$1000 fine for fueling at the wrong pump

[Randyretired]

10ponies,

I appreciate your post. It could save a lot of us from the $1000 fine. I frequent AZ and own property there. In the past many truck stops would refund the tax even though we have a 3 axle HDT. They would see the Private RV sign and just automatically refund. Then some stations wouldn't refund. Confused I called the number to report violations and asked if it applied to RV's. An enforcement officer returned my call and said he didn't know but assured me that RV's were not something his group worried about. The ticket could have been mine even though I tried to find out! Now I am reading it could apply when I am in my PU. This law may not be confusing to some but I don't need the problems. Also in the smaller towns and rural areas I prefer the higher tax fuel is more difficult to find and usually have prices of 20 cents or more a gallon than the discount stations. In any case these trucks have large tanks and I will just buy fuel out of state. The CDL requirements are different in my home state. I had a CDL but I gave it up since I didn't need it so that is not a problem for me. However, the fine for not having a CDL when needed is a often steep. In some states the fine is $5000. I guess I am glad I am not a AZ resident. Great state to visit but I will buy my fuel out of state.

[TXiceman]

Even after reading all of this I do not know how to fuels mu truck. maybe my brain is getting old or I am reading too much into the law. The law seems to state GVWr and does not mention GCWR, but they are enforcing it on GCWR.

 

I have an F350, crew cab dually that has a rating in the literature and owners manual of 30,000# GCWR. The sticker on the door jamb is stamped GVWR of 13,300 #.

 

So, do I use the auto or truck pumps without the 5er and with the truck solo.

 

Ken

[Newt]

This law is really double jeopardy! If you are driving that large a vehicle, you get less MPG, therefore, paying more tax.

 

Newt

[Bob Cochran]

Even after reading all of this I do not know how to fuels mu truck. maybe my brain is getting old or I am reading too much into the law. The law seems to state GVWr and does not mention GCWR, but they are enforcing it on GCWR.

 

I have an F350, crew cab dually that has a rating in the literature and owners manual of 30,000# GCWR. The sticker on the door jamb is stamped GVWR of 13,300 #.

 

So, do I use the auto or truck pumps without the 5er and with the truck solo.

 

Ken

Your ok with 13,300 # they use GVWR not combination. So you can fuel auto or truck pumps. I know some like to use the truck pumps only because the nozzle is larger and high speed pump can fuel faster no matter the extra 8 cents. When they are talking about 3 axles they are talking about ur truck not the combination of your truck and 5er.

[VallAndMo]

Hello folks,

 

I've seen that thread a few weeks ago and it caught my attention. Surely related to it, here's what I found in my email inbox this morning; I paste it here for the benefit of those who aren't (yet) Escapees members:

 

Diesel Fueling in Arizona
Message from Jim Koca, Advocacy Director

Arizona fuel-tax rates are different from what we may be used to while traveling throughout the United States. This fuel law has been on the books for several years. The law states:

The Arizona tax on gasoline (motor vehicle fuel) is 18 cents per gallon. Use fuel (diesel) is taxed at two rates in Arizona.

-If the use fuel is used in the propulsion of a use class motor vehicle on a highway in this state, the tax rate is 26 cents for each gallon.

-A "use class motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle that uses use fuel on a highway in this state and that is a road tractor, truck tractor, truck or passenger carrying vehicle having a declared gross vehicle weight of more than 26,000 pounds or having more than two axles.

I talked to the Revenue & Fuel Tax Administration Fuel Tax Manager in Phoenix, Az, and asked for the definition of the "passenger carrying vehicle" and he stated that would include a motor home. What this means is those who have a vehicle that has three or more axles or a declared gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001+ lbs are required to use the truck lanes and pay the higher fuel tax. The regular diesel tax is 18 cents. Filling the RV at the regular pumps will subject you to a citation with a steep fine. Arizona has a Fuel Tax Evasion Unit that monitors the filling of vehicles at fuel stations.

Escapees feel that this information should be sent out to all of the members that travel through Arizona.

I would like to thank all of the members who have sent in this information to Headquarters so that we could investigate this issue.

 

 

Cheers,

--

Vall.

[VallAndMo]

Hello folks, and Jim Koka (if you are reading this):

 

Hello folks,

 

I've seen that thread a few weeks ago and it caught my attention. Surely related to it, here's what I found in my email inbox this morning; I paste it here for the benefit of those who aren't (yet) Escapees members:

 

On a related note, I'm still in doubt:

1) I imagine a lone, non-trailer-pulling 1-ton pickup truck should be able to use the "normal" (non-truck) fuel lines: after all, its GVWR at about 12Klbs is *way* below 26Klbs and it has only 2 axles. Is that correct?

 

2) What about the same truck pulling a 2-axles 14.5K lbs 5thWheel trailer? Alone, they both qualify on both GVWR and number of axles, but in combination they would exceed both number of axles (2+2= 4) and GVWR (12+14.5= 26.5 Klbs). So, what is the correct way to count it, together or separated?

 

Cheers,

--

Vall.

