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Brake shoes rusted to drums


Frogman

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Hi Folks,

I need your advice again. I believe that the brake shoes have rusted to the drums. The truck has been sitting for some time ( over an year ). The truck is still  tandem with an I shift transmission. I the rear wheels are free because they are digging into the gravel parking spot. I have tried to move the truck backwards and then forwards. I don't want to do this to much because I don't want to damage the truck. This is a rookie question. Can the other rear axle help move the truck ? If so, how do I do that ? What else do I need to do ? 

All input is welcomed.

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Lock the power divider, if your truck has one. Gently accelerate. Be prepared for a very loud bang. No power divider? Get out the sledge hammer and wood block. Place the wood inside the rim, on the lip of the drum. Swing. Swing. Swing. Curse. Swing. Swear to use flexible cutting boards next time parking the truck for extended periods. Swing. Try to move. Curse.

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication
2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet
2007 32.5' Fleetwood Quantum


Please e-mail us here.

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41 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Lock the power divider, if your truck has one. Gently accelerate. Be prepared for a very loud bang. No power divider? Get out the sledge hammer and wood block. Place the wood inside the rim, on the lip of the drum. Swing. Swing. Swing. Curse. Swing. Swear to use flexible cutting boards next time parking the truck for extended periods. Swing. Try to move. Curse.

Thank you for the help.  I have a good update. I was able to get the truck to move with the help of a switch on the dash board. I read the truck manual and it says to use only this switch when going straight. I believe the switch locks the left and right wheel together. 

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Power Divider locks front drive shaft to rear, locks out the interaxle differential.  Can still spin two alternate sets of wheels one of each axle and be stuck with that, patience and practice will give experience to get out of bad situations.  Our old KW has Power Divider and air Lockers for both differentials, separate switches.

 

Make certain the Cams are rotating, Slack Adjusters on the Spring Can axle moving to released direction, if not then have another issue beyond stuck shoes.

Edited by ddm502001
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I've encountered this problem more times than I care to count.  It does not take a year for the brake shoes to freeze to the drums.  It can happen in a much shorter period of time, depending on humidity and weather.  My Volvo is singled and does not have a locker.  When "at home," I park on a separate "Volvo-only" gravel driveway.  So, when the brakes freeze, one generally will break loose easily while the other stays frozen.  I dig a DEEP hole in the gravel until the tires finally hit more solid ground, and as Darrel said, you hear a loud bang and all free up on the stuck side.  While it is not something you can do just anywhere, I now set the brakes, get out, and chock the rear wheels with 4x6 blocks.  Once chocked I release the brakes and shut the truck down.  I would never do this on an incline or where some foolhardy being would remove the chocks.  They are too big and heavy to carry around with me anyway (four 4x6 pieces, each long enough to cross two tires - front and back of the rear tires - really overkill for what is needed).  To make it easier to place them, I have a looped section of rope fastened to each end that I can grab with an extension pole and hook to pull in any direction.

300.JPG.c2a50e50210ede7534c4c440c7f9aa80.JPG

Randy, Nancy and Oscar

"The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks.

ARS - WB4BZX, Electrical Engineer, Master Electrician, D.Ed., Professor Emeritus - Happily Retired!

 

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Have had my brakes lock up only once and flat spotted the tires trying to break loose. Now if it doesn't move I grab my tiny hammer and go to the offending wheel to lightly tap on the shoe that seems to still be adhered to the drum. It's usually on the trailer and I have to raise it off the ground to get under so there isn't a rolling issue. The only time it happened was in Lawton, OK. I drove into town (many miles) in a pouring rain. Then next day it was ice. I think they may have pretreated the road, but maybe it was just the rain and quick freeze. Didn't try to move till spring. 

Rod

White 2000/2010Volvo VNL 770 with 7' Drom box with opposing doors,  JOST slider hitch. 600 HP Cummins Signature 18 Speed three pedal auto shift.

1999 Isuzu VehiCross retired to a sticks and bricks garage. Brought out of storage the summer of 2022

2022 Jeep Wrangler Sport S Two door hard top.

2007 Honda GL 1800

2013 Space Craft Mfg S420 Custom built Toyhauler

The Gold Volvo is still running and being emptied in July. 

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Reverse gear helped move our dump trucks when the shoes stuck to the drums. Reverse braking is not as robust as when driving forward, which allows the shoes to move more.

