Frogman Posted August 31, 2023 Report Share Posted August 31, 2023 Hi Folks, I need your advice again. I believe that the brake shoes have rusted to the drums. The truck has been sitting for some time ( over an year ). The truck is still tandem with an I shift transmission. I the rear wheels are free because they are digging into the gravel parking spot. I have tried to move the truck backwards and then forwards. I don't want to do this to much because I don't want to damage the truck. This is a rookie question. Can the other rear axle help move the truck ? If so, how do I do that ? What else do I need to do ? All input is welcomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted August 31, 2023 Report Share Posted August 31, 2023 Lock the power divider, if your truck has one. Gently accelerate. Be prepared for a very loud bang. No power divider? Get out the sledge hammer and wood block. Place the wood inside the rim, on the lip of the drum. Swing. Swing. Swing. Curse. Swing. Swear to use flexible cutting boards next time parking the truck for extended periods. Swing. Try to move. Curse. Quote I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogman Posted August 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2023 41 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said: Lock the power divider, if your truck has one. Gently accelerate. Be prepared for a very loud bang. No power divider? Get out the sledge hammer and wood block. Place the wood inside the rim, on the lip of the drum. Swing. Swing. Swing. Curse. Swing. Swear to use flexible cutting boards next time parking the truck for extended periods. Swing. Try to move. Curse. Thank you for the help. I have a good update. I was able to get the truck to move with the help of a switch on the dash board. I read the truck manual and it says to use only this switch when going straight. I believe the switch locks the left and right wheel together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydrvr Posted August 31, 2023 Report Share Posted August 31, 2023 Also, it helps to use reverse to break them loose, at least in my experience. Gentle rocking is better than being really aggressive. Another good reason to exercise your truck regularly. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddm502001 Posted September 4, 2023 Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 (edited) Power Divider locks front drive shaft to rear, locks out the interaxle differential. Can still spin two alternate sets of wheels one of each axle and be stuck with that, patience and practice will give experience to get out of bad situations. Our old KW has Power Divider and air Lockers for both differentials, separate switches. Make certain the Cams are rotating, Slack Adjusters on the Spring Can axle moving to released direction, if not then have another issue beyond stuck shoes. Edited September 4, 2023 by ddm502001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyA Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 I've encountered this problem more times than I care to count. It does not take a year for the brake shoes to freeze to the drums. It can happen in a much shorter period of time, depending on humidity and weather. My Volvo is singled and does not have a locker. When "at home," I park on a separate "Volvo-only" gravel driveway. So, when the brakes freeze, one generally will break loose easily while the other stays frozen. I dig a DEEP hole in the gravel until the tires finally hit more solid ground, and as Darrel said, you hear a loud bang and all free up on the stuck side. While it is not something you can do just anywhere, I now set the brakes, get out, and chock the rear wheels with 4x6 blocks. Once chocked I release the brakes and shut the truck down. I would never do this on an incline or where some foolhardy being would remove the chocks. They are too big and heavy to carry around with me anyway (four 4x6 pieces, each long enough to cross two tires - front and back of the rear tires - really overkill for what is needed). To make it easier to place them, I have a looped section of rope fastened to each end that I can grab with an extension pole and hook to pull in any direction. Quote Randy, Nancy and Oscar "The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks. ARS - WB4BZX, Electrical Engineer, Master Electrician, D.Ed., Professor Emeritus - Happily Retired! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 That could cause a problem with an auto shift. I did not set brake and shutdown truck. Would not go in gear after that. Had to get it pulled to engage in gear. Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappir Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 Have had my brakes lock up only once and flat spotted the tires trying to break loose. Now if it doesn't move I grab my tiny hammer and go to the offending wheel to lightly tap on the shoe that seems to still be adhered to the drum. It's usually on the trailer and I have to raise it off the ground to get under so there isn't a rolling issue. The only time it happened was in Lawton, OK. I drove into town (many miles) in a pouring rain. Then next day it was ice. I think they may have pretreated the road, but maybe it was just the rain and quick freeze. Didn't try to move till spring. Rod Quote White 2000/2010Volvo VNL 770 with 7' Drom box with opposing doors, JOST slider hitch. 600 HP Cummins Signature 18 Speed three pedal auto shift. 1999 Isuzu VehiCross retired to a sticks and bricks garage. Brought out of storage the summer of 2022 2022 Jeep Wrangler Sport S Two door hard top. 2007 Honda GL 1800 2013 Space Craft Mfg S420 Custom built Toyhauler The Gold Volvo is still running and being emptied in July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray,IN Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 Reverse gear helped move our dump trucks when the shoes stuck to the drums. Reverse braking is not as robust as when driving forward, which allows the shoes to move more. Quote 2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuiteSuccess Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 16 hours ago, RandyA said: I've encountered this problem more times than I care to count. It does not take a year for the brake shoes to freeze to the drums. It can happen in a much shorter period of time, depending on humidity and weather. My Volvo is singled and does not have a locker. When "at home," I park on a separate "Volvo-only" gravel driveway. So, when the brakes freeze, one generally will break loose easily while the other stays frozen. I dig a DEEP hole in the gravel until the tires finally hit more solid ground, and as Darrel said, you hear a loud bang and all free up on the stuck side. While it is not something you can do just anywhere, I now set the brakes, get out, and chock the rear wheels with 4x6 blocks. Once chocked I release the brakes and shut the truck down. I would never do this on an incline or where some foolhardy being would remove the chocks. They are too big and heavy to carry around with me anyway (four 4x6 pieces, each long enough to cross two tires - front and back of the rear tires - really overkill for what is needed). To make it easier to place them, I have a looped section of rope fastened to each end that I can grab with an extension pole and hook to pull in any direction. Randy, Don’t the brakes automatically apply (via springs) when the air pressure bleeds from your tanks? How do you keep that from happening? Quote 2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding" 2017 DRV 39DBRS3 2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty" "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappir Posted September 13, 2023 Report Share Posted September 13, 2023 11 hours ago, SuiteSuccess said: Don’t the brakes automatically apply (via springs) when the air pressure bleeds from your tanks? How do you keep that from happening? Pretty sure that's true, but maybe if they are left long enough open they have a chance to dry well before they are smacked back to the drum. Good question to ask. Rod Quote White 2000/2010Volvo VNL 770 with 7' Drom box with opposing doors, JOST slider hitch. 600 HP Cummins Signature 18 Speed three pedal auto shift. 1999 Isuzu VehiCross retired to a sticks and bricks garage. Brought out of storage the summer of 2022 2022 Jeep Wrangler Sport S Two door hard top. 2007 Honda GL 1800 2013 Space Craft Mfg S420 Custom built Toyhauler The Gold Volvo is still running and being emptied in July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThelazyFarmer Posted September 13, 2023 Report Share Posted September 13, 2023 This happens a lot on our lowboy trailer. Just have to get under there and beat on the drum with a hammer. Not much you can do to prevent it. Quote Farmer, Trucker, Equipment operator, Mechanic Quando omni flunkus moritati-When all else fails, play dead I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted September 13, 2023 Report Share Posted September 13, 2023 1 hour ago, jenandjon said: This happens a lot on our lowboy trailer. Just have to get under there and beat on the drum with a hammer. Not much you can do to prevent it. Dollar store flexible cutting mats, inserted before the shoes make contact with the drums. Guaranteed fix, just a little bit of in and out exercise to install/remove. All the farm equipment gets it, if the equipment is going to sit more than a week. Quote I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpsinc Posted September 14, 2023 Report Share Posted September 14, 2023 On 9/13/2023 at 6:15 AM, Darryl&Rita said: Dollar store flexible cutting mats, inserted before the shoes make contact with the drums. Guaranteed fix, just a little bit of in and out exercise to install/remove. All the farm equipment gets it, if the equipment is going to sit more than a week. Great tip Quote