Refrigerator Fire Protection

[gfstryder]

I have a 2013 Dometic 12 cubic foot refrigerator in my motor home. I have been in discussions with the owner of a product called ARPrv Control. Apparently, his product senses when the refrigerator is overheating and shuts the refrigerator off when a specified temperature is exceeded. According to the owner of ARPrv Control, I am at risk of a refrigerator fire and his product is the only one which can prevent refrigerator fires from occurring. Has anybody heard of this product and do you know if ARPrv Control is an essential addition to my refrigerator to prevent fires?

[pjstough]

Yes, I have heard of his product, and have actually sat through his presentation a couple of times, and I know a few people who have purchased his product, however, it is my understanding that there are only a couple of models on Norcold refrigerators that had the problem with fire, and Norcold has provided a "fix" for these models. To me, using this add on is just insurance to reduce the probability of having a refrigerator fire, but not a guarantee. Basically,all this add on does is monitor temperature and when it gets to a set point, it shuts the refrigerator off.

[Ray,IN]

Is your specific model and serial # refrigerator under recall? The ARP is well-spoken of by users, but I don't have one and likely never will. The recall "box" shuts off any heating source if the over-temperature "box" detects such condition. Either way, with or without the ARP device, it's time to replace the cooling unit.

Absorption refrigerators have a blowout plug that melts at 281*F, it's normal operating temperate is lower than that obviously. The recall box shuts down at (I think) 149*F.

ref: http://aegiforensics.com/library/pdfs/Invest-Absorpt-Refrig-Fires-Part1.pdf

IMO the single most important thing you can do is to insure your absorption refrigerator is installed exactly as mfgrs installation instructions dictate, and their recall has been performed. If the recall has not been installed, or you do not want that, I do recommend the ARP unit.

[Yarome]

His claim that they are the only ones that sell that type of unit are true (to my knowledge) and are well spoken of (although I don't know what that is based on... "we have one and our reefer hasn't caught on fire"?), but I tend to agree with Paul.. it's not a necessity unless it gives you needed peace of mind. I know a couple of folks that have them installed, but I know countless more that don't, have full timed for more than a decade, and have never had a reefer fire either.

 

Installed, maintained correctly/regularly, and used in accordance with the manufacturers directions (mainly, keep it level), I don't see any need for any undue concern.

[NH2]

Our system will not "prevent" a fire but will suppress it should one occur. Is it "necessary"? Probably not. For us, it's like paying for any type of insurance. I'm not sure we've filed a claim in years, maybe decades, but wouldn't want to be without a good policy.
This one is temperature-sensitive, and is capable of instantly filling the cavity behind the fridge with halon.

Mark

[Kirk W]

Has anybody heard of this product and do you know if ARPrv Control is an essential addition to my refrigerator to prevent fires?

 

To me, using this add on is just insurance to reduce the probability of having a refrigerator fire, but not a guarantee. Basically,all this add on does is monitor temperature and when it gets to a set point, it shuts the refrigerator off.

 

Installed, maintained correctly/regularly, and used in accordance with the manufacturers directions (mainly, keep it level), I don't see any need for any undue concern.

Just to give those who ask a little bit of direct information on this device, I have one on our present RV and will never own another absorption refrigerator without one. Another satisfied user is Mark Nemeth of the Escapee staff and director of the "RVer's Boot Camp" and he agrees with me that he will never be without one and he even recommends it in his boot camp classes. He is also the person responsible for inviting the owner/designer of the ARPrv to write the series of articles about RV refrigerators which is currently being published in each succeeding issue of Escapees Magazine.

 

To answer if it is essential to RV use, it just depends upon your willingness to accept risk. Not all RV refrigerators catch fire and many never will but the risk is real and absorption refrigerators are among the most frequent causes of fire inside of an RV. The system shown in post #5 is probably the best means of safety if you do not add the ARPrv to your absorption refrigerator, but I prefer to prevent the fire, rather that to put one out after it has started. It is impossible to prove what any safety device has prevented as you can never be sure that you would have had the problem a device is invented to prevent, but it can be proven that to date there have been no refrigerator caused fires in RVs with the ARPrv installed and in operation. Our compact RV does not have enough space in the rear of the refrigerator to install a device like the one shown in #5 and the prevention device cost me much less and takes almost no space. I also use the version which includes a fan & fan control since my refrigerator did not have one installed.

 

The beauty of the device is that it does not do anything to change the refrigerator and so has no impact upon the warranty or factory support, but just turns the refrigerator off exactly as though it had lost power when the temperature exceeds the normal operating temperature of the boiler and once that temperature has returned to normal, power is restored as normal. With no heat, the probability of a fire is extremely unlikely.

