curtm Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 670 volvo 209" wheelbase , anyone ever just remover power divider (front diff) and extended drive shaft ????, Seems easy except to get new drive shaft ??, what would it do to the Weight distribution any feed back would be appreciated thanks Curt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'mdonewiththis forum Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 You mean single it long? The only thing to keep an eye on is getting to much weight on the steering axle if you plan on a car on the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasFlyer Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Why are you singling it? John Southern Nevada 2008 Volvo 780, D13, I-Shift 2017 Keystone Fuzion 420 Toyhauler 2017 Can-Am Maverick X3-RS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtm Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Reason for singling is 10-4 signling it long 1, weight 2, more wear parts, 3, more air usage 4, Better fuel mileage Would like a small car on the rear, but if 5th wheel was behind drive axle, that would help the front axle weight, just wondering if it would be an option, I have worked on trucks for many years and the work to move the rear axle may not be beneficial for weight distribution depending on 5th wheel location Curt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Dreamer Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 You have to do a weight and balance sheet to determine if it will overload the axle. There have been some that have single long and had issues with front axle weight. Typically if you move the hitch farther back to take load off the axle, you end up being possibly over length. Best location today if singling is probably Mid. Otherwise tandem seems to be good as trailers seem to keep getting heavier. Dave 2005 Freightliner Century S/T, Singled, Air ride ET Jr. hitch 2019 46'+ Dune Sport Man Cave custom 5th wheel toy hauler Owner of the 1978 Custom Van "Star Dreamer" which might be seen at a local car show near you! Check out http://www.hhrvresource.com/ for much more info on HDT's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiaHybrid Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 Curt, If you are singling rear or mid, you can't just delete the front axle and make a longer driveshaft. You need to watch your driveline angles and make sure they are correct or you will have a lot of issues. 2017 Kenworth T6802015 DRV 38RSSA Elite Suites2016 Smart Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtm Posted April 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 GeorgiaHybrid I agree, Driveline angles are important and would have to be considered, my thought is i am not fond of the looks of the frame hanging out 4-6' past the rear diff, iam looking at a small jeep on the deck , preferably without the ramp on the back of the cab to save a few feet of lenght. You are correct about the front axle weight issue This is merely a thought on my part about front power divider removel and if any one has done it, if so that issues were encountered, I pppreciate the feed back , good didcussion Thanks Curt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alie&Jim's Carrilite Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 A Jeep on the deck will overload the front axle if you single long. Leaving it tandem would be your best bet in that scenario. Alie & Jim + 8 paws 2017 DRV Memphis BART- 1998 Volvo 610 Lil'ole 6cyl Cummins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Maker Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 15 hours ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said: A Jeep on the deck will overload the front axle if you single long. Leaving it tandem would be your best bet in that scenario. Depending on your pin weight, you could come close to overloading your singled axle also. Rocky & Sheri Rhoades '01 Volvo 770 2016 DRV Mobile Suites, HoustonHERO Makers Ministry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDirectionHome Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 Those responding have made conclusions based on a lot of assumptions as to what your actual configuration might be. Front axle GVW rating, engine size, transmission type, fuel tank size, sleeper size, bed material, and whether you load the Jeep engine forward or backwards. You need to run YOUR numbers for YOUR truck. You might be pleasantly surprised. "There are No Experts, Do the Math!" 2014 Freightliner Cascadia DD16 600hp 1850ft-lb 18spd 3.31 260"wb SpaceCraft S-470 SKP #131740 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 21 minutes ago, NoDirectionHome said: You need to run YOUR numbers for YOUR truck. There's an olde pharte haunting the forum with a spreadsheet to answer your questions. He hides behind the label of DollyTrolley..... KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big5er Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 On 4/2/2017 at 3:32 PM, curtm said: any feed back would be appreciated thanks Curt Hmm...didn't he ask for them to make assumptions? And you aren't the first one to tell him to do a weight and balance sheet. MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~ 2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 2014 smart Fortwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alie&Jim's Carrilite Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 2 hours ago, NoDirectionHome said: Those responding have made conclusions based on a lot of assumptions as to what your actual configuration might be. d. Heavest front axle is going to be 13200. It's a 670 Volvo.... Chances are either an N-14 Cummins or a Volvo D-12,13..... Any of those engines leave little room on the front axle for extra loading. He is asking about singling long.... to offset the weight of the Jee, either on a rack or length ways, by using pin weight of the RV, the truck would be 35' long, with a 7K pin weight. Some of us can make assumptions based on the little bit of fact we are given because we have studied and worked on these scenarios before. Curtm is not the first and will not be the last to ask these questions. We try to impart the knowledge we have to help others from making expensive mistakes. Alie & Jim + 8 paws 2017 DRV Memphis BART- 1998 Volvo 610 Lil'ole 6cyl Cummins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDirectionHome Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 I said you need to do your homework. As an example, my 260"wb (tandem) Cascadia has the DD16 (2800#'s) a 2000+ # drom and Smart on a deck. With full fuel (290 gal.) I'm 500#'s under my 13,300# frt axle weight without the trailer. So again you need to KNOW all the details to do even a rough estimate of where you'll end up. "There are No Experts, Do the Math!" 2014 Freightliner Cascadia DD16 600hp 1850ft-lb 18spd 3.31 260"wb SpaceCraft S-470 SKP #131740 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big5er Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 8 hours ago, NoDirectionHome said: So again you need to KNOW all the details to do even a rough estimate of where you'll end up. Seems to me that if you KNOW all the details you wouldn't need to do a rough estimate. You should be able to get it fairly close if you have all the facts. But there are many people here that managed to do well with a "rough" estimate long before the science here was worked out. Asking for a guestimate here will get you some really good answers and help you gain the knowledge about those "numbers" that you mentioned but didn't feel a need to explain. Those "guesses" come from some really knowledgeable people. And asking for a guess from these people will give you a good starting point to think about. I think Jim's "guess" was pretty dead on. I don't believe that the OP planned to start cutting on his truck based solely on the options he got here. But you started your post criticizing the opinions of everyone that posted before you. Seems to me that was kind of uncalled for since they were giving curt the "any feedback" that he asked for. All you told him was to run his own numbers. Your second post was probably a lot more helpful to him than your first one. MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~ 2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 2014 smart Fortwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDirectionHome Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 Didn't mean to criticize anyone Phil. Actually to encourage OP as it seemed "you'll overload the front or rear suspension" was the broad consensus. I'm pretty knowledgeable. Dolly & myself share engineering thoughts and spreadsheets offline. Well with that said, sorry if the "tone" missed the mark. -Steve "There are No Experts, Do the Math!" 2014 Freightliner Cascadia DD16 600hp 1850ft-lb 18spd 3.31 260"wb SpaceCraft S-470 SKP #131740 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big5er Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 And that is why I hate forums at times. Sorry if I "misread" your tone of voice Steve. MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~ 2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 2014 smart Fortwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollytrolley Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 On April 5, 2017 at 3:16 PM, rickeieio said: There's an olde pharte haunting the forum with a spreadsheet to answer your questions. He hides behind the label of DollyTrolley..... So.......NOW that Rickoo has outed-me out of the geezer protection program if you want to fiddle with the weight and balance spreadsheet just send me a email at. mmcdan3189@aol.com and by return email I'll send you the spreadsheet........ NOW regarding the..........issue of......".. pharte" ........I know this forum tends to try to be family friendly so I will try to keep this delicate subject "elevated" to the high standards of the average geezer RV trucker........ So ......many moons ago a friend that I owed a favor to was in a bind in that he had a gig for flying "private-service-workers" to remote "infastructure" locations and then these "private-service-workers" would jump out of the aircraft at looooow altitude to........"mitigate" folks on the location that might want to do......."whatever"..... Anyhow this "training" was conducted "off shore" in a fairly rustic location and the "jumpers" we're a fairly grim bunch of......former missfits from various army's ......these guys were not nice people......... The "mission concept" was that a fairly small single engine airplane would dispatch with 4 or 5 jumpers as the aircraft stealthily glides in from a somewhat high enough alitude to give the jumpers a advantage of suprise to the pranksters up to no good at the site...... As the daily news tells us by the hour not all "mission-concepts" are well planned and this "private-effort" had many of the problems that more offical programs have plus a few more warts as well. The hodge-poog of aircraft were fairly maintained but not perfect for the mission but what the heck that's why the highly skilled pilot is paid big bucks to make up for equipment downgrades.......oh ya... So the real "problem" was that if you put a highly senisitive pilot in a small aircraft with 5 grim animals that have spent the previous night crawling around really bad bars and worse eating cabbage you get the stage set for a very smelly flight to the jump zone........ So......being the Captian of the aircraft I decided to call breafing before the next mission and order the jumpers to not ........"release" until well clear of the jump door........did I mention that this group of misfits had all been booted out of various army's around the world for not obaying orders.......oh no my "request" only made the "air quality" much worse. So.......I think we'll I'll just go up the chain of command but being a private force the chain was only one link long and the chain smoking old geezer said " do whatever......don't bother me....." So so next flight we climb to 100 ft off the end of the runway and.......I start jerking around and clutching my chest.....but I had trimmed the aircraft for a slow climb and kept one eye somewhat open so we were not in real danger.....so guess what the animals do........first thing the throw open the jump door and look outside but we are too low to jump......but when they opened the door the added drag stopped our climb so they were in a pickle.......not one of these animals had any clue of how to fly so they just looked out the door for a few minutes till we wondered out over a deep canyon and they all bailed out to leave me to "crash"..... Funny how sometimes some problems seem to just solve themselves......the next morning the animals looked even worse than normal after a 25 mile hike all day and night out of the canyon but ........the "mission" did clear the air.....for future flights....... Drive on..........