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Kirk W

Control the Federal Dept?

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4 hours ago, pjstough said:

When constituents start contacting their elected officials and tell them to start cutting the benefits the constituents are receiving, the elected officials may start doing something, however, usually when constituents contact elected officials about reducing the debt or deficit, they usually want the elected officials to cut the benefits someone else is getting and not them.

Human greed has been the downfall of several civilizations and forms of government. No democratic form of government has lasted much over 200 years The U.S.A. has lasted the longest in history_so far, perhaps because it is also a capitalistic society instead of a democratic society.

IMO the answer to reducing/eliminating the national debt is to run the federal government like you andI run our annual living expenses, never spend more than you earn/receive.

Edited by Ray,IN

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10 minutes ago, Ray,IN said:

Human greed has been the downfall of several civilizations and forms of government. No democratic form of government has lasted much over 200 years The U.S.A. has lasted the longest in history_so far, perhaps because it is also a capitalistic society instead of a democratic society.

IMO the answer to reducing/eliminating the national debt is to run the federal government like you andI run our annual living expenses, never spend more than you earn/receive.

I agree on the greed and as the Bible says in 1Timothy 6-10, "For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil".

If no one or the government never borrowed money, we would not have much of an economy at all.

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4 minutes ago, pjstough said:

I agree on the greed and as the Bible says in 1Timothy 6-10, "For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil".

If no one or the government never borrowed money, we would not have much of an economy at all.

I love it.  Not only did Kirk the moderator start a political thread but now it's branched over into religion.  🙂

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I don't think this qualifies as a political thread.  The article doesn't advocate a partisan solution.

As for the debt, it's too late for us to do anything about it.  The solutions available are too painful at this point.  So instead, we will just put off the inevitable as long as we can.  Of course, a large war for national survival might change everything.  I wouldn't exactly call that a 'solution', however.

 

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10 hours ago, chirakawa said:

I love it.  Not only did Kirk the moderator start a political thread but now it's branched over into religion.  🙂

You're being ridiculous .

 

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No, WW II brought us out of the depression and look again, debt is at highest level ever. Ignorant just means that you don't know. Everyone is entitled to there opinion but not their own facts!

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22 minutes ago, whj469 said:

No, WW II brought us out of the depression and look again, debt is at highest level ever. Ignorant just means that you don't know. Everyone is entitled to there opinion but not their own facts!

Here is a pretty respectable website with a simplified explanation of the history of our debt.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_public_debt

In case you didn't want to read it, it pretty well follows the time line of debt for this country, pointing out when debt was highest (generally during wars) and when it was lowest (generally when military spending is lowest).  There's also a graph which illustrates the national debt over the decades.

Here's a couple of quotes where the parts in bold contradict your earlier "facts":

"The history of the United States public debt started with federal government debt incurred during the American Revolutionary War by the first U.S treasurer, Michael Hillegas, after its formation in 1789. The United States has continuously had a fluctuating public debt since then, except for about a year during 1835–1836. To allow comparisons over the years, public debt is often expressed as a ratio to gross domestic product (GDP). Historically, the United States public debt as a share of GDP has increased during wars and recessions, and subsequently declined.

The United States public debt as a percentage of GDP reached its highest level during Harry Truman's first presidential term, during and after World War II."

" The public debt fell rapidly after the end of World War II under the presidency of Harry S. Truman, as the U.S. and the rest of the world experienced a post-war economic expansion. "

 

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2 hours ago, chirakawa said:

To allow comparisons over the years, public debt is often expressed as a ratio to gross domestic product (GDP).

That makes no sense at all.  During times of war, GDP drops dramatically as the private sector shifts to support the war effort.  Exports drop to near nil.  So, of course the debt EXPRESSED AS A RATIO OF GDP will shoot through the roof (even though it hasn't changed AT ALL). 

It equivalent to saying you have, say, $10k of personal debt, but when you take a couple of weeks of unpaid vacation time (your GDP drops), all of a sudden your debt rises to $1M.

That's the problem with statistics - you can make them do whatever you want...

