Old Goat's corner, DW truck conversion project

[rpsinc]

That is VERY strong and will resist a significant impact and add to its carrying capacity as well

[phoenix2013]

Getting philosophical. It has been a decade or more since I designed and had a bed fabricated. Got reminded what a gas it is to first conceptualize it on paper

really get into it

and then see it become a reality. We are closing in on it.

[Sculptor]

I was rereading this post this morning.  In reference to your truck frame troubles, where the frame often doesn’t “stay put” from the factory.  IE the warps and pregnancy bulge you mentioned.  Would a large scale white light scan of the truck frame and suspension be of use to identify the frame ramblings beforehand?

I’ve conveniently set aside any guesses on cost or availability of a scanner.

We stopped at a park in MT last summer and there I met a techie who specializes in CAD work for the local refinery.  He scanned the back end of my truck just as a favor.  I have no software that deals with that flavor of 3D file, but he gave me some polygons that are close enough, in case I ever get the urge to design a bed.  (Full disclosure; I can push buttons but “design a bed” gives me way more status than I deserve. 🤓)

[phoenix2013]

We were remeasuring the deck with the welder yesterday for the rear panels. New "discovery", the ET is not in the center, right side is 3/4 of an inch wider than the left side. Scanning software certainly would have shown this but those programs and equipment are still in the stratosphere cost wise. So, you have to expect those kind of surprises and deal with it.

Edited June 29, 2023 by phoenix2013

[rickeieio]

When I was doing the final assembly before paint, I found that the entire rear of our bed was off center by 3/8".  I could either redo all my mounting points, or simply shim my toolbox mounts and live with it.   It still bugs me.

[phoenix2013]

Got couple of ideas banging in my head, have some leftover parts from yonder years of bed building. Hate to let them languish when there is a bed where we can affix them. Want to wager some guesses where this brain fart is going.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Looks like wheels for a side access ladder that pulls out of a compartment.

[phoenix2013]

2 hours ago, GeorgiaHybrid said:

Looks like wheels for a side access ladder that pulls out of a compartment.

Two different projects, ladder and storage compartment. Working on storage first.

[Big5er]

Henry, are the taillights pictured in your post from last Wednesday temporary? 

[phoenix2013]

1 hour ago, Big5er said:

Henry, are the taillights pictured in your post from last Wednesday temporary? 

Yes and no. The customer purchased these before the serious design process commenced and fell in love with these, no way to talk him out of them. I had to redesign the back skin, design custom rear panel for the ET, etc., to accommodate mounting it. These will be removable and un-pluggable. There will be marker lights on the very corners of the bed and some backup lights that he found. The RV socket and air glad hands, to the left of these lights.

I'm again in the pondering stage, you now, you pull the drawing of what you have, put some lines on it, make some measurements

and you tell you brain, "come on brain, how you gonna do this?" The brain says, "right now no clue, but just you wait when you take that bathroom break!"

[Wrknrvr]

   Henry,

 

   This only a suggestion.    Looking at the bed in the current production stage, I have a different thought.

    Looking at the space from behind the rear wheels to the rear bumper. That is a lot of cubic feet of storage, that is just sitting there. If that area was utilized, not only could it contain the ramps, but there could be more storage space, just for the taking.

     If the side panels were built to accommodate that space, from the rear wheel to the rear bumper.?    The storage area from the frame rail to the outside of the bed could give considerably more storage space.

  With the proper doors for access.

   It would also control road debris from flying up there. With a short mud flap on the front of the storage bin.

 

    Just saying 

[lappir]

8 hours ago, phoenix2013 said:

Yes and no. The customer purchased these before the serious design process commenced and fell in love with these, no way to talk him out of them. I had to redesign the back skin, design custom rear panel for the ET, etc., to accommodate mounting it. These will be removable and un-pluggable. There will be marker lights on the very corners of the bed and some backup lights that he found. The RV socket and air glad hands, to the left of these lights.

I'm again in the pondering stage, you now, you pull the drawing of what you have, put some lines on it, make some measurements

and you tell you brain, "come on brain, how you gonna do this?" The brain says, "right now no clue, but just you wait when you take that bathroom break!"

Thanks for the visual Henry, I'm working on what to do with my area behind the wheels. My hitch though is over the rear axle and not all the way to the end. I've got photos in another post. 

Rod

[phoenix2013]

3 hours ago, lappir said:

Thanks for the visual Henry, I'm working on what to do with my area behind the wheels. My hitch though is over the rear axle and not all the way to the end. I've got photos in another post. 

Rod

That's just more "areas of opportunity" with no hitch. We had so much space under there with this truck that we decided we have to mount something under there. I've done three trucks with under frame stuff, water tanks, ramps storage and pull out drawer similar to this one. This one has given me conniptions, bathroom trip didn't help. I think I got it nailed this morning, I'll post the solution. The challenges were: the doors, drawer clearances, drawer stops, wheel rails, rails mounting and few other things.

[phoenix2013]

4 hours ago, Wrknrvr said:

   Henry,

 

   This only a suggestion.    Looking at the bed in the current production stage, I have a different thought.