(enjoy the ride......and clean air) 97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alie&Jim's Carrilite Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 So that was YOU!!! LOL Alie & Jim + 8 paws 2017 DRV Memphis BART- 1998 Volvo 610 Lil'ole 6cyl Cummins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEIFamily Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 I have my 670 singled long with a 13,200 front axle. Hitch is a few feet behind the rear wheels. Pin weight is about 2200# IIRC. The weigh station slip for mine with 1/2 tanks of fuel and a smart car sitting behind the cab on a 2000lb flatbed deck. Steer 11,260 Drive 14,520 Trailer 11,300 Gross 37,080 trailer sticker shows GVWR 14,165 When we get home, I plan on getting it weighed without the trailer attached but smart loaded then again with smart off. I am curious how my weights are and if I can somehow squeeze a jeep on the back on ramps. I have about 13ft of space from the back of the cab until I encroach on the trailer space needed for turning. 2006 Volvo 670 singled long 2011 Heartland Sundance 3300CK 2006 Smart passion 2001 F350 DRW CREWCAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollytrolley Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 On April 7, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Big5er said: Seems to me that if you KNOW all the details you wouldn't need to do a rough estimate. You should be able to get it fairly close if you have all the facts. But there are many people here that managed to do well with a "rough" estimate long before the science here was worked out. Asking for a guestimate here will get you some really good answers and help you gain the knowledge about those "numbers" that you mentioned but didn't feel a need to explain. Those "guesses" come from some really knowledgeable people. And asking for a guess from these people will give you a good starting point to think about. I think Jim's "guess" was pretty dead on. I don't believe that the OP planned to start cutting on his truck based solely on the options he got here. But you started your post criticizing the opinions of everyone that posted before you. Seems to me that was kind of uncalled for since they were giving curt the "any feedback" that he asked for. All you told him was to run his own numbers. Your second post was probably a lot more helpful to him than your first one. Good points Phil, As it appears I have been defamed as the Weight and Balance preacher here and mabe just maybe I might be guilty as charged........ in the past I have attempted to "help" so forum members with calculating some "what-if" cases for various configurations for their truck / tractor / trailer combos........as a whole I will say my track record has not been very good. As Phil calls it "science" ......does involve some "details" need to be accounted for to form the "basis" for the very "basic" calculations need to actually arrive at a accurate Weight and Balance for a given configuration. Now dont get out the flame throwers but even pilots that are supposed to know how to calculate Weight and Balance before every flight hate working the calculations and it appears the RV Truckers might hate the process even more than pilots........ Now does the Truck Weight and Balance spreadsheet work.....sorta......like anything that works or NOT work ......the devil is in the details. So I have sent the spreadsheet out maybe a dozen times or so and it appears that most folks eyes glaze over when they realize that they actually have to measure and document several points of variable mass (weight) such as fuel tanks, hitch location, smart cars, water tanks, etc, etc,....... I suspect that as things start to look a bit like tax forms folks decide it is far better to just ........WAG....(Wild A$$ Guess) the truck / trailer and see what happens...... Now does WAG work???? I would say that WAG that for the most part it seems to work .......I do not recall any folks having the front axle break in half from overload or even a singled rear drive axle fail so........WAG might fine. Now do I run a new spreadsheet every time I add windshield fluid to the Trolley....well.....no I don't . Being tandem AND having a tiny M11 engine the Trolley never ever comes close to any axle limits.....ever so why would I ever run a spreadsheet.......well.....for the "ride"..... The better the Balance that the Trolley is......the better the ride is for us AND the trailer...... Everyone "KNOWS" that Class 8 trucks will beat a trailer to pieces without a long travel air dampened hitch .......but.....very few folks consider trying to "tune"the truck suspension by "tuning" the Weight and Balance. The Trolley can be a nice ride in "balance" and a not very nice "ride" out of balance.....the choice is mine. A lotta folks here seemed obsessed with axle weights.......I seemed obsessed with tire loads........tires are a lazy item....tires like light loads and cool temps......I don't sweat the axles....its those rubber things on the end of the axle that might ruin your day.....WAG ......can be a adventure.... Drive on.......( enjoy the........."ride") 97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasFlyer Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 So Dolly, That was an interesting story about how you flew a bunch of misfit prostitutes around to jump out of planes and service folks in thier infrastructure..... John Southern Nevada 2008 Volvo 780, D13, I-Shift 2017 Keystone Fuzion 420 Toyhauler 2017 Can-Am Maverick X3-RS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollytrolley Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 1 hour ago, VegasFlyer said: So Dolly, That was an interesting story about how you flew a bunch of misfit prostitutes around to jump out of planes and service folks in thier infrastructure..... John you gotta stay outa sin-city more days of the week.........Maybe I could call Don and get you more work-at-home-days....... Who knows, by now you might have a point.......maybe some of those animals got gender-re-a-signed and shucks they might be some of those girls with the rainbow hair you are seeing on you way to the office...... Drive on...........(Hows your...........infrastructure today) 97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtm Posted April 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 wow so much to read, lotta good info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollytrolley Posted April 14, 2017 Report Share Posted April 14, 2017 10 hours ago, curtm said: wow so much to read, lotta good info Well Curt ya know John might have a point in that I did wonder a bit out in the weeds with the animals and the gender re-a$$nment chapter...... Drive on........(where were we.....) 97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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