Opinions on deleted emissions for rv?

[Deezl Smoke]

 I don't want to drive my nice 2021 rig in de-icer during the winter. So I am considering a second rig just for winter running. A much simpler machine, very little water with heated tanks, for short durations, mainly to my property in south central Oregon.

 I found a 2013 truck that has been deleted, but is a very well kept truck with non smoker owner/driver.

1: Deletes done wrong are as much expensive as broken emissions.

2: what have any of your heard or learned about rv emission testing or requirements going forward, as in nation wide etc.?

Any other thoughts or opinions?

[spindrift]

I would investigate the company that wrote the tune for the truck.  I've driven a deleted 2004 across the country, including California, and never did I need to be concerned about inspections.  This was a commercial truck so not exactly what you're considering but I can't imagine standards would be stricter for pleasure use.

[Deezl Smoke]

It is a commercial truck. Pete 386, Cummins ISX.

 It's been sitting a while for sale on the side of the road. Talked with the owner, but is reluctant to admit the reason for no sale is the delete. But he did say a couple times, "make me an offer".

[Steve from SoCal]

2004 is not an emission era truck,

 

I have a pre-emission truck and would either look for another OR a 2016 or later that is whole

 

The possibility that something or someone could make problems are low BUT they can be costly.    

 

Didn't the ISX of that era have cam problems also?

[spindrift]

3 hours ago, Steve from SoCal said:

2004 is not an emission era truck,

 

I have a pre-emission truck and would either look for another OR a 2016 or later that is whole

 

The possibility that something or someone could make problems are low BUT they can be costly.    

 

Didn't the ISX of that era have cam problems also?

2004 trucks have an EGR system.

[justRich]

Washington State did not require emissions testing on my truck when I lived there.
Maricopa County in Arizona does require emissions testing on the same truck.  They first do a visual inspection - probably looking for the simple changes made by a delete.

Personally, I would not touch that or any truck with a delete.  And I have a very harsh opinion of what should be done about deleted trucks (and their owners).

 

[Parrformance]

R134a is far more damaging to the environment than the simple effective R22 it replaced, you sir may believe the government propaganda. But do you think threatening others is the best method to share your beliefs with others?

[Dutch_12078]

38 minutes ago, Parrformance said:

R134a is far more damaging to the environment than the simple effective R22 it replaced, you sir may believe the government propaganda. But do you think threatening others is the best method to share your beliefs with others?

AC refrigerant is not part of the vehicle emissions system.

[rickeieio]

Whether a "deleted" truck will be a problem is anybody's guess.  And ONLY a guess.  No one really knows, yet.

My philosophy is to buy a late enough truck to have emission system that has the bugs out of it.  As mentioned above, 2016 or later.

That said, the original question was whether to buy a particular truck.  I would investigate what it would cost to put the truck back to original before making the final decision.

[spindrift]

1 hour ago, justRich said:

Washington State did not require emissions testing on my truck when I lived there.
Maricopa County in Arizona does require emissions testing on the same truck.  They first do a visual inspection - probably looking for the simple changes made by a delete.

Personally, I would not touch that or any truck with a delete.  And I have a very harsh opinion of what should be done about deleted trucks (and their owners).

 

Glad to know 'ya.  

[Deezl Smoke]

44 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

Whether a "deleted" truck will be a problem is anybody's guess.  And ONLY a guess.  No one really knows, yet.

My philosophy is to buy a late enough truck to have emission system that has the bugs out of it.  As mentioned above, 2016 or later.

That said, the original question was whether to buy a particular truck.  I would investigate what it would cost to put the truck back to original before making the final decision.

 Ya, I'm leaning toward moving on. I fear inspections and testing are coming soon to the Willamette valley. Intact trucks are available in the price range, just need to find one as clean and corrosion free with a non-smoker driver history.

[spindrift]

12 hours ago, Deezl Smoke said:

 I don't want to drive my nice 2021 rig in de-icer during the winter. So I am considering a second rig just for winter running. A much simpler machine, very little water with heated tanks, for short durations, mainly to my property in south central Oregon.

 I found a 2013 truck that has been deleted, but is a very well kept truck with non smoker owner/driver.

1: Deletes done wrong are as much expensive as broken emissions.

2: what have any of your heard or learned about rv emission testing or requirements going forward, as in nation wide etc.?

Any other thoughts or opinions?

I would also add that if you don't have the experience of troubleshooting and actually wrenching on an ISX, or any deleted engine for that matter, IMHO it's best to move on.  If you run into mechanical problems, I'm not aware of any Mother Cummins shop that will touch it with a ten foot pole.  Even independent shops are beginning to shy away from this work if only because of the very remote possibility that the shop will get dragged into a beef with either the EPA, or a state's environmental protection agency, or both.