    Looking at the space from behind the rear wheels to the rear bumper. That is a lot of cubic feet of storage, that is just sitting there. If that area was utilized, not only could it contain the ramps, but there could be more storage space, just for the taking.

     If the side panels were built to accommodate that space, from the rear wheel to the rear bumper.?    The storage area from the frame rail to the outside of the bed could give considerably more storage space.

  With the proper doors for access.

   It would also control road debris from flying up there. With a short mud flap on the front of the storage bin.

 

    Just saying 

All good thoughts. I'll have to see if 8 foot ramps will work, needed his Jeep first. Not a thing of beauty but the overall length, wheelbase, tire size, location and differential height are dead on. Want to see the break-over clearance situation.

[phoenix2013]

Put my "new Jeep" to work.

My original calculations said that if I sloped the deck 7 degrees starting 60 inches forward off the ET kingpin latching circle, the Jeep differential should clear by about two inches. Hmm, a few AttaBoys should becoming my way. Next task to design the ramps and see what happens with 8 footers instead of 10 footers (my original plan). Ain't engineering a blast!!

[Wrknrvr]

I load my Jeep two with 7’6” ramps. Where they hook together in the middle, I can raise they jack stands up say 2” . That helps with the clearance situation 

i will measure my total length of the ramps tomorrow. I think they are just over 14’ when put together.  I am going to load my Jeep tomorrow. So I can measure and get pictures also.

   Also dumping the air gives some clearance with the hitch head..

[rickeieio]

Henry, when you do your calculations of under vehicle clearances, don't forget suspension sag for when Round Boy is in the driver's seat.  Don't ask.......

[phoenix2013]

Jeep working up an eight foot ramp

Could be close over the ET

ET can be easily modified to temporarily dump its air bags which lowers the head by 3 inches. Once the Jeep climbs up the incline it will easily clear the front of the ET.

[Parrformance]

I use a set of 10 foot ramps up to a deck with no dove tail. The Jeep handles the incline the best in 4 wheel low range.

I cannot speak to the clearance issue as I am unable to use a weight bearing hitch on my truck due to Government overreach in Florida.

[Wrknrvr]

    I was thinking that you could maybe use a good set of short car ramps to gain a 6” or more in elevation, at the beginning of the ramps.

   That way you could still store the ramps underneath the bed.

[phoenix2013]

Bit of a sequential thought process.

Next challenge, sealing the top, designing mid travel stops, incorporating this,

designing the outside skins with door and tire fender. We are having fun now.

Edited July 10, 2023 by phoenix2013

[phoenix2013]

Latest progress on the back of the truck.

[phoenix2013]

Since I am sharing this design process, I want to point out few "philosophical" aspects of engineering where ideal meets reality.

Rule # 1, "listen to the fabricator". Like the welder working on this truck. He's got decades of experience and can spot fupas, like, "you know this bed ain't coming off the truck unless we slide it back about an inch before we start lifting it". The bed will have to come off to finish welding, painting, mount accessories, etc. The deck assembly had to be modified slightly to allow for rear movement clearance.  I also wanted to make sure we didn't trap the ET inside the bed, pretty common on many bed designs which I cursed when I had to remove ETs to work on them, or upgrade them. What you see in the above picture is the solution to both issues. The ET gets an oversize rear plate which when removed exposes the ET mounting rails for sliding it out. It also exposes the bed stiffeners for unbolting and for watching the bed clearance while lifting.

Rule # 2, "give the fabricator everything he needs to proceed and not scratch his head". Below is what he got to start.

Not only did he get the assembly drawing but also individual  drawings how to fabricate the pieces, like the -05s cut left and right with their compound angles.

Rule #3, "design ideal but stay flexible". I haven't seen truck yet that did not have "surprises". This one in particular has "issues" both in horizontal and vertical plane, hence the note on page 2 of the assembly drawing.

I don't care if the bed is off kilter, you'll never see it on something this big, but I have to have my 12 inches to properly mount the slide drawer.

The next challenge will be the side skins extending from the rear to the tires. These will be curved in front to give the tire well that "fender" look and will incorporate the door to cover the slide tray. I already told the fabricator, "don't you dare to cut that expensive 3/16 steel plate to my drawings until you do this.

Make them out of cardboard before you torch the steel. Isn't this fun.

[rickeieio]

When we built our bed, in my long winded thread titled "Bed Build Planning", I admitted to "stealing" ideas from others' bed builds.  Making cardboard templates was one of them.  My shop princess got pretty good at making the templates so I could plasma torch the side panels.  Thank heavens I was paying attention to you when you built the yellow (Bandbuds) truck.

Keep the ideas coming.  I may need them if I ever build another bed.

[phoenix2013]

Bandbuds truck was the culmination of my truck converting career (until now). Finishing it in the subzero February weather caused serious reflection and a need to solve a problem, actually half a problem. Wife was vacationing in the rig in Florida while I was "converting" in February New Hampshire.

Upon driving to Florida I was contemplating a solution to "present" to wife. She liked the idea. By April we delivered on the idea.

Incidentally, the truck welcomed me when I arrived.

Said to me, "Glad you made it down, incidentally I wasn't going back to friggin' cold New Hampshire no matter what".