Edited by OregonJim

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10 hours ago, OregonJim said:

That makes no sense at all.  During times of war, GDP drops dramatically as the private sector shifts to support the war effort.  Exports drop to near nil.  So, of course the debt EXPRESSED AS A RATIO OF GDP will shoot through the roof (even though it hasn't changed AT ALL). 

It equivalent to saying you have, say, $10k of personal debt, but when you take a couple of weeks of unpaid vacation time (your GDP drops), all of a sudden your debt rises to $1M.

That's the problem with statistics - you can make them do whatever you want...

You make a good point.  I don't know, I'm not an economist.  I do know that every chart I've ever read about national debt has compared it to gdp.

Here's a history of gdp.  The first four years of WWII, the gdp went up dramatically.  The next three years showed a drop.  It's my understanding that military production is a part of gdp, not separate.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-gdp-by-year-3305543

The problem with this subject is that all we can do is identify the problem.  We all know what that is, our government spends more than it receives.  However, the solutions all involve some degree of political action, either in some form of petition or in choosing who to vote for, etc.................and we can't discuss those here.  Nor should we, this is an RV forum.  Yes, the problem concerns us all, even RV'ers.  But, that applies to any subject, some of which are banned on this forum.

Edited by chirakawa

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I really wonder how many folks who expressed opinions in this topic didn't vote last week.

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I think it a bit presumptive to try to correlate opinions with voting AL. Did you vote?

I also object to religion here be it quotes from a book or a sermon from your religion or belief system. Decent folks don't talk religion or politics in mixed company. It isn't anyone's place in public to question or force their religion down another's throat, it's unamerican. We are free to practice whatever beliefs we have at our places of worship and our homes, and like minded friend's homes. Private schools and universities as well. Just not public. Or in privately owned places like this website that can make it's own rules and we can abide by them, or get the boot.

Are some members too big to fail like the banks and allowed to flout the simple rules here?

And by saying you hoped people would be "big enough" to encompass your political thread, are you trying to say if one disagrees with you that they are smaller than you?

The thread's defenders are already calling those that disagree "ridiculous" as well.

Do as you will in private life, but please quit yer quibbling here on subjects we have already been dinged for for less, and are against the rules here.

From the Escapees forum guidelines:

" Escapees Discussion Forum Basic Rules

Rule #1: Be respectful, no fighting or personal attacks.

Rule #2: Absolutely no discussions regarding religion or politics. Posts that are political or religious in nature will be removed and all participants will be warned."

Source: http://www.rvnetwork.com/guidelines/

Quibble all you want, but political in nature, I think it is, and now religion rears up and in.

So when are the Admins going to remove them or change their rules. Because if no one is getting points or posts removed I'd sure have a lot to say on this topic. So admins can we now talk politics as long as we say it isn't politics here?

I'd like to call out the causes of internal revenue reductions and remove the label "entitlements" from Social Security since we paid into social security and are just getting our money back without interest. So like family it is simple, you don't reduce revenues to get out of debt. Whose businesses are receiving trillions in subsidies and pay no fair share of taxes on our pillaged fossil natural resources that are non- renewable? How much in  taxes are the top 10% paying? Who is voting for what?

But I won't take part in your political thread because I understand the rule that says "Absolutely no discussions regarding religion or politics. Posts that are political or religious in nature will be removed and all participants will be warned."

On a different note I hope the folks missing from the fires get found alive, and how the people there, as devastated in parts of California as Puerto Rico was, can get help in coming back from losing it all.

Happy political with religious quotes thrown in discussions!

AbandonThread.gif

 

 

 

Edited by RV_

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10 hours ago, RV_ said:

I think it a bit presumptive to try to correlate opinions with voting AL. Did you vote?

Yep, I voted.  My wife voted, our son & daughter voted.

About voting.  For those who didn't vote, just remember, since we voted, if you didn't you are stuck with how I voted and you didn't get a say about if we are right or wrong in your opinion.

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5 hours ago, Al F said:

Yep, I voted.  My wife voted, our son & daughter voted.

About voting.  For those who didn't vote, just remember, since we voted, if you didn't you are stuck with how I voted and you didn't get a say about if we are right or wrong 

Al , you should have quit with that^ .

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