I found the word to explain it

[Wrknrvr]

     Yesterday I had another phone call with the customer with the two slides stuck out....

 

    So this customer is a rancher from California.    Very full of energy and really trying to understand what is going on. I can tell he does hands on mechanical stuff. 

 

   But I think he is short on understanding electrical stuff. I really mean he is short on understanding electrical stufffff.   I told him I was there for many years.

 

     So the first thing I did was check the 12 vdc batteries for state of charge.12.6.     Unit is plugged in.   Or so we think it is.  So I say turn the furnace on. Furnace blower comes on the cycles off. Voltage dropped too low for furnace to operate.??? Motorhome is plugged in to shore power.

 

   I have the customer turn on his generator. It starts and runs.     Then the batteries start to charge at the rate they should.   Plug adapter from 30 to 15 amp is inspected. Very small burn spot on the hot leg on adapter.   File it clean, and twist the terminals just a tad. Plug it back in. Batteries are now charging.     Feeling better.

 

     But his two scwintec slides still will not operate.  Customer tried to reset them.  And the 30 amp fuse tested good.

 

One thing the customer did state was his propane detector was beeping every two minutes. So he removed it, and ordered a new one. He had just got it, so he wanted to install it.   Then he mentioned that this problem started after he removed the old detector.????

 

   He asked which wire is ground for the lip detector. Yep he did.......    But I noticed he just put his hand in the opening for propane detector is mounted? And pulled out the two wires. No wire nuts or tape on the bare ends?    So I check how the old one was wire. Found positive and negative on the power wires for the detector.   Wired it in, set it in place, it will not work.

    The customer does not have a volt meter. He said some people do not know how to use them?

 

   I test the fuse for the lip detector, no power on the out going side of the fuse. Go get a replacement fuse from my Jeep. Plug it in and the detector works.        Ccccustomer tries one slide.    And it works.    What the.        Just happened.   How could the fuse for the propane detector fuse stop the slides from working.    I Kept saying since both slides do not work, there has to be something that affects both slides to be the problem.    We did work on the batteries in the beginning, as they affect both slides.

 

    Can you believe it. That fuse supplies two wires.   Yep it does. One for the propane detector, and one apparently for the controllers on the slides????

   This was in a Mercedes class b Motorhome. 2014.

   Very expensive 5 amp fuse.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

      Can you find a very interesting electrical moment in this project.

 

   I did not pick this up until I read the post on line. And it shows a very interesting subject during diagnostics on electrical problems?

 

it is there, just takes some thinking?

Edited November 28, 2023 by Wrknrvr

[dennisvr]

1 hour ago, Wrknrvr said:

      Can you find a very interesting electrical moment in this project.

 

   I did not pick this up until I read the post on line. And it shows a very interesting subject during diagnostics on electrical problems?

 

it is there, just takes some thinking?

" So the first thing I did was check the 12 vdc batteries for state of charge.12.6.     Unit is plugged in.   Or so we think it is.  So I say turn the furnace on. Furnace blower comes on the cycles off. Voltage dropped too low for furnace to operate.??? Motorhome is plugged in to shore power."

Why would the furnace draw down the batteries so much????

[Wrknrvr]

   That is a very question to learn from. By have the furnace fan operating, I could watch the voltage on the batteries, with a volt meter. The voltage dropped low enough, that the furnace would not ignite.

    On that thinking, It did point to either a battery problem, or a charging problem.

   I did solve the charging problem.

But there is a hidden problem that I encountered in this diagnostics situation. I have seen it before. But this time I actually posted about the problem, but did not catch it until I read  my post. (It is a hidden problem, just like when you use parentheses in a sentence).

 

  It is there.    I am doing this to help future diagnostic problems be solved.

[lappir]

watching have not yet found the hidden (Waldo). 

Rod

[Wrknrvr]

I was hoping that Kirk may have figured it out.   Will check in later.  I am trying to finish my skirting under our fifthwheel today.

  Once you ever experienced this situation, you will remember it. And it is hard to give a good explanation of how it can happen, until you see it in person.

[sandsys]

7 hours ago, Wrknrvr said:

Unit is plugged in.   Or so we think it is.

I don't speak electrical but this stood out to me. I have no idea what it means, though.

Linda

[Larry Burkett]

One thing the customer did state was his propane detector was beeping every two minutes. So he removed it, and ordered a new one. He had just got it, so he wanted to install it.   Then he mentioned that this problem started after he removed the old detector.????

Is this it?

[Wrknrvr]

 Close

 

if it was a snake, you need to go to emergency room ASAP 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Wrknrvr

[lenp]

No wire nuts or tape on the bare ends????  Shorted out and blew the fuse?

 

Lenp

[Wrknrvr]

   Let’s say this subject takes thinking glasses?

 

   Not so much seeing glasses?

 

  What the blank is thinking glasses.    It is where you really need to think about what you are seeing.

    So on the subject of the positive wire, the meter told me so.  And, I must state, it said the fuse was good( thinking glasses needed)?    Yes those bare wires where a concern. But the meter said fuse is good?

   In that time period, I did remove the fuse and look at it. It is a 5 amp fuse and it did pass full voltage to the end of the wires. My meter told me so.

