1st RV purchase... is it too much?!

[Wizards&OZ]

Soon to be purchasing our very first Class A RV. We've searched endlessly and found one that we like inside and out, but thinking it might be way overpriced. Are we making a mistake? Can someone with more experience give us their expert advice, please? We found NEWER models in the same price range. Perhaps, a 1998 model is too old and we should really be looking for something newer? Thoughts?

1998 NewMar Mountain Aire

DESCRIPTION:
Totally redone inside and out!
1 Slide-Out, 38ft. in length.
F53 Chassis, 400 Onan 6500 Gen. set 50 amp Emerald plus Generator. Transmission and Generator both have been serviced this year. Back up camera, New AC units with heat strips. New black Awnings all around. Roof resealed. All new exterior LED lights. Tires 2 years old. Self leveling system, new shocks, new windshield and both front windows. 2 flat screen tvs and DVD player. New carpet, countertops, full size sleeper sofa, banquet, light fixtures all hardware. Ceramic tile backsplash in kitchen and Bath, new faucets. Under mount sink in kitchen. Ceramic tile floor in bath. Temperpedic Queen mattress. New paint inside. 
This coach was custom painted in 2016. NO DECALS all custom paint! Diamond shield on front. 

ASKING PRICE: $45,000
 

[sandsys]

Some of those upgrades make me nervous. It feels like this unit may have had severe damage. To the best of my knowledge it is very rare to replace the windshield and front windows. Add to that roof work and full body paint outside plus new paint inside and I wonder what they are trying to hide. The answer may be they are hiding nothing but most people would not spend that much money on a rig this age. I would proceed slowly and thoroughly when it comes to inspecting this rig.

Linda Sand

[2gypsies]

Being in an accident doesn't come to mind.  It's 20 years old and was probably in need for a complete updating.  The windshield could have had chips in it and the side windows could have had seals broke.  With a new paint job estimated around $15,000+ you would want the windows new.  All updates would be in line with the age. New tires is another big item. I did see it on RVTrader and it states it has 67,000 miles which is good for the 20 yr. age.  However, it is gas and has only one slide, if you're comfortable with that.  I would have an independent inspection done on it.

Just a quick comparison... on PPL Consignment in Texas there's a 2006 38' Newmar, 400 HP Cummins/Spartan diesel with 4 slides, 26,000 miles for $70,000.

Another one on RVTrader is a 2005 Newmar diesel with 10,000 miles for $70,000.

I didn't take the time to do any serious searches and price inspections which you should do.  It looks awesome!

[TLRam1]

You have After photos, I would ask for Before photos to see what shape it was in or why all the work to sell this unit. 

[Kirk W]

Welcome to the Escapee forums! We are happy that you are here and we will do all that We are able to help you!

In looking through the available advertisements I am guessing that you saw this one on the RV Trader? If I am right, move down one line to the next ad and you will see another Mountain Aire of the same year but on a diesel chassis for $30k for only slightly more money. If you look this one up in NADA you will find that the average retail price for what you are looking at is about $20k. In reading the ad for the RV it seems highly probable that someone completely remodeled this coach and spent far more than would be likely to recover doing so. I would not begin to recommend buying this coach without first examining it in person because pictures can be made to lie. If the coach is really as it seems and really does look near new, only then would I spend the money to have a professional RV inspector go over it, or some mobile RV tech if and a good mechanic if you can't find the RV tech. Is this coach powered by the Ford 460 or is it the Ford V-110? (if the 460 walk away as there were 1998 coaches on both chassis and they are very different) This could be a dream come true but it could also be the worst nightmare if the pretty paint and interior are hiding an RV in poor condition. The final question then is do you plan to finance it? Very few financial agencies will carry much of the cost of an RV that is 20 years old. If it passes all of those tests the next thing that you need to check is what it weighs as compared to the GVWR(gross weight rating) to be sure that it has enough weight capacity to carry what you plan to put into it. 

All RVs depreciate at a far more rapid pace than do automobiles. In this case you would be paying more than twice the price that other coaches of similar age and model sell for, so even though this one may have had more than the difference in price spent in upgrading it, you would probably never be able to sell it for even half of what you would be paying, 1 year down the road. The only way that I would ever consider this RV would be if I knew that I would keep in for a long time and even then I would probably offer them no more than $35k. 

