Dropped Trailer-Segue

[SuiteSuccess]

Dennis M shared his misfortune about dropping his trailer and rather than hijacking his thread would like to re-open a discussion we had on the forum several years ago for some fresh perspectives.  That subject is locking or not locking your hitch.  One poster on the other thread suggested never padlocking your hitch in case you need to rapidly disengage the trailer for example with a fire.  I used to routinely padlock my ET hitch but now with a redesigned handle and some minor mods (thanks to Georgiahybrid) I place a pin behind the block which acts as a backup to prevent the Binkley head block from disengaging from the jaws.  This pin is essentially a lock and could be removed in only a slightly shorter time than a padlock.  In my particular case my pin box rides UNDER the trailer cap whereas on my previous trailer the pin box stuck out almost a foot in front.  Trailer fires on the road are going to mostly occur either over a wheel well from a blowout or in the front from battery box or generator.  RandyA’s fire was in the front and took less than a minute to consume the front half of his trailer.  In my case (and I’m interested in other’s cases) I would have to go under the front cap that may be on fire, remove the pin, grab my “easy reach hitch handle tools” out of my rear tool box, release the jaws (which sometimes will not release with pressure on them and requires backing up to release that pressure) then climb back into the truck (if wife not moved over) and gun it.  All the while that fire is getting nearer my propane bombs.  I’m just saying FOR ME not a scenario that’s gonna happen, too much time.   I carry extra extinguishers and may try to put out a wheel well fire, but a front trailer fire?  Wife and I are running.  That’s why I pay for insurance.

Again I am in no way trying to be critical of any previous poster but since we all do things differently, especially in emergencies, it should be something we have discussed and thought through before the event happens.  By the way,  I do a walk around and especially check the hitch at each stop, so in my case with the redesigned hitch mechanism, I can tell if someone messed with it and tried to open my hitch, so a padlock is not necessary.

[Hot Rod]

Just say your new thread, which my last comment fits better here.  Copied from what i just posted on the old thread:

I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with the rest of y'all on the padlock.  All of my padlocks at home, office, gates, and all trailer hitches and doors are the same keyed alike master locks, and every vehicle key ring has a padlock key on it, so there is no hunting for keys.  The extra 5 seconds or less it will take me to unlock a padlock worries me far less than the absolute disaster of a trailer coming unhooked while rolling.  But everyone should definitely use the procedure they feel is safest for their own situation.

And I absolutely agree with your insurance comment.  If I don't think I can get the truck unhooked quickly enough, I'm grabbing the wife and walking away to call the insurance agent.  In most cases (an hdt with the hitch way way back is probably an exception) you are going to have to drop the landing gear to be able to get the truck out from under the trailer anyway or else the trailer is just going to land on the bed, and that will take FAR longer than any lock/bolt/pin on the hitch head.  I can certainly see the pin/bolt vs. a padlock, it is still a positive stop that does not allow the hitch to open.

[RandyA]

I just posted this on Dennis M's thread but now think it is more suitable for the one Carl has started.  My apologies to those that read both threads for the duplicate material posting.

Padlocks don't have to be locked.  You can leave the U-hasp open or even leave the key in it for quick removal in an emergency.  Latch or hitch pins like those used on farm tractor implements come as small as 1/4" in diameter and can easily be pulled in an emergency but still give a margin of safety from having a moving hitch latch arm that allows the jaws to open.  As a friend, I am asking why one would be running back to the tractor for a fire extinguisher?  There should be a fire extinguisher in both of the side compartments of your trailer, another near the rear of your truck, and another just inside your front camper door.  All of them locked?  Switch out to coded RV locks for fast opening without fumbling for keys.  Maybe this seems like overkill but after our trailer fire in February, all of these items have been implemented on our rig.  On the topic of fire extinguishers - buy them big and have plenty.  Would you believe we now have five inside the trailer, two in outside compartments, one next to the seat on either side of the Volvo and one in the toolbox on the back?

