that the location of interest and importance is not on the tire surface byt deep inside the structure. Surface temp is much cooler than interior to structure so readings are misleading.

[noteven]

In my custom trailer build binder I see I've noted where I'm going to have TPMS and armored wheel wells complete with no wires, lines, or "systems" anywheres near the tyres.

[rickeieio]

We've had a total of three blow-outs on our trailer. First one was caused by overloading, hot weather, and high speeds. Duh. What did I expect? Just because 5 motorcycles fit in the garage doesn't mean the tires are up to the task, in 100 degree temps. One tire delaminated, and the flying tread took out the valve core on the other. So okay, one tire blew, the other lost air while carrying the whole load.

 

Second time it was coming back from the ECR. No warning, pressures had just been checked an hour before. As I was changing the tire, my bride mentioned that I needed to order those 17.5 tire everyone was talking about...........

[HERO Maker]

 

 

Second time it was coming back from the ECR. No warning, pressures had just been checked an hour before. As I was changing the tire, my bride mentioned that I needed to order those 17.5 tire everyone was talking about...........

Rick - that would make it a double DUH

[noteven]

in rickeieio's defense: a set of 17.5's for the lumbering RV puts a dint in the motorcycle (Fun stuff) budget. Procrastination can be expected.

[rickeieio]

in rickeieio's defense: a set of 17.5's for the lumbering RV puts a dint in the motorcycle (Fun stuff) budget. Procrastination can be expected.

Yes, but it can put a serious dent in the back of my head if I don't obey the Boss when she says to upgrade the tires. Sitting along the interstate with two flats didn't amuse either of us. We've learned a lot since then, mainly from paying attention to the folks on this forum.

 

BTW, when we blew two tires at once, we had one spare. It was in the well under all those bikes. It's still there today. And yes, I do check the air in it occasionally.

[alan0043]

Yes, but it can put a serious dent in the back of my head if I don't obey the Boss when she says to upgrade the tires. Sitting along the interstate with two flats didn't amuse either of us. We've learned a lot since then, mainly from paying attention to the folks on this forum.

 

BTW, when we blew two tires at once, we had one spare. It was in the well under all those bikes. It's still there today. And yes, I do check the air in it occasionally.

 

rickeieio,

 

I can feel your pain on the flat tires. I had two flats coming home from the ECR this year myself. But mind happened one at a time and about 1 hour from one flat to the next flat. I only had one spare. Sitting on the side of the road wondering what am I going to do now. I have upgrade the tires on the trailer to 17.5" wheels and tires. The big reason I upgraded was that the 16" tires where at there top limit for my trailer. The other reason was that they where Goodyear tires. I have never had a good luck with Goodyear. if you can upgrade I would do it for the reason of safety.

 

Best of luck,

Al

[rdickinson]

Any idea of what cause them to blow?

 

Roger

[alan0043]

Any idea of what cause them to blow?

 

Roger

 

Roger,

 

Is the question for rickeieio or myself ? If the question is for me, I have no idea what the cause was. The tires where close to be retired because of becoming 7 years old. There was no weight in the trailer. The trailer was empty. Maybe one reason for the tire failure was the word Goodyear on the side of the tire.

 

Al

[rdickinson]

Al,

Not sure if this is much consolation but I ran my 17.5's over 3k miles this summer. One part was out of Lewiston Idaho Eastbound on brand new very black blacktop late am on a blistering hot day. Road temp was 140f or so. My rig is 22000 lbs. There were no tire issues and I was running at 110 psi which I've since learned was to much air.

 

Roger

[Dollytrolley]

Well I can tell you that in the "high expense is no object" world of Indy car racing they have tried on-board IR during tire tests but again the problem is that the location of interest and importance is not on the tire surface byt deep inside the structure. Surface temp is much cooler than interior to structure so readings are misleading.

 

Indeed the aircraft certification LIVE IR full tire, wheel, hub & brake testing confirmed the interior temps when interior tire sensors were mapped into the temp profiles ..........regarding test costs for aircraft certifications,,,,,,,,the test geeks just talked about how many truck loads gear that they would install ........everyone assumed that hundreds of millions of dollars was..........just another test program.......