And don't even think about going  to the Rawze website for info on your deleted ISX.  You'll be eaten alive

Edited August 11, 2023 by spindrift

[ddm502001]

Also depends what state registered in, as in MO is NO emissions equipment inspect on anything bigger than a ton and half Gas.  Know three others with full deletes on 06 and newer units, primarily EGR or Cat IVA, nothing ever stated to them and do NOT enter CA for any reason.  Seems CA has gone full roque fining Out of State Motorcycles Cars and Trucks with engine modifications of ANY type.  Does not stand up in court but have gone as far as towing to impound lots.  Buddy let me know on that.

[rickeieio]

To me, state of registration is not the issue.  We drive very little in the truck's home state, and trave across many.  Pulling into a repair facility and having the service dep't refuse to work on it because it's deleted has become a very real concern.  It's just not worth the risk, to me.

If I were looking to buy a second truck for use in bad weather, I'd go south and try to find something clean and pre 2003.

Edited August 11, 2023 by rickeieio

[ddm502001]

My '05 has a Processor that states, 6NZ S/N, NON emissions, nothing to the contrary anywhere on truck where I have photos of Engine as received it, apart.  Is NOTHING to indicate was ever anything EXCEPT a 6NZ so it is good.  Spoke to CAT here, they do a test Plug In to see what engine is Noted, do not give a hoot what shows under the hood as these are now nearly 20 years aged with so many having 'Yard parts' to replace failed and expensive pieces as the Main Rocker arm cover/engine brake system support.  All will work to any engine after the 3406E, ALL S/Ns.  Cat only used a Tape Tag on their engines, primarily as they could build ANY production model off any block after the 06E, their own terminology, Frankenmotors.

Would not ever take into CA, the requirements for there is a MAXIMUM Mileage limit  1000/1 week that can be achieved simply running lower 1/3 of state as NON Emission, and fuel OVER $6/gallon.  I can spend my hard earned cash a lot more readily and economically in other states.

[Deezl Smoke]

3 hours ago, ddm502001 said:

My '05 has a Processor that states, 6NZ S/N, NON emissions, nothing to the contrary anywhere on truck where I have photos of Engine as received it, apart.  Is NOTHING to indicate was ever anything EXCEPT a 6NZ so it is good.  Spoke to CAT here, they do a test Plug In to see what engine is Noted, do not give a hoot what shows under the hood as these are now nearly 20 years aged with so many having 'Yard parts' to replace failed and expensive pieces as the Main Rocker arm cover/engine brake system support.  All will work to any engine after the 3406E, ALL S/Ns.  Cat only used a Tape Tag on their engines, primarily as they could build ANY production model off any block after the 06E, their own terminology, Frankenmotors.

Would not ever take into CA, the requirements for there is a MAXIMUM Mileage limit  1000/1 week that can be achieved simply running lower 1/3 of state as NON Emission, and fuel OVER $6/gallon.  I can spend my hard earned cash a lot more readily and economically in other states.

 I second that motion. I'm sure Cali is beautiful and all that, but........

 A couple months ago though, I actually travelled into California for the first time in my life. It was mother's day actually. I was leaving my property in Christmas valley, and went to Klamath Falls to visit friends. When I left there, I took 199 to 101. Never again. But thankfully I never had to get out of the truck, so no Cali stuck to my shoes.😲

[DanZemke]

14 hours ago, Deezl Smoke said:

But thankfully I never had to get out of the truck, so no Cali stuck to my shoes.😲

You traveled into California for the first time, and didn't get any Cali stuck to your shoes?

I grew up in California and all of my relatives still live there. My father worked for the USPS and my mother raised me and my 5 brothers and sisters.  Perhaps you haven't heard that most people no longer think it's cool to be a bigot.  Grow up.

bigotry: prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

Edited August 13, 2023 by DanZemke
Clarity

[ddm502001]

Not bigotry to the Populace, Bias against the Liberalized Government there.    Not a problem to NOT ever go there, too expensive for my wallet.

[ddm502001]

Back to Deletes.  To Delete EGR really need to have the engine Decompressed as to make them run adequately breathing Dirty Air they Raised from avg 16:1 to 18:1 to do so.  DOC/DPF deletes, biggest issue is the engine Processor remains in a Fault Condition, will affect timing and fuel adjustments, saw similar on early Harley DELPHI Tuners these being a bit more complicated.  

Best Options are to leave systems as built, best overall performance and ability to adjust to changing conditions.  With my own it is a 6NZ, only items not are Hard Parts as Rocker Housing and a few odd pieces, None of which affect engine operation.  Is built on a BXS platform where has heavier four bolt rods and a better crankshaft.

Edited August 13, 2023 by ddm502001

[Deezl Smoke]

5 hours ago, DanZemke said:

You traveled into California for the first time, and didn't get any Cali stuck to your shoes?

I grew up in California and all of my relatives still live there. My father worked for the USPS and my mother raised me and my 5 brothers and sisters.  Perhaps you haven't heard that most people no longer think it's cool to be a bigot.  Grow up.

bigotry: prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

 My late girl friend was from Cali. I have lots of farm friends in northern Cali. Cari's (said late gf) daughter lives in Turlock.