Marcel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted September 14, 2023 Report Share Posted September 14, 2023 I noticed that the drums that were not in the shadow of a trailer or fender tended to rust/stick more. Having a bed on the truck helps. Having a commercial trailer that sits low relative to the tires helps. Parking under a roof really helps. I never tried draping a tarp over the wheels, but would imagine that would also help. Quote KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuiteSuccess Posted September 14, 2023 Report Share Posted September 14, 2023 4 hours ago, rickeieio said: I noticed that the drums that were not in the shadow of a trailer or fender tended to rust/stick more. Having a bed on the truck helps. Having a commercial trailer that sits low relative to the tires helps. Parking under a roof really helps. I never tried draping a tarp over the wheels, but would imagine that would also help. Having a DW that can crawl under the truck really helps, lol. Quote 2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding" 2017 DRV 39DBRS3 2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty" "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappir Posted September 14, 2023 Report Share Posted September 14, 2023 31 minutes ago, SuiteSuccess said: Having a DW that can crawl under the truck really helps, lol. Does your DW know you wrote this? Quote White 2000/2010Volvo VNL 770 with 7' Drom box with opposing doors, JOST slider hitch. 600 HP Cummins Signature 18 Speed three pedal auto shift. 1999 Isuzu VehiCross retired to a sticks and bricks garage. Brought out of storage the summer of 2022 2022 Jeep Wrangler Sport S Two door hard top. 2007 Honda GL 1800 2013 Space Craft Mfg S420 Custom built Toyhauler The Gold Volvo is still running and being emptied in July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted September 14, 2023 Report Share Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) Rest assured, she will......... My wife's probably been under the truck more than I. She's pretty good at taking pictures with her phone, handing it out to me, and asking, "Where do I hit it?" Edited September 14, 2023 by rickeieio Quote KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyA Posted September 15, 2023 Report Share Posted September 15, 2023 Well, live and learn. Not having an auto-shift but a lowly 10-speed, I did not realize the problem with shutting it down without setting the brakes in an auto-shift truck. Now, as far as the spring brakes setting when air pressure bleeds down, my air system will NOT bleed down on its own for days. It is pretty darn tight pneumatically, thanks to my Whisper. In fact, deflating the air bags requires ignition on and the exhaust air switch in the down position. When I start the engine, the air pressure jumps to 60 psi pretty darn quickly (reaching 120 takes a bit longer). I don't know if anyone has tried it, but when I start the engine and the air pressure is at or near zero, I can push in and HOLD the brake button, put it in gear, and move the truck - this indicates to me the spring brakes must not have set. I know certain failures automatically set the spring brakes while moving, no matter what. Volvo would rather see the truck locked down after certain engine/EECM faults, even if it happens just around a blind curve on a narrow 2-lane road with no shoulder than harm the engine. As far as I know, my spring brakes will set automatically if I lose air pressure while moving and the ignition is on. Just a suggestion, fellows. The blocks are an extra bit of insurance. I find it aggravating and embarrassing for the brakes to "bang," the wheels to dig a hole, or have it lurch forward when a frozen drum releases - especially when in a CG. Quote Randy, Nancy and Oscar "The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks. ARS - WB4BZX, Electrical Engineer, Master Electrician, D.Ed., Professor Emeritus - Happily Retired! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hone eagle Posted September 16, 2023 Report Share Posted September 16, 2023 I do what randy does ,never had a issue in over 10 years.By the time they settle on to the drums the shoes have equilizised in some way and have not seized ,ever during covid when the didn't move for over a year -freedom line trans ,many a time i have forgot to place it in neutral without issue ,turn the key and neutral is found by default i guess. Quote 2005 volvo 670 freedomline singledNewmar Torrey Pine 34rskswoot woot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuiteSuccess Posted September 16, 2023 Report Share Posted September 16, 2023 (edited) Randy, Not arguing but trying to learn. I thought the spring in the brake cannister was compressed by a diaphragm when air was applied. Absent that air compression the springs decompress applying the brake shoes. Have I got that wrong? It’s just not making sense to me that the emergency spring would not be applied at zero