As a footnote to these comments, I do have some knowledge of similar RV as we bought a 36', 1998 Cruise Master by Georgie Boy new in May of 1998. That coach was one of the first to be built on the just released 1999 F-53 chassis as Ford introduced the new V-10 powered and redesigned chassis March of 1998 as a 99 year model. There were no 1998 F-53 chassis. The ones built in early 98 were all rated for 18k GVWR but in late summer of 98 they brought out the 20k rated F-53 which would hopefully be what this one is on. That early V-10 was rated at 275 hp and was a bit underpowered for coaches of 35+ feet so I had a complete Banks performance package added to it and that made a world of difference. Many of the improvements I got from Banks were later made to the engine/chassis which play a major role in the current rating of the same engine at 305 hp. Given proper care and maintenance that engine was a very reliable one and I owned mine for 14 years and put almost 80k miles on it with no major mechanical problems. I sold the coach in 2012 and as of 2017 it was still on the road, but in a part time use and it had just over 120k miles and still no major repairs.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

8 hours ago, sandsys said:

Some of those upgrades make me nervous. It feels like this unit may have had severe damage. To the best of my knowledge it is very rare to replace the windshield and front windows. Add to that roof work and full body paint outside plus new paint inside and I wonder what they are trying to hide. The answer may be they are hiding nothing but most people would not spend that much money on a rig this age. I would proceed slowly and thoroughly when it comes to inspecting this rig.

Linda Sand

Friends of ours have an identical year and model.  The passenger windshield can be an issue cracking if the coach is out of level/twisted.  Mikes has a single ram under the front for leveling and the frame has been known to twist a little.  It also has a rubber roof, so a limb tear or whatnot means a new roof.

Looks like a decent price for the year and model.  If they cared for the inside and mechanicals they way they should have, it will be a good rig for you.

[Wizards&OZ]

Thank you for all the helpful comments, tips and suggestions. ALL good information. We did see the unit in person and it was beautiful inside and out. Looks very well maintained, and cared for. The owner did a nice job with the interior renovations. Looking at getting an inspection set-up, but will keep our eyes open for a newer rig within our price range and see how it all plays out. Thanks again for all those who commented. I really appreciate it! 

[whj469]

A 20 year RV will likely have some issues? That is a lot for such an older MH. There have been a lot of improvements in the past 20 years. Have you looked at PPL? I find their website to be very informative. 

[dewilso]

Looks like a nearly overloaded 53 gas chassis.

And all RV's are likely to have "issues".

[Ray,IN]

Every reply is sound advice IMO. Keep in mind the old adage " buyer beware". Kirk's reply should be taken to heart. Shoot, I might be OK getting $45,000-$50,000 cash for my 2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom in my signature, which was top of the line for Winnebago when it was being produced.

[Lou Schneider]

3 hours ago, dewilso said:

Looks like a nearly overloaded 53 gas chassis.

And all RV's are likely to have "issues".

No F53 chassis ever came from the factory with a tag axle.  It was added later by the coach builder to handle excess weight.

[2gypsies]

From the picture and the area it looks like it might be parked at Precision Motorhome Painting.  They do top quality work.  Possibly the owner put a lot into it thinking he'd just keep it rather than buying new and then for some reason he now has to give it up. Could be medical.  I'm sure it's a beautiful unit to see.

[Wizards&OZ]

It's a beautiful MH... had a chance to see it in person. The before/after pictures are quite surprising! The owners wife did a tremendous job on the interior too. The owner upgraded to a newer diesel pusher and wants to sell this older gas MH. No accidents or water damage, supposedly. As much as I love this MH... I think I'm going to take the advice of others on this platform and look for something newer. 

It's both a curse and a blessing... when searching for Class A's... there are literally hundreds of them available online. You can search for hours, days, weeks...months! It's a hard to settle on "THE ONE." You find something you like and then something else comes along that is only a little more expensive. Then, another... and another. By the time you're finished, you've found yourself falling in love with a rig that out of your price range. 

I'll do my best to set a firm budget and establish our wants vs. needs. I feel like I'm going in circles and having a hard time finding where to draw the line. It's overwhelming as it's our first MH purchase, a large investment, and one that we want to make sure we're making the "right" choice. 

Thanks again for all your insight and help! 

[Ray,IN]

Reality is when one realizes there is a huge difference between the asking price and what it is worth on the open market. Ever see an older vehicle with hundreds of dollars worth of add-ons or replacement parts sell for enough to recoup the price of those extras?

[sandsys]

Perhaps if you asked us here what our most important need is, and why, we might offer you some insight. For me I need a diesel because, with my mobility challenges, I can't get past a gasser's doghouse. I also need a bed that doesn't require crawling to get into since I can't crawl without pain. My main want is a microwave oven low enough that I can remove hot foods from it without pouring them all over myself. It's only a want as long as my Dave is there to get the hot food out.

Linda Sand

[Kirk W]

45 minutes ago, Wizards&OZ said:

Thanks again for all your insight and help! 

If you were to tell us a bit about how you intend to use the RV we could probably give better advice. While I would want to do a hard look at the unit's weight and its weight limits, it might serve you very well so long as you realize that it would only sell for about half of what they are asking for it. It isn't true that all of them are overloaded but it is possible that this one is. 

