Wells Fargo Bank closing accounts!

[Aldee]

Read on FaceBook this morning that Wells Fargo Bank in South Dakota is closing accounts of people who have PMB ONLY (no physical address).  Called our bank in Rapid City (Black Hills Federal Credit Union) to get the "scoop". Here is what we were told:

(1) Banks and Credit Unions work under different rules and laws;

(2) Wells Fargo and Bank of America have been working on this "project" for months;

(3) If you have ONLY a PMB (no physical address) in at least South Dakota (maybe nationwide) Wells Fargo and maybe Bank of America will be closing your bank accounts.  Their reason is the Patriot Act;

(4) Remember #1 above;

(5) With at least Black Hills Federal Credit Union - if you are currently out of the area and don't want to or can not return until Spring to physically open an account with them, they have a charity (didn't ask which one) which you can donate as little as $5.00 to and for ONE TIME ONLY you'll be able to open an account with them and not be physically in South Dakota to do so.  If you want to or need to do this their phone number is: (605)718-1818.

[Kirk W]

That is what happens if you believe everything that you read on Facebook! The rules apply to all financial institutions of any type that accept deposits.

Quote

The USA Patriot Act requires credit unions and other all financial institutions to establish and maintain documentation of a Customer Identification Program (CIP).

National Credit Union Administration  

USA PATRIOT Act Section 326

[rpsinc]

I dont quite understand how any financial institution can at THEIR discretion take possession of depositers funds.

Can someone enlighten me?

 

[Kirk W]

12 minutes ago, rpsinc said:

Can someone enlighten me?

As far as I know, they can't but they can return your money and close your account.

[rpsinc]

12 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

As far as I know, they can't but they can return your money and close your account.

That makes better sense but it certainly has struck a chord of percieved control by others over my money.  I should check on what I am seeing lately of using your accounts so that SOME activity is shown on accounts that, at least I consider, to be my raining day money.

[Kirk W]

10 minutes ago, rpsinc said:

I should check on what I am seeing lately of using your accounts so that SOME activity is shown on accounts that, at least I consider, to be my raining day money.

All financial institutions are regulated by state laws on such issues and exactly how it works varies by state but, in most states it takes at least 3 years and many 3 years of no activity at all for an account to be considered abandoned. When that happens they are also required to make efforts to contact you and once all such items are met, the funds are turned over to a state agency that manages them and holds them indefinitely. In Texas it is the Texas Department of Banking that administers those regulations. This comes from that link:

Quote

Question: How does an account become "presumed abandoned", and what happens to abandoned accounts?
Answer: Accounts identified by banks as "presumed abandoned" are subject to escheat (be remitted) to the state. Under section 73.101 of the Texas Property Code, an account is classified as abandoned when: (1) it has been inactive (without any depositor-initiated activity) for at least three years, (2) the bank is unable to identify the location of the depositor, and (3) the amount of the account or the contents of the box have not been delivered to the comptroller in accordance with Ch. 74. An account is not considered abandoned if the depositor has another account at the bank that is in "active" status.

In the event that some funds should be lost in that way, the easiest way to find that money is by visiting the Texas Unclaimed Property website. 

[Ray,IN]

Thanks for being the voice of reasoning Kirk.

[sandsys]

18 hours ago, rpsinc said:

That makes better sense but it certainly has struck a chord of percieved control by others over my money.  I should check on what I am seeing lately of using your accounts so that SOME activity is shown on accounts that, at least I consider, to be my raining day money.

I would think making occasional deposits would be enough to keep an account active. But, that has nothing to do with the original concern about your address being a PMB. Some are misinterpreting what they are required to do about that which, in turn, provides scares that may have no basis in reality.

Linda

Edited December 9, 2023 by sandsys

[Kirk W]

6 hours ago, sandsys said:

I would think making occasional deposits would be enough to keep an account active.

If you read what I posted, any activity does that. Even going in to check the balance will do so. 

[sandsys]

2 hours ago, Kirk W said:

If you read what I posted, any activity does that. Even going in to check the balance will do so. 

But, deposits can be done remotely and easily nowadays. Unless you meant going online to check the balance.

