Refrigerator Fire Protection

[coachmac9]

Thanks for the info Paul! I was hoping that it was the opposite!!

[Kirk W]

Thanks for the info Paul! I was hoping that it was the opposite!!

I'm wondering why it matters which is more probable? With a cost of less than $200 it seems like a good idea no matter which you use most since it has the appearance of making the refrigerator last longer as well as operating more safely.

[coachmac9]

Just thought maybe it was a problem that was isolated to one power source or the other. We use electricity 99.9 per cent of the time (since it is free) so it would have been something that was not needed if the fire hazard existed only when using gas...thus saving me the 200 dollars and marking off something else on the to-do list!! But I guess it now moves to the head of the list...right after the roof replacement is complete!!!

 

Kirk, is the ARPrv device something fairly simple to install? I'm fairly handy and usually do my own repairs but just have no knowledge on refrigeration systems.

[dontrump]

for what its worth and from the reading I have done the LPG/120V fridge 1200/1210 series norcold matters not 120V or LPG. If the fridge overheats and is not shut off a fire may insue

The leaking hydrogen gas is more liklely lite from a open flame

The biggest problem overall is people continued to operate their fridges even when they were not cooling correctly and therefore badley overheated casuing a heat of combustion fire

The hi temp shut down systems out there is to reduce that risk.A failed norcold cooling unit due to cracked thin wall tubes was a design defect now corrected and no shut down device will help that particular situation that's the way I understand things

 

The arp shutoff system also guards against people running their units off level and therefore causing heating and degradation of the cooling unit

[Kirk W]

Kirk, is the ARPrv device something fairly simple to install? I'm fairly handy and usually do my own repairs but just have no knowledge on refrigeration systems.

The most challenging part of the process is gaining access to the area. Some refrigerators have plenty of space and others are difficult. In the case of ours, it is a compact model and we had to pull it out about 4" from the installed position, which also means disconnecting the propane, but that was the most difficult part. Electrically, you do not cut any wires but just disconnect the 12v power and send it via the leads to the ARPrv control. The biggest problem for mine was the tight space to work. We also put in on with a fan control and added an exhaust fan as ours didn't come with one. Since that the refrigerator has served much better than as original. It really doesn't require a high degree of skill, just the ability to follow directions. You can also call Paul if you have any problems.

[57becky]

On our Norcold 1210, the hardest part of the ARP install was the installation of the temperature sensor on the boiler tube, but I installed it prior to the fridge being reinstalled after the second cooling unit was replaced, so that made it fairly easy. The rest of the install was pretty easy, but just took a little planning on where to install things. I purchased a couple automotive fuse holders with the 4 amp fuses to install during the installation as suggested in the instructions, one for the fan, the other for the power to the ARP device. I found the best way, at least for my install, to install the fan was to use cable ties through the vents of the lower access cover and then through the mounting holes of the fan. I used heavy duty 3M automotive double sided tape to mount the ARP device on the outside wall of the fridge, next to the main fridge control box. Just take your time. There is also quite a few photos and videos on their site that will help.

[coachmac9]

Great, thanks for the replies!

[Yarome]

This one is temperature-sensitive, and is capable of instantly filling the cavity behind the fridge with halon.

 

Mark, could you perhaps tell me where you got your fire suppressor?

 

Much appreciated.

[Kirk W]

Remember that the fire extinguishing systems are triggered by heat, meaning that a fire has to get a significant start before they trigger. They do noting to prevent fire, only put it out once started. A nice safety feature, but the only one I have ever seen that went off didn't put out the fire until there was major damage to the area at the rear of the refrigerator. I don't know where it was purchased, but it was a SS30 -90 -CAG system.

[fortytwo]

Me thinks this is much ado about nothing, and if anyone really reads the referenced study of "4000 refrigerator fires" they will find that the study essentially debunks the refrigerator being blamed as the source of RV fires. Refrigerator fires (except Norcold) are so rare you never read about them. I don't remember ever reading a article, and I've been using RV's and reading the RV mags for 52 years. If data exists I've never seen it.

 

In my early RV years absorption fridges were very sensitive to being off level. No fires though; they just stopped cooling until removed, turned upside down which enabled gravity to clear the bubble or relocate the crystals and the unit usually operated on reinstall. Haven't encountered any such problems in the last 15 years, possibly most of that time I have had leveling jacks.

 

If I had $200 to spend on an unnecessary gadget it wouldn't be on something to prevent a fire that is most, most unlikely. A fan inside the fridge to circulate air would be a much more useful $20 addition.

[Dutch_12078]

Me thinks this is much ado about nothing, and if anyone really reads the referenced study of "4000 refrigerator fires" they will find that the study essentially debunks the refrigerator being blamed as the source of RV fires. Refrigerator fires (except Norcold) are so rare you never read about them. I don't remember ever reading a article, and I've been using RV's and reading the RV mags for 52 years. If data exists I've never seen it.

 

So you're saying that when Dometic recalled over 900,000 RV fridges due to a reported fire hazard, it was "much ado about nothing"?