 

The real problem was not only tire temps but brakes tend to get pretty toasty at +160 MPH stopping too many tons.........the brakes heat the wheels and the wheels heat the tires and the Live IR video gets ugly fast...........not really a RV type of problem......

 

Drive on..........(keep the tires cool......)

[Pat & Pete]

 

 

 

The real problem was not only tire temps but brakes tend to get pretty toasty at +160 MPH stopping too many tons.........the brakes heat the wheels and the wheels heat the tires and the Live IR video gets ugly fast...........not really a RV type of problem......

 

Drive on..........(keep the tires cool......)

 

I've seen some motor homes flying down the high ways at a much higher speed than I'd be comfortable driving a car . Stopping anything at that rate would heat the brakes pretty quick . But , yeah , over all , not really an RV type problem .

[rickeieio]

Any idea of what cause them to blow?

 

Roger

If the question was directed at me, the first pair blew from being over loaded, as explained in my original post. I have no idea why the second event happened. These were only 3 year old tires.

 

We now have the 17'5 set up and tire monitor system.

[TexasDually]

For the people who make any type of income while traveling it is no longer a private vehicle it is now a commercial vehicle.

 

That is a rather broad statement. It depends. If you are traveling and using your HDT and RV as just your mode of transport, and living accommodations, and you have no advertising on your rig, you are a private vehicle, even though you travel for a living. Using that mode of thought, anyone who drives a car, and uses hotels, but they depend on travel for their living, would be required to have a CDL. No. If you are selling widgets, transport widgets to display and sell at flea markets, and have advertising on your rig, then yes, you would be required to have a DOT# and CDL. It is basically written that if you engage in commerce using your vehicle, then you need a DOT# and CDL. Yes it goes into much greater detail. But to say if you travel for income and that makes you a commercial vehicle, is not true.

[Guest THE TRAILERKING]

I think the whole BIG issue here is not whether or not you need a CDL. It's more of if you want to operate an HDT then you "Should" have the same training and knowledge that is required for anyone that has to have a CDL.

[G&K]

I would stop short of saying "the same" knowledge.

 

You only need about half of the theory course and maybe 85% of the practical.

 

I don't need practice backing Super-Bees for my RV class A.

 

A lot of the theory side covers hours of service, logs etc etc etc.

 

OTOH there is huge value in having things like a seven second following space drummed into your head. Lol.

 

Geo

[G&K]

My point was you don't need to spend the 5K a full commercial course costs if you can find someone to give you the condensed version appropriate to an RV.

 

Geo

[Big5er]

 

That is a rather broad statement. It depends. If you are traveling and using your HDT and RV as just your mode of transport, and living accommodations, and you have no advertising on your rig, you are a private vehicle, even though you travel for a living. Using that mode of thought, anyone who drives a car, and uses hotels, but they depend on travel for their living, would be required to have a CDL.

Texas D, the flaw in your analogy is that "cars" do not fit the definition of a CMV, but yes, you are basically correct.

 

I think the whole BIG issue here is not whether or not you need a CDL. It's more of if you want to operate an HDT then you "Should" have the same training and knowledge that is required for anyone that has to have a CDL.

You are heavy on RV's having the same training as commercial rigs, where do you stand on NHRA racers having a DOT number, log book and following the rest of the required commercial regulations?

 

My point was you don't need to spend the 5K a full commercial course costs if you can find someone to give you the condensed version appropriate to an RV.

 

Geo

EXACTLY!!

[Guest THE TRAILERKING]

 

 

You are heavy on RV's having the same training as commercial rigs, where do you stand on NHRA racers having a DOT number, log book and following the rest of the required commercial regulations?

 

 

I'm not "Heavy on RV's".......I'm implying that any person wanting to operate any HDT type vehicle (large, heavy, and air-brake equipped) should have training and knowledge of what they're operating. Not saying they all should have DOT #'s and fill out log books. There are people that just buy the truck and drive it but have no clue on the safety aspect and what to be watching for prior to lift-off. I can't believe that States don't require a person to carry an "Air Brake" endorsement on their drivers license.