[Wizards&OZ]

We're a young family (mid-30's with a 2 y/o son) looking to travel East to West coast and everywhere in between. Our goal is to become full-timers, but for now, just taking a 6-month sabbatical to travel. Would like a rig that's comfortable and spacious for our son too. While I like the idea of a bunk-house... we would only use the one bed and the other for storage maybe? But, then again, a bunkhouse does take up quite a bit of living space, so we would make do with other sleeping arrangements. A washer/dryer would be ideal. A well appointed kitchen. Other than that... not very particular. Just a safe, reliable MH to get us from point A to point B. Looking to spend a lot of time on the road, and time in one spot. Maybe 2-3 days max per campground/rv park.

[Wizards&OZ]

Found this and liked the divided layout. Closing off the living space from the kitchen/dining area. The color scheme and cabinets are really nice. Like the masculine "den" type feeling. 

https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/used-rvs-for-sale/class-a/2017-thor-challenger_rv-38995

Ford engine is preferred. Gasoline vs. Diesel pusher, but that wouldn't be a deal breaker. 

[sandsys]

2 hours ago, Wizards&OZ said:

Found this and liked the divided layout. Closing off the living space from the kitchen/dining area. The color scheme and cabinets are really nice. Like the masculine "den" type feeling. 

https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/used-rvs-for-sale/class-a/2017-thor-challenger_rv-38995

Ford engine is preferred. Gasoline vs. Diesel pusher, but that wouldn't be a deal breaker. 

Are you planning on your 2-year old sleeping with you? I only saw one sleeping space and the table only has 2 chairs.

Linda Sand

[FL-JOE]

21 hours ago, dewilso said:

Looks like a nearly overloaded 53 gas chassis.

And all RV's are likely to have "issues".

I totally agree with the above.  This coach may look great and from the description it appears someone has attempted to update it at all costs, however it is still a old coach with a V-10 gas engine and F-53 suspension.  

If I were you I would keep looking.  If your price point is in that $40,000 to $60,000 range you certainly could find a diesel pusher or a newer gas model.  If you do get serious about this one be sure to ask your insurance agent how much you could insure it for.  I wouldn't want to suffer a complete loss of my RV only to find out my insurance would only pay out $15,000 because of its age.

[Kirk W]

6 hours ago, sandsys said:

Ford engine is preferred. Gasoline vs. Diesel pusher, but that wouldn't be a deal breaker. 

If you choose a gasoline-powered class A it is probably going to have a Ford engine unless you go back about 10 years as Ford is the only gas chassis for some time now. Folks on these forums tend to be heavy promoters of diesel power but there are many of us who have chosen gasoline for the lower initial cost and maintenance. Diesels do have significant advantages as most have air ride which is the best there is but if budget is limited you can go anywhere in a gas coach that the diesels go. We lived quite happily in a Ford-powered class A for nearly 12 years. 

I do believe that the linked RV would serve you far better and more reliably than the first one you considered. While appearance is important, it can hide a world of problems, so be very careful and get professional help before you buy. Be sure that you understand the weight ratings and limits as you shop because the three of you will need ample cargo capacity and overloading makes for poor handling and unsafe travel. I suggest you look through some of these choices as well. Another TX dealer with an excellent reputation is Motorhome Specialists, so check them out also. If you have not done so, you will need a mail service and Escapees has a complete support system. And the X-scapers group has many members who are more your age than most of us. 

[scouserl41]

Be aware that the 1998/99 V10 Ford engine was redesigned in 2000 due to the spark plug threads being too shallow, resulting in many cases of plugs getting shot out of the head. This required helicoiling of the heads to restore the treads.

Apart from that the F53 chassis is a good one. $45k for a 98 seems king of steep though, RV's prior to 2000 are difficult to resell.

I HIGHLY recommend getting a professional inspector to go over the rig thoroughly before putting down your money.

We have fulltimed for 3 1/2 years in a 1999 with the same engine and chassis and have enjoyed it immensely but we only paid 1/2 of what they are asking for yours.

BnB

[Kirk W]

2 hours ago, scouserl41 said:

Be aware that the 1998/99 V10 Ford engine was redesigned in 2000 due to the spark plug threads being too shallow, resulting in many cases of plugs getting shot out of the head. This required helicoiling of the heads to restore the treads.

Actually, this isn't accurate. The problem came after the 2000 performance boost that included an increase in compression. The change was from 275 hp rating to the 305 and then to 310 hp between 2000 to 2004. Not sure when but that engine had a modification to the aluminum head to eliminate the blown plug problem somewhere in that run, I think with the change to 310. In 2005 it was upgraded again to produce 362 hp. In 2010 the 6.8L engine was replaced with a modular version at 6.2L and 320 hp for better fuel consumption.

[2gypsies]

18 hours ago, Wizards&OZ said:

Found this and liked the divided layout. Closing off the living space from the kitchen/dining area. The color scheme and cabinets are really nice. Like the masculine "den" type feeling. 

https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/used-rvs-for-sale/class-a/2017-thor-challenger_rv-38995

Ford engine is preferred. Gasoline vs. Diesel pusher, but that wouldn't be a deal breaker. 

Agree with Linda . . there's no place for your child to sleep.  Also, I wouldn't want the eating table that close to the bathroom.  Keep looking!