[Dennis M]

We have an automatic extinguisher in the compartment just like Mark's. I have also added the ARPrv product. Fairly inexpensive, straightforward installation and invisible operation so why not have it for insurance.

 

There have been a number of recalls, my unit is not in any of them. However, I have heard of fires with units not covered by recalls and even post recall fires. Maybe hearsay and inaccurate reports, but the fact is RV refrigerators are susceptible to overheating so why not have some inexpensive insurance.

 

As Mark said, it is like any kind of insurance. I have never had a fire in a stationary house but I have always had fire insurance. Spent a whole lot more on home fire insurance over the years than i did on the ARPrv unit!

 

How many fire extinguishers do you carry? Not including the unit in the refer compartment we have five in the rv, one in an unlocked and labeled outside compartment, and one in the truck. Overkill? Maybe. Insurance? Yes.

 

On edit: And as often happens Kirk posted a much more cogent and informative argument while I was writing mine! I second his post wholeheartedly.

[Jack Mayer]

I strongly recommend the automated extinguisher that Mark posted a picture of. Assuming you have an absorption fridge of any type. It may or may not save your RV if you have a fire. But it is relatively cheap insurance. We had one when we had an RV fridge.

 

Kirk, I'll argue a little with you that fridge fires are the number one cause of fires in RVs. I cannot support that with data. The data as reported indicates "electrical" as the number one source in towables, and "engine fire" as the number one source in motorized. Refrigerators are not broken out of the data last I checked (a year ago). So it is really difficult to put a number on the fridge fires. If you have a good source on that data I'd be interested in it, since a do a fire presentation (when Mac cannot - he is always the best presenter on that topic).

[dontrump]

Like Jack says I also disagree with this quote: **absorption refrigerators are the #1 cause of fire inside of an RV.** also to note IF you operate your fridge within the guidelines

set out by norcold and Dometic you don't need this device. Running fridges out of level is the #1 cause of overheat/failure

There were some norcolds that had the cooling units lines crack(too thin) but thats a different story and norcold had a similar device installed under a recall system

I have a norcold device and it also senses overheat and shuts the fridge down

I can not denie there have been fridge fires but personally are of the opinion the extent is grossly exaggerated especially by the sellers of **ARPrv product***

[57becky]

We had two cooling units replaced in our Norcold 1210 fridge last year, the first time due to crystals in the system plugging the orifice, and the second time due to a leak in the cooling unit. The Norcold recall device did not shut the unit down, it still attempted to operate, which was really dangerous, but we dodged that bullet. After the second failure, I purchased an ARP device with fan control and fan to install with the second repair. The beauty of these devices is that they prevent excess heat which causes the crystal issues as well as damage to the cooling units which can cause a rupture of the plumbing. The recall device will not prevent failure, just activates when a failure occurs, if it's working properly. So far, the fridge is working better than ever, so we are happy, and the small expense is worth the peace of mind.

[oldjohnt]

FWIW Absolutely NOTHING I just ran a simple Bing Search for "Number one cause of RV Fires" and there were 495,000 results I HAVENT READ THEM ALL LOL

 

http://www.bing.com/search?q=number+one+cause+of+RV+fires&form=PRUSEN&pc=EUPP_U358&mkt=en-us&refig=9fd65759ce57492e9d2053f1d659e336&pq=number+one+cause+of+rv+fires&sc=0-23&sp=-1&qs=n&sk=&cvid=9fd65759ce57492e9d2053f1d659e336

 

The thing is due to LP Gas,,,,,,,,,,, plus some questionable electrical installations,,,,,,,,,,,,,,plus due to all the road vibration,,,,,,,,,,,,plus gasoline or diesel present,,,,,,,,,,,,plus heat/flame operated fridges, furnaces, hot water heaters,,,,,,,,,,, ALL MAKE FOR POTENTIAL HAZARDS.

 

Sure, being an engineer I'm as safety conscious as most others and try to practice safety especially in the RV. HOWEVER I do NOT own each and every imaginable after market or optional safety device on the market. Some here have every bell and whistle under the sun and the best and latest and most expensive options, while others may choose not to own each and every after market device AND TO EACH THEIR OWN CHOICES.

 

I try to use common sense, put safety first, pull maintenance and visual inspections OFTEN.

 

Yall keep safe now

 

John T

[Jack Mayer]

You can do all that, John, and it will not help you if your RV fridge decides to barf on you. That is why in this particular case I recommend the auto extinguisher. This is one case I feel it is justified, weighing all the odds. Also, as 57Becky pointed out - there is a difference between detection and avoidance.