psi. https://www.google.com/search?q=how+does+air+brake+chamber+work&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:fbf60587,vid:A8kQ-vABYQ4,st:0 Edited September 16, 2023 by SuiteSuccess Quote 2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding" 2017 DRV 39DBRS3 2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty" "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogman Posted September 16, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2023 (edited) Hi Folks, Just want you guys to know that I am still reading all the info. The question that I do have is the following. I can understand using a cheap cutting mats, but how do you get them between the brake shoe and the drum ? You have a backing plate in the way. I see no opening. What am I missing ? Edited September 16, 2023 by Frogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted September 16, 2023 Report Share Posted September 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Frogman said: Hi Folks, Just want you guys to know that I am still reading all the info. The question that I do have is the following. I can understand using a cheap cutting mats, but how do you get them between the brake shoe and the drum ? You have a backing plate in the way. I see no opening. What am I missing ? Those of us with higher mileage rigs, or with gravel road experience, seldom have the backing plates in position. The street gutters in Grande Prairie are littered with them. They're often not replaced during brake service, to no obvious detriment to the brakes. Besides, with the Jakes, brakes are only for parking. /S Quote I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyA Posted September 17, 2023 Report Share Posted September 17, 2023 22 hours ago, SuiteSuccess said: Randy, Not arguing but trying to learn. I thought the spring in the brake cannister was compressed by a diaphragm when air was applied. Absent that air compression the springs decompress applying the brake shoes. Have I got that wrong? It’s just not making sense to me that the emergency spring would not be applied at zero psi. https://www.google.com/search?q=how+does+air+brake+chamber+work&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:fbf60587,vid:A8kQ-vABYQ4,st:0 Carl, you are most likely correct, knowing how almost everything else works with the spring brakes. All I can come up with is when the system has been sitting and has no pressure; I can push and hold the brake knob in and move the truck. I guess the spring brakes were probably on, but the slight air pressure generated by the engine/compressor running or residual air in the tank/lines is enough to release them if I hold the knob in. When I park in neutral and don't set the brake, the spring brakes don't engage, and the truck will roll even with the engine and ignition off. Maybe it eventually sets as pressure drops? I can't say either way for sure. There is still a lot I don't know about this beast after almost 14 years of ownership. There is always something new to learn, no matter how much I digest from the manuals. Owning and driving It has been a good teacher, and I'm sorry to say it is time to start looking for a new owner. Even though I feel as safe driving the tractor and fiver as I did when I was younger, I know things have changed. I just celebrated #77 in July- time for a smaller rig, maybe a van camper or smaller TT I can pull with the PU?? Anyway, the truck and trailer are going to have to go. I just need to overcome the "maybe tomorrow" attitude and pull the trigger on a for-sale listing. Quote Randy, Nancy and Oscar "The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks. ARS - WB4BZX, Electrical Engineer, Master Electrician, D.Ed., Professor Emeritus - Happily Retired! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappir Posted September 17, 2023 Report Share Posted September 17, 2023 On 9/16/2023 at 9:23 AM, Frogman said: Hi Folks, Just want you guys to know that I am still reading all the info. The question that I do have is the following. I can understand using a cheap cutting mats, but how do you get them between the brake shoe and the drum ? You have a backing plate in the way. I see no opening. What am I missing ? On most HDT's that I have seen, there is no backing plate, you can see the brake shoes pretty easily, except on the Steer Axle, then there is a backing plate. Disc brakes may have a backing plate. Anyone know for sure about them? Rod Quote White 2000/2010Volvo VNL 770 with 7' Drom box with opposing doors, JOST slider hitch. 600 HP Cummins Signature 18 Speed three pedal auto shift. 1999 Isuzu VehiCross retired to a sticks and bricks garage. Brought out of storage the summer of 2022 2022 Jeep Wrangler Sport S Two door hard top. 2007 Honda GL 1800 2013 Space Craft Mfg S420 Custom built Toyhauler The Gold Volvo is still running and being emptied in July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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