 

2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country.  John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961

 

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16 hours ago, RandyA said:

I've encountered this problem more times than I care to count.  It does not take a year for the brake shoes to freeze to the drums.  It can happen in a much shorter period of time, depending on humidity and weather.  My Volvo is singled and does not have a locker.  When "at home," I park on a separate "Volvo-only" gravel driveway.  So, when the brakes freeze, one generally will break loose easily while the other stays frozen.  I dig a DEEP hole in the gravel until the tires finally hit more solid ground, and as Darrel said, you hear a loud bang and all free up on the stuck side.  While it is not something you can do just anywhere, I now set the brakes, get out, and chock the rear wheels with 4x6 blocks.  Once chocked I release the brakes and shut the truck down.  I would never do this on an incline or where some foolhardy being would remove the chocks.  They are too big and heavy to carry around with me anyway (four 4x6 pieces, each long enough to cross two tires - front and back of the rear tires - really overkill for what is needed).  To make it easier to place them, I have a looped section of rope fastened to each end that I can grab with an extension pole and hook to pull in any direction.

Randy,

Don’t the brakes automatically apply (via springs) when the air pressure bleeds from your tanks?  How do you keep that from happening?

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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11 hours ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Don’t the brakes automatically apply (via springs) when the air pressure bleeds from your tanks?  How do you keep that from happening?

Pretty sure that's true, but maybe if they are left long enough open they have a chance to dry well before they are smacked back to the drum. Good question to ask. 

 

Rod

White 2000/2010Volvo VNL 770 with 7' Drom box with opposing doors,  JOST slider hitch. 600 HP Cummins Signature 18 Speed three pedal auto shift.

1999 Isuzu VehiCross retired to a sticks and bricks garage. Brought out of storage the summer of 2022

2022 Jeep Wrangler Sport S Two door hard top.

2007 Honda GL 1800

2013 Space Craft Mfg S420 Custom built Toyhauler

The Gold Volvo is still running and being emptied in July. 

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1 hour ago, jenandjon said:

This happens a lot on our lowboy trailer. Just have to get under there and beat on the drum with a hammer. Not much you can do to prevent it. 

Dollar store flexible cutting mats, inserted before the shoes make contact with the drums. Guaranteed fix, just a little bit of in and out exercise to install/remove. All the farm equipment gets it, if the equipment is going to sit more than a week.

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication
2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet
2007 32.5' Fleetwood Quantum


Please e-mail us here.

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On 9/13/2023 at 6:15 AM, Darryl&Rita said:

Dollar store flexible cutting mats, inserted before the shoes make contact with the drums. Guaranteed fix, just a little bit of in and out exercise to install/remove. All the farm equipment gets it, if the equipment is going to sit more than a week.

Great tip

Marcel

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I noticed that the drums that were not in the shadow of a trailer or fender tended to rust/stick more.  Having a bed on the truck helps.  Having a commercial trailer that sits low relative to the tires helps.  Parking under a roof really helps.  I never tried draping a tarp over the wheels, but would imagine that would also help.

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio@yahoo.com

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4 hours ago, rickeieio said:

I noticed that the drums that were not in the shadow of a trailer or fender tended to rust/stick more.  Having a bed on the truck helps.  Having a commercial trailer that sits low relative to the tires helps.  Parking under a roof really helps.  I never tried draping a tarp over the wheels, but would imagine that would also help.

Having a DW that can crawl under the truck really helps, lol.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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31 minutes ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Having a DW that can crawl under the truck really helps, lol.

Does  your DW know you wrote this? 

White 2000/2010Volvo VNL 770 with 7' Drom box with opposing doors,  JOST slider hitch. 600 HP Cummins Signature 18 Speed three pedal auto shift.

1999 Isuzu VehiCross retired to a sticks and bricks garage. Brought out of storage the summer of 2022

2022 Jeep Wrangler Sport S Two door hard top.

2007 Honda GL 1800

2013 Space Craft Mfg S420 Custom built Toyhauler

The Gold Volvo is still running and being emptied in July. 

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Rest assured, she will.........

My wife's probably been under the truck more than I.   She's pretty good at taking pictures with her phone, handing it out to me, and asking, "Where do I hit it?"

Edited by rickeieio

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio@yahoo.com

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Well, live and learn.  Not having an auto-shift but a lowly 10-speed, I did not realize the problem with shutting it down without setting the brakes in an auto-shift truck.  Now, as far as the spring brakes setting when air pressure bleeds down, my air system will NOT bleed down on its own for days.  It is pretty darn tight pneumatically, thanks to my Whisper.  In fact, deflating the air bags requires ignition on and the exhaust air switch in the down position.  When I start the engine, the air pressure jumps to 60 psi pretty darn quickly (reaching 120 takes a bit longer).  I don't know if anyone has tried it, but when I start the engine and the air pressure is at or near zero, I can push in and HOLD the brake button, put it in gear, and move the truck - this indicates to me the spring brakes must not have set.  I know certain failures automatically set the spring brakes while moving, no matter what.  Volvo would rather see the truck locked down after certain engine/EECM faults, even if it happens just around a blind curve on a narrow 2-lane road with no shoulder than harm the engine.  As far as I know, my spring brakes will set automatically if I lose air pressure while moving and the ignition is on.