Linda

[Kirk W]

10 hours ago, sandsys said:

But, deposits can be done remotely and easily nowadays. Unless you meant going online to check the balance.

From Investopedia:

In finance and investments, account activity refers to the transactions made by a client in a particular brokerage or bank account. Bill payments, cash withdrawals, and wire transfers are examples of account activities.

Notice that nowhere in that definition does it require a physical presence in the bank or financial institution. Some banks only do business online so it is impossible to physically enter the bank. It really isn't difficult. If you read the information, all that really needs to be done is to be sure that all of your banks and financial institutions have your current address and phone number since they will reach out to the customer if an account becomes inactive. The problem you warn of does not exist. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Kirk W
Add information.

[Second Chance]

22 hours ago, sandsys said:

I would think making occasional deposits would be enough to keep an account active. But, that has nothing to do with the original concern about your address being a PMB. Some are misinterpreting what they are required to do about that which, in turn, provides scares that may have no basis in reality.

Linda

I agree, Linda. This topic came up some time back - I believe regarding one of the big investment outfits closing customers' account because of the PMB thing. It's all about interpretation of the Patriot Act. One person in the thread stated that they would not want their money with an institution that didn't know how to interpret and apply the Patriot Act, anyway. They pretty much expressed my feelings on the subject, too. We have made one exception: Capital One 360 is a good bank to use for a credit card and debit card for international travel. Laura opened an account in her name using her domicile address at the kids' house in Maryland (we're domiciled in different states) because Capital One didn't like my Escapees address. The rest of our regular banking is with USAA... and they're obviously used to people being "all over the map" (literally!).

Rob

[sandsys]

1 hour ago, Second Chance said:

The rest of our regular banking is with USAA... and they're obviously used to people being "all over the map" (literally!).

We used our USAA card to do ATM cash withdrawals in Europe but that was many years ago so things may have changed.

Linda

[Second Chance]

1 minute ago, sandsys said:

We used our USAA card to do ATM cash withdrawals in Europe but that was many years ago so things may have changed.

Linda

It's still possible to do that with USAA. The Capital One 360 cards have no foreign transaction or withdrawal fees, so for longer trips like our stay in Ecuador in 2022 it saves us some money. We still carry the USAA cards with us for backup. We'll do the same for Italy next spring.

Rob

[Kirk W]

4 hours ago, Second Chance said:

It's all about interpretation of the Patriot Act.

I doubt it is so much interpretation of the act as it is being willing to go farther into it and then do the alternative. I highly doubt that most banks even have an employee that has read section 326 the act and the supplemental regulation from the treasury department that it required. The problem is that the physical address is the easiest way to meet those regulations and most banks and credit unions have very little need for the extra records that are needed if they accept an alternative address as the treasury department regulation allows. If you are interested, this is a copy of the US Treasury Dept. regulation for section 326, and the identification regulation begins on page 9 and continues for 5 pages. 

If you were to do business with any bank or investment company in Livingston TX you might be surprised just how easily the requirements can be met if the institution has an employee familiar with the requirements and they have a provision for doing so. It really doesn't help a lot that most of what is shared with others is more opinion than knowledge and it's not easy to find the actual answers. Like so many other issues that impact fulltime RVers, we are so small a portion of the US citizenry that little or no real effort is made to accomodate us outside of a few locations where we congregate and none at all at the federal level. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Kirk W

[bja1234]

Contact Escapees Legal Staff.  They have a solution.

[Kirk W]

It might be of interest to note that the author of the opening post has not been back to see what suggestions have been.

Aldee

Validated Members

Joined May 7, 2005

Last visited Friday at 02:07 PM

[Joyous]

WF just closed our savings account! When I went in to do a zelle transfer I noticed that my savings account was at 0 dollars and said closed for not updating my physical address. I did. I looked and checked that our mailing PMB and our current physical address was changed cause I remembered doing it, after receiving a letter then talking to customer service about it. 