Several years ago we were behind a PU with a TT that "lost" their trailer.  They did have safety chains and a breakaway switch.  When the tongue came lose from the ball it dropped to the pavement because the safety chains were not crossed to catch the tongue.   The lanyard for the breakaway switch was too long and did not activate.  When the driver felt the jerk of the falling trailer he panicked and hit the vehicle brakes.  Even with trailer brakes still connected and working the thing came crashing into the back of their truck.  The rear crash caused them to lose control of the truck and the whole rig ended up going off the edge of the road, into a ditch and turning over on its side.   We stopped to help.  Fortunately, they were not seriously hurt.  My point is, fivers or TT's don't always come lose immediately if not properly hitched.  Sometimes they wait until you hit the wrong dip or bump out on the highway.  I am a firm believer in always locking the jaws closed, but that can be accomplished with something that is quickly and easily removed by the driver.

[Jack Mayer]

Well, this topic is of some interest to me. Having had a fire inside my rig, it prompted me to start doing the Fire Safety presentation at the National HDT Rally. I've done it every year for a long time. Mainly to make people aware of the topic and make them THINK about things some. I'm not a fire safety expert, but I sure got REAL FOCUSSED on the topic when I saw 3' flames in my living room. That actually happened at the National Rally - back in 2010 or so....If things work out, "The Ricks" will do the presentation this year - they are true fire safety experts. If not, I'll do it again.

One of the things I talk about in the presentation is the very topic above....dropping your trailer if it is on fire.  It may or may not be feasible, even under the best of circumstances. But you need to consider how to do it effectively if it is to be part of your available options. The info above is good, and you should think things through. HOW does your trailer get off your truck fast? Even if you unhitch it, it likely will not just fall off if you pull away. Maybe, maybe not. Mine won't. In my case, I would almost HAVE to lower the jacks on the trailer. How fast can you do that? Are you getting help from your spouse? How long are you going to try to fight the fire/evaluate your circumstances BEFORE you start to unhook. As Randy will tell you, a front trailer fire is going to go up fast. VERY fast in most circumstances. The general rule of thumb is you have about 90 seconds to do something....after that your options are limited or gone. 

In our case, we have "drilled" the disconnect option. We can do it pretty fast once we start. But how long until you start? It is a LOT different if you actually are doing it under duress/stress. We have arrived at the conclusion you have about a 50/50 chance of disconnecting cleanly, on average. That is simply a guess based on our practice. Danielle can get the legs down enough for me to get out in less than a minute, but that is if the "unhook" does not bind. The total process takes at least another minute....so you are at two minutes AFTER you decide to "execute". And that is the best case. It may or may not work. But you have no chance if everything is locked up. Again, MY opinion only. But I'd bet I'm the only one here that has drilled this more than once (well except maybe Randy). 

Believe me (and Randy); if you have a fire it is a powerful motivator. 

[Steve from SoCal]

Reading this confirmed what I have  always though, there really is no practical way to unhitch from an actively burning trailer.    At least one where the fire is towards the hitch area.    I carry two ten pound extinguishers and they may work on a small fire but face it, that is only IF you see it and can get to the flame source.       My hitch is closer to the rear of the sleeper than many and the heat alone would be an issue in short order.    

I do have one point to ponder,  my truck has a 25 gallon water tank.     The water pump is no fire pump but a spray head with 3 GPM may cool the nose of the trailer enough to prevent the truck from burning up?       I think I will ad a 50' hose and spray head to the truck just for good measure.

[Pete Kildow]

The reason's I use a padlock.

(1) Lets me know the latch is not out of place. And being I always look to make sure the jaws are around the kingpin. Along with in the right spot on the kingpin. That tells me its hooked up right. After driving OTR for 125,000 miles a year for a lot of years. Dropping and hooking thousands of trailers. Only had one log trailer that was almost dropped. Caught it on the frame,and was able to keep it up. Jaws broke on that 5th wheel.

(2) These days way to many people will walk by. Pull the latch to have something to laugh about. That or they hate you for having something nice. That you worked hard to own. While they will not work to own anything. But still hate people because they work to own stuff.

(3) If and I mean if mine catches on fire. Sorry unless its in the back of the camper. I'm not going to try to unhook. Our Hydraulic jacks, might work. But if theirs fire up there. They can crash down when the lines burst also.