Just a suggestion, fellows.  The blocks are an extra bit of insurance.  I find it aggravating and embarrassing for the brakes to "bang," the wheels to dig a hole, or have it lurch forward when a frozen drum releases - especially when in a CG.

300.JPG.c2a50e50210ede7534c4c440c7f9aa80.JPG

Randy, Nancy and Oscar

"The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks.

ARS - WB4BZX, Electrical Engineer, Master Electrician, D.Ed., Professor Emeritus - Happily Retired!

 

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I do what randy does ,never had a issue in over 10 years.By the time they settle on to the drums the shoes have equilizised  in some way and have not seized ,ever during covid when the didn't move for over a year -freedom line trans ,many a time i have forgot to place it in neutral without issue ,turn the key and neutral is found by default i guess.

2005 volvo 670 freedomline singled
Newmar Torrey Pine 34rsks
woot woot

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Randy,

Not arguing but trying to learn. I thought the spring in the brake cannister was compressed by a diaphragm when air was applied.  Absent that air compression the springs decompress applying the brake shoes. Have I got that wrong?  It’s just not making sense to me that the emergency spring would not be applied at zero psi. 
 

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+does+air+brake+chamber+work&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:fbf60587,vid:A8kQ-vABYQ4,st:0

Edited by SuiteSuccess

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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Hi Folks,

Just want you guys to know that I am still reading all the info. The question that I do have is the following. I can understand using a cheap cutting mats, but how do you get them between the brake shoe and the drum ? You have a backing plate in the way. I see no opening. What am I missing ?

Edited by Frogman
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1 hour ago, Frogman said:

Hi Folks,

Just want you guys to know that I am still reading all the info. The question that I do have is the following. I can understand using a cheap cutting mats, but how do you get them between the brake shoe and the drum ? You have a backing plate in the way. I see no opening. What am I missing ?

Those of us with higher mileage rigs, or with gravel road experience, seldom have the backing plates in position. The street gutters in Grande Prairie are littered with them. They're often not replaced during brake service, to no obvious detriment to the brakes. Besides, with the Jakes, brakes are only for parking. /S

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication
2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet
2007 32.5' Fleetwood Quantum


Please e-mail us here.

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22 hours ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Randy,

Not arguing but trying to learn. I thought the spring in the brake cannister was compressed by a diaphragm when air was applied.  Absent that air compression the springs decompress applying the brake shoes. Have I got that wrong?  It’s just not making sense to me that the emergency spring would not be applied at zero psi. 
 

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+does+air+brake+chamber+work&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:fbf60587,vid:A8kQ-vABYQ4,st:0

Carl, you are most likely correct, knowing how almost everything else works with the spring brakes.  All I can come up with is when the system has been sitting and has no pressure; I can push and hold the brake knob in and move the truck.  I guess the spring brakes were probably on, but the slight air pressure generated by the engine/compressor running or residual air in the tank/lines is enough to release them if I hold the knob in. When I park in neutral and don't set the brake, the spring brakes don't engage, and the truck will roll even with the engine and ignition off.  Maybe it eventually sets as pressure drops?  I can't say either way for sure. There is still a lot I don't know about this beast after almost 14 years of ownership.  There is always something new to learn, no matter how much I digest from the manuals.  Owning and driving It has been a good teacher, and I'm sorry to say it is time to start looking for a new owner.  Even though I feel as safe driving the tractor and fiver as I did when I was younger, I know things have changed.  I just celebrated #77 in July- time for a smaller rig, maybe a van camper or smaller TT I can pull with the PU??  Anyway, the truck and trailer are going to have to go.  I just need to overcome the "maybe tomorrow" attitude and pull the trigger on a for-sale listing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

300.JPG.c2a50e50210ede7534c4c440c7f9aa80.JPG

Randy, Nancy and Oscar

"The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks.

ARS - WB4BZX, Electrical Engineer, Master Electrician, D.Ed., Professor Emeritus - Happily Retired!

 

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On 9/16/2023 at 9:23 AM, Frogman said:

Hi Folks,

Just want you guys to know that I am still reading all the info. The question that I do have is the following. I can understand using a cheap cutting mats, but how do you get them between the brake shoe and the drum ? You have a backing plate in the way. I see no opening. What am I missing ?

On most HDT's that I have seen, there is no backing plate, you can see the brake shoes pretty easily, except on the Steer Axle, then there is a backing plate. Disc brakes may have a backing plate. Anyone know for sure about them?


Rod

White 2000/2010Volvo VNL 770 with 7' Drom box with opposing doors,  JOST slider hitch. 600 HP Cummins Signature 18 Speed three pedal auto shift.

1999 Isuzu VehiCross retired to a sticks and bricks garage. Brought out of storage the summer of 2022

2022 Jeep Wrangler Sport S Two door hard top.

2007 Honda GL 1800

2013 Space Craft Mfg S420 Custom built Toyhauler

The Gold Volvo is still running and being emptied in July. 

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