Same account, but spouse log in was the issue. His account didn't accept the city of our physical location but on my side it did. They closed it. I spoke to several customer service and they said nothing they could do but open a new account. I was pissed. It's a joint account, just override the computer and put the address in.  nope! So we are moving banks in a hurry, checking is due to close any moment. There's a regions bank in the town we are currently staying (travel in rv for work for the last 10yrs) WF for 12 yrs. We will be opening an account today. 

[ScottsOutWest]

On 1/23/2024 at 1:11 PM, Joyous said:

WF just closed our savings account! When I went in to do a zelle transfer I noticed that my savings account was at 0 dollars and said closed for not updating my physical address. I did. I looked and checked that our mailing PMB and our current physical address was changed cause I remembered doing it, after receiving a letter then talking to customer service about it. 

Same account, but spouse log in was the issue. His account didn't accept the city of our physical location but on my side it did. They closed it. I spoke to several customer service and they said nothing they could do but open a new account. I was pissed. It's a joint account, just override the computer and put the address in.  nope! So we are moving banks in a hurry, checking is due to close any moment. There's a regions bank in the town we are currently staying (travel in rv for work for the last 10yrs) WF for 12 yrs. We will be opening an account today. 

Just happened to me!  I've been with Wells Fargo for 27 years.  I've had multiple mortgages, loans, business, savings, checking and retirement accounts with them.  Went to use my card today and boom, all accounts closed. Yes, Im a fulltime RVer (5 years), and I understand the Patriot Act, but I've been a member in good standing for almost 3 decades!  I would think this would have deserved a phone call, at the very least.  

I will NEVER bank with them again and I sure hope this message gets around to others!

[DanZemke]

Seems to be an increasing number of folks having a problem with financial institutions and mail services.  Is it just a spike, or will things get worse?  I have no idea.

I'm protected from this as are many others, but I don't recall anyone pointing out why we won't be hassled.  It's because I'm a member of an Escapees Co-op:  Evergreen in Washington.  

I have a mailing address, similar to someone living in an apartment.  A real contact address that the Post Office won't flag as a mailing forwarding service.  This was an unanticipated benefit for me.

Edited January 27 by DanZemke
clarity

[Kirk W]

USA PATRIOT Act   US Treasury Dept.

Below is a brief, non-comprehensive overview of the sections of the USA PATRIOT Act that may affect financial institutions.

Section 311: Special Measures for Jurisdictions, Financial Institutions, or International Transactions of Primary Money Laundering Concern

Section 312: Special Due Diligence for Correspondent Accounts and Private Banking Accounts

Section 313: Prohibition on U.S. Correspondent Accounts with Foreign Shell Banks

Section 314: Cooperative Efforts to Deter Money Laundering

Section 319(b): Bank Records Related to Anti-Money Laundering Programs

Section 325: Concentration Accounts at Financial Institutions

Section 326: Verification of Identification

Section 351: Amendments Relating to Reporting of Suspicious Activities

Section 352: Anti-Money Laundering Programs

Section 356: Reporting of Suspicious Activities by Securities Brokers and Dealers; Investment Company Study

Section 359: Reporting of Suspicious Activities by Underground Banking Systems

Section 362: Establishment of Highly Secure Network

[Ray,IN]

Didn't this happen about 10 years ago too? No  physical address where you reside =closed accounts.

[kb0zke]

We have an account with Wells Fargo that has some money in it. Don't use it a lot, but do use it some. If they close accounts with no notice, how do we get our money back? Or do they just keep it? Should we just close the account on our own?

[Kirk W]

16 minutes ago, kb0zke said:

Or do they just keep it?

They do not keep your money and federal banking regulations also require that the customer be notified before such action is taken and if there is no response that is satisfactory they then must notify you that your account is being closed. Most also address the way for you to receive your funds. Banks are very much regulated and monitored by the federal reserve.

Edited January 27 by Kirk W

[Chalkie]

2 hours ago, Kirk W said:

They do not keep your money and federal banking regulations also require that the customer be notified before such action is taken and if there is no response that is satisfactory they then must notify you that your account is being closed. Most also address the way for you to receive your funds. Banks are very much regulated and monitored by the federal reserve.

Wells Fargo, however, tends to skirt the law, pushing the envelope until they get caught. 

Wells Fargo Ordered to Pay $3.7B for Array of Violations