 

NHTSA Dometic Recall

[Kirk W]

Forbes Personal Finance............... RV Refrigerators

[NH2]

 

Mark, could you perhaps tell me where you got your fire suppressor?

 

Much appreciated.

Here you go...

http://www.firefightmarine.com/shopping-cart/auto-deploy-systems/

[NH2]

Remember that the fire extinguishing systems are triggered by heat, meaning that a fire has to get a significant start before they trigger.

Kirk, though I agree the auto-deploy system is triggered by heat, I feel your use of the word "significant" is a bit of a stretch.

My halon extinguisher triggers at 165°F. Mine is located just above the chimney which, as you know, under normal circumstances, runs pretty hot. I don't believe it would take a very big fire to push it over 165°.

But you're correct, it cannot "prevent" a fire, just quickly suppress it.

Mark

[Kirk W]

Kirk, though I agree the auto-deploy system is triggered by heat, I feel your use of the word "significant" is a bit of a stretch.

I suppose the key is to define the term significant. How much fire do you consider to be significant? Yours does trigger at what I'd consider to be a surprisingly low temperature, particularly as compared to the normal flue temperatures, which although I've not measured, I would think that they would be pretty close to that. It would be interesting to see a study done on what temperatures run in the space around the flue in both typical and hot outside temperatures. I'd only be guessing to offer an opinion on that. Even so, I'd rather prevent a fire than put one out.

[jbh]

I installed the ArP today.

 

It was a major pain the patootie. No problem with the manufacturer but the temp sensor had to be installed on the backside of a tube on the backside of the chimney way up in there surrounded by sharp metal and way up inside the actual opening in the side of the MH. Did I say it was hard to get to? I guess I have fairly big hands and fingers too.

 

Probably a 10-year-old could have easily done it but I didn't have one of those around.

 

Anyway, I finally got the thing in and well-surrounded by insulation.

 

Wiring was easy; hot through the device to hot, ground to ground and plug in the sensor wires.

 

And it's working. My 1993-vintage Dometic is running at 174C and I hope this thing helps it live a lot longer. Took me three hours including one happy-hour break after the second hour. Two hours were spent on the temp sensor and I probably didn't take a half-hour wiring it up. So if you're having the ArP professionally installed figure two hours labor.

 

The proper way to do it would have been to pull the fridge inboard six inches or so but that was above my pay grade and patience level.

 

One may ask why? If it makes my fridge last a bit longer by switching it off in an un-level condition it's already paid for itself. If it prevents a fire then it's value is innumerable. Of note is that the compartment behind the fridge is so small no extinguisher can be installed; I don't think I could even snake a sprinkler head in there.

[Yarome]

Here you go...

http://www.firefightmarine.com/shopping-cart/auto-deploy-systems/

 

Thanks there, Mark! Much appreciated.

[Kirk W]

Installed, maintained correctly/regularly, and used in accordance with the manufacturers directions (mainly, keep it level), I don't see any need for any undue concern.

Is that not also true of tires, yet I am sure that you have posted that you use a tire pressure monitor?? This device is not so very different from the tire monitor but it prevents while the TPM only informs you. It also costs far less than your TPM.

[Jack Mayer]

Mitigating risk is a personal decision. I know people that do not (still) have health insurance. I know people that run without tire monitors (and then complain about blowouts). I know people that carry MINIMAL liability insurance on their vehicles - only what the government requires. I know people that are worth millions yet have no umbrella insurance. Risk is in the eyes of the beholder.

 

Personally, I try to balance risk management and expense. Some things are worth protecting yourself against, IMO. Tire failures are managed best with a TPMS, since most blowouts are due to low pressure. Refrigerator fires are well managed with the ARP and a heat triggered extinguisher. Again, IMO.

 

Do what you want - everyone has their own tolerance of risk. But to say there is little danger of a refrigerator fire is not really accurate. Although no one really knows how many fires there really are, there are enough that I'd bet many people know someone that has had one.

[JohnM]

We had two cooling units replaced in our Norcold 1210 fridge last year, the first time due to crystals in the system plugging the orifice, and the second time due to a leak in the cooling unit. The Norcold recall device did not shut the unit down, it still attempted to operate, which was really dangerous, but we dodged that bullet. After the second failure, I purchased an ARP device with fan control and fan to install with the second repair. The beauty of these devices is that they prevent excess heat which causes the crystal issues as well as damage to the cooling units which can cause a rupture of the plumbing. The recall device will not prevent failure, just activates when a failure occurs, if it's working properly. So far, the fridge is working better than ever, so we are happy, and the small expense is worth the peace of mind.

 

Some have mentioned the Norcold Solution as being perhaps all that is necessary for over temperature protection. My experience is that the design flaw of the module is such that it is very likely that water intrusion to the module will activate it . Be prepared to address the outcome:

 

http://nuwaowners.org/forum/index.php/topic,19563.msg309817.html#msg309817

 

You could jumper the Norcold module in an emergency, leaving your rig with no over temperature protection, or install the ARP control for that additional measure of protection.