house Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I just moved this over from the MDT form based on recommendation, from what I understand because my truck is power unit and not a motor home i am not exempt, even if i am pulling a camper. Just curious if anyone has any experience traveling through California with older MDTs? I have a 1990 4900 that i use to pull a my wagon trailer(which is a toyhauler) and at first I was under the impression that I was exempt, however after talking to some truckers and reading on ARB website I dont think that I am. The good news is I travel few enough miles that I can qualify for a low use exemption, however the application period is for 1/1 to 1/31 so it has already closed this year. Normally I take 2 trips, one in a couple of days to Ventura, the other I am going to Utah and then to Grass Valley, then back home to southern California. I dont think I am in any danger going to Ventura, however I am worried about coming back into the state, I am debating applying for a 3 day pass for my travel days from Utah so if i get stopped at the border I will be covered, the only problem then becomes I can not plead ignorance if i get stopped at some other point outside of my 3 day pass. any thoughts? Am i worried about nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCooter Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Unfortunately, you are likely to get as many answers as people you talk to. I have heard and read so much conflicting info of the emissions compliance issue. The last one I heard about was as long as you are hooked to your RV, you would be exempt. Dis on next and you would have to comply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 I started a thread that addressed these issues several years ago. I tried to pull it up, but it has apparently dropped off the forum. I received training on this topic and then confirmed specific issues with CARB directly. I will have to go through some old emails when I am back on my computer (currently working off my iPad) and repost them. My recollection is if you are registered as a motorhome you are exempt (I am 100% sure of this) and if your vehicle is primarily used to haul/tow an RV trailer you are exempt (pretty sure of this but not 100% because it was not my situation). When I find the email from CARB, I will repost it (hopefully I still have it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
house Posted August 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 When i spoke to the ARB hotline the other day they told me in no uncertain terms that i was not exempt because it was a personal vehicle towing a travel trailer. I am a bit concerned about this as there is no way for me to comply other than buy a new truck, at least for this year... such a headache for a truck i drive maybe 8 times a year, and is entirely personal. I guess i will let you know if i have issues.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncohauler Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Chad is the man in the know for CA. I can tell you that 6 yrs ago I called CARB about this before I converted to motorhome in CA. And they told me I was exempt if I drove less than 2500 miles a year. They didn't say how they would verify my mileage. They also said I would be required to get a trip permit to go in any other state. Which at the time didn't bother me I stayed with in California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
house Posted August 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 From the ARB website if you drive less than 5000 miles per year (you have to have a certified odometer or install a tamperproof hub meter) you can apply for a low milage exemption, the issue is that you need to apply every year between January 1st and January 31st for the entire year, once the window closes you are not allowed to operate unless you get a 3 day pass that you can only get once per year. At least that is my understanding from speaking to the CARB hotline, I guess even if I am not exempt, which I dont think that I am the lack of responses on this form probably indicates that they don't enforce it for RV's or maybe they just throw you in jail and restrict your computer access Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big5er Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 You may have discovered an issue that MDTs and HDTs registered as a "truck" rather than a "motorhome" may experience. I'd be willing to bet some fulltimers will over run that 5000 mile limit. It'll be interesting to hear back from Chad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp093018 Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 My '95 KW is registered in SD as a non commercial truck, and I used to travel 395 in CA frequently...so I corresponded directly with the CARB folks for a determination of the regs. as they applied to me The thread should be in the HDT section maybe 2 or more years ago....anyway, they sent me an e-mail stating that as long as my non-CARB compliant truck was not disconnected from my trailer, I would not be subject to the CARB regulations....but as soon as I disconnected (say for a quick run to town for fuel), I would be subject to the regs and could be ticketed. Regards Gemstone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCooter Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 I think this is where I saw the towing vehicle was exempt: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/truckstop/tb/motorhome.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 The regulation that CrazyCooter linked to is what I remember from the email I received from CARB. (I haven't had access to my computer to look for the email yet.). Basically, if you are registered as a motorhome you are exempt and if you exclusively use your vehicle to tow a recreational/liveable trailer it is exempt. If you are not registered as a motorhome, as soon as you disconnect from the trailer and drive around you fall under the CARB requirements. You need some other run around vehicle like a Smart to do your driving around after you set up camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Maker Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Print that one out and have it with you if you get pulled over bobtail in Calif. Chad, I would think that if you have a picture with you of your truck hooked up to your fiver, then you might be able to argue this point in that posting; "r a vehicle that exclusively tows a trailer thatwas originally designed for human habitation for recreational or emergencyoccupancy." I would even hang around and fight this based on it being poorly written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncohauler Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Chad I herd the other day that CARB is talking about Making motorhomes follow the same rules as Trucks. Have you herd anything? Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Charlie, I have not heard that. Where did you here it? Bye the way, I have not been able to look for the email I got from CARB because my computer and all other important belongings are packed up right now in case we have to evacuate due to nearby fires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncohauler Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Charlie, I have not heard that. Where did you here it? Bye the way, I have not been able to look for the email I got from CARB because my computer and all other important belongings are packed up right now in case we have to evacuate due to nearby fires. One of my friends who does smog on cars and light duty trucks mentioned it. I seriously hope it's not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve from SoCal Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Chad, How would a POE view a Kansas registered RV truck hauling a flat bed or step deck with personal property? Specifically I am wondering about the possibility of getting a trailer to move my stuff back to California when I come home. The stuff would be lathes, mills and equipment up to and including my 40K forkift. They would be 'toys' at that point, big toy but a diversion not business equipment. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 You might pull it off if you put windows and a door in a drop deck van trailer. I think I would pay the freight bill, rather than risk the fines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve from SoCal Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 You might pull it off if you put windows and a door in a drop deck van trailer. I think I would pay the freight bill, rather than risk the fines. Yea, I am just askin, it would be kinda hard to load a 20' long 15K lathe through a window! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCooter Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Chad, it has the definitions clear as day what a motorhome "IS".....Nowhere does it say vehicle has to be titled as such. What are your thoughts on that? If it has the necessary equipment it "IS" a motorhome right? It also says a "a vehicle that exclusively tows a trailer designed for human habitation" is a motorhome too...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big5er Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Steve, I have said many times, that looks are everything. Not many people can grasp the idea of an individual owning a forklift and a 20ft lathe. You would be very hard pressed to convince "most" people that those are personal and not business machines. Like rickeieio it is a big risk. You "might" beat it in court, but probably not on roadside. It ain't worth the headache. CrazyC, the definition is clear about what a MH needs in order to be a MH. But if you are registered as a truck, even if you have those items, you are not a motorhome, you are a truck. Just because you have the necessary equipment to "be" a motorhome, doesn't make it a motorhome. That is why we all "converted" our truck tractors to either MH's or private trucks. They used to be registered as truck tractors, then we "converted" them and they are registered as what they are NOW. Having the required items makes it what makes it what it is, the registration is what says that it really is what it is (or what somne states will let it be). If the registration says its a truck, its a truck. And the debate has been had about the word "exclusively" many times. The question is whether it means the truck exclusively tows "a trailer designed for human habitation" or whether it "exclusively tows a trailer" designed for human habitation. My issue with that debate is that once you unhitch and start driving it to the store, how can you prove either? You can not. So, the point is sort of moot. To be exempt you must "exclusively tow a trailer designed for human habitation". If you are driving to the store you can not prove what sort of trailer you exclusively tow. And the other side of the coin is if you are driving to the store, you are not exclusively towing a trailer. CITATION either way. Come to Texas. We'll let you be a motorhome and you don't have to tow anything, exclusively or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 If it is a drop deck can trailer how are they going to know what is in there anyway. Paint windows on it. Don't have mayflower painted on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappy Yokum Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Chad, How would a POE view a Kansas registered RV truck hauling a flat bed or step deck with personal property? Specifically I am wondering about the possibility of getting a trailer to move my stuff back to California when I come home. The stuff would be lathes, mills and equipment up to and including my 40K forkift. They would be 'toys' at that point, big toy but a diversion not business equipment. Steve What "Big5er" said in his first paragraph......and - The "most people" you would need to convince/deal with on entering CA would be the CHP - California Highway Patrol. Note: in CA, weigh stations (scales) are operated by the CHP. The "RV Truck" (?) you reference - http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/weigh-stations/stopping.htm Above - "Who Must Stop at Scales" - scroll down to "Do these vehicles have to stop at scales". Maybe the scales are closed, or you breeze by -or- oops, you are chased down. But - - you're towing your unusual, personal "toys" in CA (even in a closed van) with a HDT registered as a MH - or "private truck" - in your home state. (The "RV Truck"). Sure *LOOKS* like a commercial venture of some sort - trying to beat the system! How do you prove there is *no* commercial use of your "supposed" personal workshop equipment to the guy asking the questions? - (Or that you're not delivering them to a buyer, or? etc., etc.). Most CHP officers out "on the road" may not care - more important things to do (maybe). But then there are Chippys that look for unusual "stuff" - like the guy with a MH with MT plates, towing a "toad" with CA plates. He is/was retired - legit registration for MT, wife ("toad" owner) still working in CA. Guy had the guts to ask if they file seperate tax returns, then proceeded to measure the MH to see if it was over 40'. No cite - but a lot of computer time at the side of I-5 up near Sacto. IMO - go with "Plan B" whatever that is. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasFlyer Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Chad, it has the definitions clear as day what a motorhome "IS".....Nowhere does it say vehicle has to be titled as such. What are your thoughts on that? If it has the necessary equipment it "IS" a motorhome right? It also says a "a vehicle that exclusively tows a trailer designed for human habitation" is a motorhome too...... It doesn't matter if you have two toilets and a hot tub installed, your vehicle IS whatever your current registration shows under type, class or whatever your registered state shows to depict the type of vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve from SoCal Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I do understand the "IF it walks like a duck" analogy. I don't think it would be much less expensive to ship my stuff myself, with a single axle truck "RV" I could not load a trailer to the capacity a tandem axle truck could. That alone would add at least one more trip likely two, I could also palletize many smaller things and ship them in a van. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasFlyer Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Or better yet, pick a different state for your destination......lol Most other states you will not have a problem with you hauling YOUR stuff on a Private Truck, as long as you have sufficient documentation showing that you personally own what is being hauled and your registered or permitted weight is in order. It is the Republic of Kalifornia CARB requirements that will be your biggest hurdle. You may have a lot better chance exploring the possibility of a temporary permit, rather than trying to throw the Motorhome flag up or trying to argue that your Private Truck exclusively hauls an RV when you aren't moving your stuff into the state. All in all, as others have said, seems like a lot of red tape to try and overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Dreamer Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 If it is a drop deck can trailer how are they going to know what is in there anyway. Paint windows on it. Don't have mayflower painted on it. Ronbo, A drop deck trailer is a open flat bed with a raised area over the hitch, sometimes called a step deck: I think you are thinking of a drop van (or frame) trailer which is enclosed: A double drop deck trailer looks like this: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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