 

Your odds of a fridge fire are likely slim....no one knows because no one is publishing the number of fires in fridges. But clearly (to me) it is not all that great. But they do occur. I PERSONALLY know of five of them.

[dontrump]

We had two cooling units replaced in our Norcold 1210 fridge last year, the first time due to crystals in the system plugging the orifice, and the second time due to a leak in the cooling unit. The Norcold recall device did not shut the unit down, it still attempted to operate, which was really dangerous, but we dodged that bullet. After the second failure, I purchased an ARP device with fan control and fan to install with the second repair. The beauty of these devices is that they prevent excess heat which causes the crystal issues as well as damage to the cooling units which can cause a rupture of the plumbing. The recall device will not prevent failure, just activates when a failure occurs, if it's working properly. So far, the fridge is working better than ever, so we are happy, and the small expense is worth the peace of mind.

The ARP device has no ability as to the fridge working better than ever. Why your norcold device failed I have no idea but there designed to shut off the fridge if it senses a overheat

Iam on my fourth 1200 and 1210 series fridge in my 4th DPMH over the last 10 years and the only problem I have ever seen or had was a failed thermistor(sets temp)

Now I do believe the ARP system is far superior compared to the Norcold recall one no doubt as it shuts the fridge off if u forget when parked off level

which causes the crystal situation

 

**Parking on a hill, with your refer running while you go off to lunch, starts the degradation of the system and every time you do this, it adds up. There is no way to reverse this problem.

What happens in this situation, is that the solution in the cooling unit gets overheated, and a component of this solution crystallizes and becomes solid particles that float around and lodge where they're not supposed to.**

[Smitty77_7]

I was going to add the ARP to our Norcold 1200 unit if we had retained it. (We elected to jump to the Samsung Residential, once we were convinced our new battery bank and solar system were more then robust to support it.). I see no downside to the ARP, especially when driving in mootness roads, where you can be traveling not even close to level for longer periods of time. (We traveled with our Norcold set to Auto, so LP unless the generator was running.).

 

We also had the SS-30 Halon unit installed as an additional bit of insurance. As mentioned, may not save the coach, but could give you the extra time to get out safely!

 

We also had the Amish Cooling Unit installed and added extra pancake fans on the cooling unit, that I could control on/off from a switch inside the coach. Used it in extreme heats, especially if refrigerator side of the coach was baking in the sun. On the inside, we had two different battery powered fans, to assist in cooling. Overall, after the install of the Amish Cooling Unit, and the interior fans, the fridge and freezer worked very well for us.

 

I'm personally not a fan of the multiple Mickey Mouse recalls from Norcold. Will do my best to never purchase a Norcold product of any kind, due to them not stepping up to the plate for a marginal rising, and more important, defective tubing on their cooling units. Lives were, and are, at risk, and they did not do the right thing. (Felt the same way about Work Horse, on the brake problem. Do not care if it was them or Bosh that had the problem - Workhorse was ultimately responsible, and straight armed the problem for too many years. Even blaming owners on not driving proper braking technique. It was one of the reasons we did not go with the UFO in a Rexhall as our stop gap coach until retirement.)

 

IMO - If propane capability is important to an owner, say have boon docking and not into solar or mega battery banks. Then budgeting in and adding extra safety features for the use of propane, especially on suspect units like the Norcold 1200 - is an important safety item for you and your families.

 

Best to all,

Smitty

[Jimalberta]

I have both the recall device and the ARP device on my Norcold.....should be trouble free now for about thirty years....lol.

[dontrump]

If and when my 1210SS dies I will go house fridge but only because we need a larger capacity unit

[Kirk W]

Kirk, I'll argue a little with you that fridge fires are the number one cause of fires in RVs. I cannot support that with data. The data as reported indicates "electrical" as the number one source in towables, and "engine fire" as the number one source in motorized. Refrigerators are not broken out of the data last I checked (a year ago). So it is really difficult to put a number on the fridge fires. If you have a good source on that data I'd be interested in it, since a do a fire presentation (when Mac cannot - he is always the best presenter on that topic).

Actually, I should rephrase as the statement I was basing that upon said it is the most common cause of fires while staying in an RV. I read it recently but can't now locate the source. I'll modify the original post to reflect that. None the less, the absorption refrigerators are a major cause of RV fires and you also have mentioned taking precautions for them. I guess in my mind it really isn't important where in the pecking order of fires any one cause may be, but it is important to me to take advantage of reasonably priced safety devices and the ARPrv is one of the less costly, particularly for that type of fire.