   And I looked at that fuse very carefully, I really did look at closely.  There was just one spot that did not look 100 percent normal.    But it would not take much to blow a 5 amp fuse.        

   So I wired the new propane detector in.   And it would not work.    Now I just watched the customer get it out of the package it came in.   Did I wire it backwards. Checked again and it was wired correct.

    What the blank is going on.   I pulled the fuse again. Now it is blown, and it shows.   

 

       So was that spot on the fuse that was looking  just a tad not perfect,  a problem.

    So was the fuse, having a problem passing amperage, not voltage, causing the old propane detector to set the alarm off every two minutes.   The customer has left the area. But would be interesting to test the old propane detector.

    That is when I installed a new 5 amp fuse, and the propane detector started to work.

    And,   Those slides both worked.

 

  I am not a fan of Scwintec slides attttt.  Aaallll. Really irritating to go work on them.

   I never had a idea there is a separate controlling voltage for them. This could be just this rv in particular. Tech documents need to be searched.

       But I would think it may help someone to fix a scwintec for someone.

 

   I hope you learned something from this experience of mine. I also explained it to help be a learning experience .

 

   Thanks for everyone’s input. That shows you how things can be difficult to trace down the real problem.  When you are just looking at it. And really need to be thinking about it.

 

 

    

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Wrknrvr

[Ray,IN]

One safety feature of 12V LP detectors is, it beeps once every 2 minutes, indicating low battery power; just like a smoke detector beeps once every 2 minutes to indicate low battery power.

[lappir]

12 minutes ago, Ray,IN said:

One safety feature of 12V LP detectors is, it beeps once every 2 minutes, indicating low battery power; just like a smoke detector beeps once every 2 minutes to indicate low battery power.

And both  are quite annoying. They also seem to find out they are low on power between 1am and 4am on a Saturday or Sunday night. At least that's what usually happens for me. 

 

Rod

[Ray,IN]

3 minutes ago, lappir said:

And both  are quite annoying. They also seem to find out they are low on power between 1am and 4am on a Saturday or Sunday night. At least that's what usually happens for me. 

 

Rod

Amen!  And it's not like you can put off replacing the battery until after coffee next morning.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Ray,IN

[Wrknrvr]

   So was this lp detector low on power because of the fuse not able to pass amperage?     Or was it the detector bad? Or both?

    The wires did show full voltage when I had a meter on the wires. Unfortunately something like this happens and you fix it.   I wish I had taken a photo of the fuse the first time I looked at it. I did not hear the old lp detector as it was already removed from the project.      Also you are in the middle of trying to figure it out. The customer has to leave.

  So I hope you learned something from this situation i experienced..

 

[Ray,IN]

When a 12V LP detector loses power it is dead/nothing to power any signal. If like you surmised the fuse had enough metal remaining to pass enough power it checked good, it's possible to also pass enough power to trigger the low voltage alarm.

[Kirk W]

10 hours ago, Wrknrvr said:

The wires did show full voltage when I had a meter on the wires.

If you measure the voltage on any open circuit the meter will always read source voltage. Only when current is flowing through a circuit can you measure the amount of voltage that is being dropped across each item in that circuit. A fuse can and sometimes does fail when it has not blown and so must be measured with an ohm meter to know for sure if it is good or bad. If the fuse is good it should measure less than 1 ohm but I have seen them occasionally get up to 5 ohms or more and still appear as good. 

[sandsys]

18 hours ago, lappir said:

And both  are quite annoying. They also seem to find out they are low on power between 1am and 4am on a Saturday or Sunday night. At least that's what usually happens for me. 

A friend solved that by changing the batteries twice a year when the clocks changed. He then put those used batteries in items that wouldn't beep when they died.

Linda

[rickeieio]

20 hours ago, lappir said:

They also seem to find out they are low on power between 1am and 4am on a Saturday or Sunday night.

And if you live in a s/b, and have one smoke detector that requires a ladder in a stairwell, that'll be the one.  That detector has been relocated.

[lappir]

2 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

And if you live in a s/b, and have one smoke detector that requires a ladder in a stairwell, that'll be the one.  That detector has been relocated.

At my Mothers house they put one at the top of the Cathedral Ceiling. Standing on top of a 6 ft. ladder and I couldn't reach it. She called the  "Fire Department" and they came in and changed all of the detectors out for her for free??? 

We have sold that place so no longer have to worry about it. 

Rod

[sandsys]

24 minutes ago, lappir said:

She called the  "Fire Department" and they came in and changed all of the detectors out for her for free??? 

They do that here, too. It's part of their fire prevention program.

Linda

[kb0zke]

Reminds me of something that happened a couple of years ago. The church I was serving as Head Teacher has a light fixture way up in the peak of the ceiling that shines down on the chancel area. It wasn't working properly, so the electricians were there to figure out what was wrong. There is a laser smoke detector in the balcony (in the back) that shines to a reflector in the front. If smoke interferes with that laser beam the fire alarm goes off. The electrician gets the ladder set up (30+ feet of it) and climbs up. When he started reaching for the light fixture he interrupted the laser and set off the fire alarm. To his credit he safely climbed down the ladder!

Yes, we counted it as that month's fire drill.