(4) We can replace the truck and RV. We can't replace Our Self. And My wife is worth more to me than anything we have. Sure not going to allow her close if its on fire.

 

I also have ever Master lock I own keyed the same. And theres always a key in my Pocket to a lock.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

To add another opinion here, I don't use a lock but do use 2 hitch pins from a tractor as safeties in addition to the locking pin on the hitch. If a fire is in the front of the trailer, you DO NOT want to engage the hydraulics as you might have a melted high pressure line in the flames. Putting fuel into a fire under pressure will really ruin your day.

I pay insurance to cover those situations as, like Carl, I will have to get under the trailer nose to disconnect the safeties and I have never seen a trailer that was worth my life. Get the wife and dogs out and at a safe distance and wait for the fire department to arrive

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

An opinion on this....

Not all hitches are in the same location.  Mine, for example, is just aft of the rear axle and cannot be reached from the rear or side without climbing onto the truck bed.  It cannot be unlocked from the side with the proper tools- an extension handle that fits over the locking block handle, and a "Pin Puller" that grabs the pin and pulls it while moving the extension handle.  

Only someone with 5ft arms or that is skinny enough to fit between the 5th'er overhang and the truck bed can reach it.  

Several years ago, this whole hitch lock thing came up and one of our Canadian friends (Ralph?) mentioned that if you put pressure against the hitch jaws on a Binkley style head that has a locking block, the handle cannot be moved to unblock the jaws.  I tested this theory and it holds true for MY hitch.  In a truck stop type setting- WalMart- etc, before I pull the knob to set the truck brakes I lock the trailer brakes and roll forward enough to put pressure on the pin and hitch jaws.

As for a fire, if I knew I had time to lower the landing gear and drop the RV I would.  But if not, that is what insurance is for.

[runaway parents]

To lock or not to lock that is the question ? I want to make sure that people know I am not trying to ster up a hornets nest. Hopefully I did not  offend any body. There is a lot of good points out there. Sure makes for a interesting discussion . Might be something to think about when truck beds are being built can I jettison  the trailer ? Maybe a redesign of hitches with safety locking mechanism ? Well there is a lot to think about. More fire extinguishers is a must. (side note don't forget to have them inspected nothing worse than needing it and it don't work also learn how to use them.)

[SuiteSuccess]

1 hour ago, runaway parents said:

To lock or not to lock that is the question ? I want to make sure that people know I am not trying to ster up a hornets nest. Hopefully I did not  offend any body. There is a lot of good points out there. Sure makes for a interesting discussion . Might be something to think about when truck beds are being built can I jettison  the trailer ? Maybe a redesign of hitches with safety locking mechanism ? Well there is a lot to think about. More fire extinguishers is a must. (side note don't forget to have them inspected nothing worse than needing it and it don't work also learn how to use them.)

Absolutely no offense. That’s why I opened a second thread. I hope you weren’t offended. These questions come up every few years and as more people new to this lifestyle join the forum, the questions need to be brought forward for discussion and new perspectives. 

[runaway parents]

24 minutes ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Absolutely no offense. That’s why I opened a second thread. I hope you weren’t offended. These questions come up every few years and as more people new to this lifestyle join the forum, the questions need to be brought forward for discussion and new perspectives. 

Absolutely not offended at all it is great to hear all the input in regards to safety of our  very expensive hobby.

[jenandjon]

I lock mine much for the same reason Pete does. I don't need some jerk walking by and pulling my pin. I inspect every time I stop but the one time I get in a hurry and don't that will be when it happens. When I was long haul I tug tested every single time I left a truck stop.

If the camper catches on fire the key is in the door pocket of the truck. It don't take any longer to pop the lock than unhook a keeper pin.

We had a truck catch fire on the farm. I can tell you once the tires catch on fire your extinguisher is useless. All we could do is sit and watch it burn until the fire department get there.

[Pete Kildow]

Threads like this, makes everyone think. And that is a good thing. As we will not give though to most of this stuff.

Wonder if we could not mount a Fireboy CG2 Marine Fire Extinguisher. One mounted up front. Where most Generators, and hydraulic jack fluid is. Would stop any fire in that compartment. But these days, electrical is in other spots. So don't think it would work.