 When Cari's daughter came up here to live with us for two years for some sort of internship(?) for grad school, she was just like you. Had no idea what humor was. Triggered at the first joke. Triggered at everything actually. Mad at everyone that had an opinion that differed from hers. Mad that Cari and I did'nt support socialism and the woke movement. Just an overall grouch and pee'd off person.

 Then, after some time had passed, she started to see that we were just fun'n, and that laughing and an occasional smile not only felt good, but got better results when she tried to make friends here. After about a year, she actually made a humorous reference to California.😲 She finally figured out that our reference to Cali was just in humor and not any sort of disdain for the people.

 I still stay in contact with her weekly, even though she moved back to Turlock to live with her dad. She has managed to keep her newly found sense of humor, even though they asked her to leave it in the receptacle at the border.

 Maybe it's too late for you to loosen up and find a sense of humor, I don't know. I feel sad for you. But I also know you don't care. Being triggered is just part of your life.

 

[noteven]

In the early 2000’s we were selling 25 Rattlepillars to 1 ISX mostly due to the Signature 600 oops and excellent product support from our Cat distributor.Couple or 9 bays bizzy fixing broken rocker arms on Cats but they got that sorted. From what my bad memory can ‘member the main trouble with EGR Cummins’s’z was coking of the rings (requiring inframe) from excessive idling (or not), and EGR cooler failures from not maintaining the rad cap pressure allowing cavitation at the exhaust/coolant place if meeting in the cooler. The engine electrons system is touchy about poor voltage leading to misfiring. 

Both brands like to spring oil leaks in the front structure. And break the odd camshaft. You can drive a 3406/C15 with a broken crankshaft but the clutch doesn’t want to open to allow shifting into gear. 
 

The above jibber jabber is subject to 90% of those trucks were hauling 70 ton super B’s or 100 ton oil rigs not Interstate 5 axle loads.

Over

[Deezl Smoke]

1 hour ago, noteven said:

In the early 2000’s we were selling 25 Rattlepillars to 1 ISX mostly due to the Signature 600 oops and excellent product support from our Cat distributor.Couple or 9 bays bizzy fixing broken rocker arms on Cats but they got that sorted. From what my bad memory can ‘member the main trouble with EGR Cummins’s’z was coking of the rings (requiring inframe) from excessive idling (or not), and EGR cooler failures from not maintaining the rad cap pressure allowing cavitation at the exhaust/coolant place if meeting in the cooler. The engine electrons system is touchy about poor voltage leading to misfiring. 

Both brands like to spring oil leaks in the front structure. And break the odd camshaft. You can drive a 3406/C15 with a broken crankshaft but the clutch doesn’t want to open to allow shifting into gear. 
 

The above jibber jabber is subject to 90% of those trucks were hauling 70 ton super B’s or 100 ton oil rigs not Interstate 5 axle loads.

Over

Pretty much exactly what youtube university says too. I'll have to remember the "Cummins's'z" reference.😁 This X15 E is supposed to have ISX genetics. EGR and sensors seems to be common complaints.

 Do you know much about cab and sleeper air conditioning? I have an idea, but I need to run it by someone with experience.

[Deezl Smoke]

7 hours ago, ddm502001 said:

Back to Deletes.  To Delete EGR really need to have the engine Decompressed as to make them run adequately breathing Dirty Air they Raised from avg 16:1 to 18:1 to do so.  DOC/DPF deletes, biggest issue is the engine Processor remains in a Fault Condition, will affect timing and fuel adjustments, saw similar on early Harley DELPHI Tuners these being a bit more complicated.  

Best Options are to leave systems as built, best overall performance and ability to adjust to changing conditions.  With my own it is a 6NZ, only items not are Hard Parts as Rocker Housing and a few odd pieces, None of which affect engine operation.  Is built on a BXS platform where has heavier four bolt rods and a better crankshaft.

 Yep, things are different now dayz. They used to put emissions on engines that were'nt designed for them, now they design the engine for emissions.

 My last Cat was an MXS prefix. 550. So easy to drive. This X15 E Cummins is governed,....yes governed at 1,700rpm. Does'nt just curve out at 1,700, but electronically governed at 1,700. Must less friendly to drive. But, so far, even though I'm still working on the mpg, it is far better than the Acert Cat.

[Parrformance]

9 hours ago, DanZemke said:

You traveled into California for the first time, and didn't get any Cali stuck to your shoes?

I grew up in California and all of my relatives still live there. My father worked for the USPS and my mother raised me and my 5 brothers and sisters.  Perhaps you haven't heard that most people no longer think it's cool to be a bigot.  Grow up.

bigotry: prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

So you are intolerant of his perceived intolerance?

[Deezl Smoke]

11 minutes ago, Parrformance said:

So you are intolerant of his perceived intolerance?

 If believing that makes you feel better.