 

I'll stand behind my statement that Mark Nemeth agrees with my belief in the ARPrv and recommends them, and I suggest that you read what he has written about them if you doubt.

 

Needless to say, there is one on my fridge; it is working flawlessly, and I no longer worry about whether my fridge is level. Now that’s a good gadget!

~ ~ Compiled by Mark Nemeth #45776

[Ray,IN]

I strongly recommend the automated extinguisher that Mark posted a picture of. Assuming you have an absorption fridge of any type. It may or may not save your RV if you have a fire. But it is relatively cheap insurance. We had one when we had an RV fridge.

 

Kirk, I'll argue a little with you that fridge fires are the number one cause of fires in RVs. I cannot support that with data. The data as reported indicates "electrical" as the number one source in towables, and "engine fire" as the number one source in motorized. Refrigerators are not broken out of the data last I checked (a year ago). So it is really difficult to put a number on the fridge fires. If you have a good source on that data I'd be interested in it, since a do a fire presentation (when Mac cannot - he is always the best presenter on that topic).

Annual RV frig fire numbers (4,000) are in this pdf http://cjbfire.com/RVRef-Fires.pdf

 

FWIW, I've decided to buy an ARP unit for our MH, based on this thread and my research finding those 2 authoritative links on RV frig fires.

[Jack Mayer]

Annual RV frig fire numbers (4,000) are in this pdf http://cjbfire.com/RVRef-Fires.pdf

 

FWIW, I've decided to buy an ARP unit for our MH, based on this thread and my research finding those 2 authoritative links on RV frig fires.

NFPA database describes the fires and types. I think if you read that article you will find that is not for RV fridge fires only, but all types. I've gone into the database and examined it, and you may find it interesting to do your own analysis of it.

 

I have no argument at all with the ARP unit. I actually think it is a good idea and mitigates the risk of a fire or fridge failure. I never said otherwise.

[Wrknrvr]

For some thoughts on refrigerator fires and prevention with or with out any additional equipment installed for safety.

 

If your fridge is not operating as you think it should. Turn it off and look where the propane burns to make the fridge function. If there is a smell of ammonia inside the RV or at the burner area you have a leaking cooling unit. It needs replaced.

If there is a yellow stain in the burner area it has leaked and that is sulphur from inside the cooling unit. Sulphur can catch on fire.

Sometimes you need to remove the tin covering on the burner assembly to find the yellow stain, but it can be small and still catch on fire.

If you find a yellow stain the cooling unit needs replaced.

I have had two refrigerator calls in the last month for units not operational. The customers try to get them working on electric, then they try it on gas. They may try for a day or two before they call.

When they call I have them turn the fridge off and look for ammonia, smell ammonia and the yellow stain.

I am at the North ranch escapees park working in the park as a RV tech. There are RVers hear to attend the boot camp and one of them has had trouble with the gas operation not working.

They have been trying to get the fridge working on gas for weeks. Even spent a few days in Quartzsite boon docking and fiddling with the gas operation.

Never even looked at the burner area. Did not have any idea to do so.

Luckily it was a ground problem for sensing flame at the burner area.

 

I am a Norcold and Dometic register dealer.

 

 

Just my thoughts on the subject. Vern

[gfstryder]

Great responses. Thanks.

[pinkcone]

Not nitpicking but to clarify. There are (4) substances inside the cooling unit of an RV absorption fridge: (1) water, (2) ammonia, (3) hydrogen and (4) sodium chromate. The yellow powder sometimes associated with a leak is sodium chromate which is <b>not</b> flammable. It is used in RV fridges as an anti-corrosive agent. The hydrogen gas in the sealed system is quite flammable and that is what causes fridge fires.

 

Lew

[Wrknrvr]

Thanks for the correction.

 

Safe Travels Vern

[coachmac9]

Another question about these Fridges...are they only a fire hazard when being operated on gas (and off level) or is just as much a problem on AC also? Obviously, I know very little about refrigeration so please excuse me if this is a dumb question!!!!!

[pjstough]

Another question about these Fridges...are they only a fire hazard when being operated on gas (and off level) or is just as much a problem on AC also? Obviously, I know very little about refrigeration so please excuse me if this is a dumb question!!!!!

According the the seller of the ARP device virtually all refrigerator fires he has seen happen when the refrigerator in on electric, and the reason being that with electric heat the heat is concentrated in a relatively small area of the boiler tube(I hope that is the correct term), as opposed to gas heat with spreads the heat all along the boiler tube.