 

 

Fireboy CG2 marine fire extinguisher

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

Not having any numbers to be absolute about this, but I would guess that most RV fires are from 1 of 2  areas when moving-

Either the fridge or the tires/braking.  It has been recommended for several years to have an automatic extinguisher mounted in the fridge compartment of any of the ammonia absorption style fridges.  

When parked, anything can happen from an electric fireplace overheating, traditional kitchen fire, furnace, etc.

[noteven]

Unless you are 8 ft tall you can’t unlock my 5th wheel from beside the truck. Have to open a compartment, climb on the deck, have two hands...But I check it anyway every time I stop and leave the vehicle unattended. 

Moved a if on fire when moving Idea from the other thread:

On certain commercial fifth wheels you can open the wheel with a dash controlled switch. 

Notice smoke billowing?  Assess surroundings for collateral damage/suitable placement,  slow to VJT1* or less,   open fifth wheel jaws, yard on trailer brake control... and first stage jettisoned! 

Stop truck, grab fire extinguishers, discharge toward fire, throw them in fire, run away. 

*Velocity for Jettison Trailer - 

Joking aside what are the leading causes of rv fires in motion? Any stats?

[RandyA]

No one plans on a fire starting in an RV, at least I hope not.  In 40+ years of traveling hundreds of thousand miles with a TT or fiver I have never encountered a trailer that actually had a tire catch on fire (open flames) from a blow out or running flat.  I have seen lots of smoke and melted casings but open flames - no.  Perhaps others have different experiences to share? 

Running propane powered refrigerators on gas while moving is not uncommon.  I've done it but have never been comfortable doing so.  I now run the 120-volt electric heating element in our fridge from a dedicated 2,000 watt "truck stop" inverter while moving.  The fridge automatically switches to gas when I turn off the inverter during a long stop - that is if I remember to turn on the tank valves and turn them off when we start moving again.

Of greater concern to me is the trailer's 12-volt electrical system.  FLA batteries can deliver enough current to weld.  If shorted to ground any part of the system can start a fire.  A moving trailer can easily cause hot wires to rub against metal parts that eventually wear through insulation.  Fuses?  Circuit Breakers?  Not always fast enough or at the proper current level - often missing.  The safest procedure for a moving fiver is to have a battery switch to disconnect all but the emergency braking and deemed necessary circuits such as the inverter and a 12V properly fused wire to the fridge eyebrow and controller board if you do what I mentioned above.  I wonder how many of us do that?

Propane?  New OPD tanks and hoses have flow control valves.  Cut a hose and the immediate high flow will shut the tank off.  The danger stems from a small propane leak like a stove burner left on or a slow leaking pipe.  The "smell test" should be on our checklist.   Ethyl mercaptan is now added to propane to give a distinct smell from a leak - you can't miss it if you have a working nose.  ALWAYS turn off your propane tanks when moving.  If you are like us and use electricity for heating water, running the refrigerator, keeping warm and cooking have the propane tanks off when hooked up. It takes a tremendously hot fire to cause a propane tank to explode - by then you should be miles away.

Any fire must have an ignition source.  Eliminate every possible ignition source while moving - electrical and friction are the primary sources.  A fire also needs fuel.  The most dangerous is our LPG system.  Simply turning off LPG and major battery electrical circuits will reduce chances of a fire while in motion by exponential percentages. 

The fire in our trailer last February was a result of my indifference - or - "It won't happen to me" attitude "because it never has before".  My epiphany was "there is always a first time no matter what the past". I may be an old learner but I do my best to never make the same mistake twice.  I've really stepped up my fire safety game even if it has caused some inconvenience and additional expense.  An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.  My advice?  Worry more about eliminating the source of many fires while traveling than a padlock.  Not to say forget the lock or how to drop a burning trailer, but reduce the chances of finding yourself in that situation.

[rpsinc]

23 hours ago, Jack Mayer said:

AFTER you decide to "execute"

All of us have different ways that we react to a stressful situation.  Jack's point is one to consider very honestly with ourselves.  Some may be able to react quickly and with clear minds, but others can be the opposite and best stand back and let those trained do their jobs.  Which one am I?