[Rif]

What everyone seems to be missing in this is that the regulation used the term "Declared Gross Vehicle Weight". Exactly what is the "Declared Gross Vehicle Weight"? In the research I have been able to do, it appears that this is a weight that must be supplied on some form required of commercial operators. I can find nothing that defines this otherwise.

 

It certainly does not have anything to do with combined weights, so leave whatever you are hauling out of the question. But, in light of the absence of a "declaration", does it mean the GVWR on the door pillar, or does it mean the Gross Vehicle Weight on your vehicle registration (if specified), or is it meaningless? No one seems to address this question.

 

Now, certainly any 3 axle vehicle must pay the higher rate (vehicle only, not counting what it is towing), but exactly what does "Declared Gross Vehicle Weight" mean in light of the fact that non-commercial vehicles are not required to supply such a document in order to be registered?

[2gypsies]

We have a sticker behind the driver's seat of our motorhome that gives all the various weights. Our 'declared vehicle weight rating is 15,060', and we only have two axels, therefore, we can still use the regular RV slots at stations, such as Pilot or Flying J. This is what we usually have always done except if there's a line - then we go to the truck area and ask for the discount. We've never had problems in either spot.

 

I believe this whole thing came up on another forum and the guy took his HDT without the 5th wheel attached, to the regular pumps and he got a fine. I don't know what his official 'declared vehicle weight rating' is but obviously he was overweight.

 

It's amazing how this whole thing exploded into fear!

 

Thank you Escapees for working on behalf of all of us - once again.

[RickS]

What everyone seems to be missing in this is that the regulation used the term "Declared Gross Vehicle Weight". Exactly what is the "Declared Gross Vehicle Weight"? In the research I have been able to do, it appears that this is a weight that must be supplied on some form required of commercial operators. I can find nothing that defines this otherwise.

 

It certainly does not have anything to do with combined weights, so leave whatever you are hauling out of the question. But, in light of the absence of a "declaration", does it mean the GVWR on the door pillar, or does it mean the Gross Vehicle Weight on your vehicle registration (if specified), or is it meaningless? No one seems to address this question.

 

Now, certainly any 3 axle vehicle must pay the higher rate (vehicle only, not counting what it is towing), but exactly what does "Declared Gross Vehicle Weight" mean in light of the fact that non-commercial vehicles are not required to supply such a document in order to be registered?

 

 

Rif,

You may want to look a post I did earlier in this thread. http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=113059&p=724298

 

After reading through all of this I would just fill at the truck pumps if I had to and pay the tax. The 300 gallons of fuel I haul give's me the choice to fill in another state and avoid the issue entirely.

[Walkerl]

Hello folks, and Jim Koka (if you are reading this):

 

 

On a related note, I'm still in doubt: .......

 

2) What about the same truck pulling a 2-axles 14.5K lbs 5thWheel trailer? Alone, they both qualify on both GVWR and number of axles, but in combination they would exceed both number of axles (2+2= 4) and GVWR (12+14.5= 26.5 Klbs). So, what is the correct way to count it, together or separated?

 

Cheers,

--

Vall.

 

You didn't put the fuel in your 5th wheel and it didn't propel your 5th wheel. The section says use fuel used for "propulsion of a use class MOTOR vehicle". The weight is GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) not GCVW (Gross combined vehicle weight.

[DuffMan]

2Gypsies:

 

"We have a sticker behind the driver's seat of our motorhome that gives all the various weights. Our 'declared vehicle weight rating is 15,060', "

 

You stated the sticker reads: 'declared vehicle weight rating is 15,060' I have never seen a sticker using the word "is" therefore I must ask if you are you paraphrasing what the sticker actually reads?

 

Is the term "Declared Vehicle Weight Rating" stated on that sticker? I've never seen that term on a vehicle sticker before.

 

I ask this since the question is: Is the term "Declared Vehicle Weight Rating" an industry universally acknowledged term or one defined by AZ statute? Previous posters have stated it is a statutorily defined term and applicable only to vehicles used in commerce. The answer may mean $1000.00 to the OP.

[Dutch_12078]

"2. "Declared gross weight" has the same meaning prescribed in section 28-5431. If a declaration has not been made, declared gross weight means gross weight."

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/28/05201.htm

[Rif]

"2. "Declared gross weight" has the same meaning prescribed in section 28-5431. If a declaration has not been made, declared gross weight means gross weight."

 

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/28/05201.htm

So, gross weight means what it actually weighs, right? It is not the gross vehicle weight rating. Therefore, any non-commercial vehicle with less than 3 axles that weighs less than 26,000 pounds is not required to pay the extra tax. Sounds pretty simple to me. Do you suppose the fuel tax cops see it that way?

[Dutch_12078]

I have no idea how the fuel tax cops see it, but they would certainly be the ones I'd be concerned about if I were running a diesel coach in AZ that might fit the requirements in the regulation.

[Bob Cochran]

I think part of the confusion is in Arizona(dont' know about other states) when you register your HDT you can tell them(declare) the GVW rating. For instance mine has a declared weight of 25,950 LBS. I did this so Blue Sky Insurance would consider me a MDT and not an HDT because Blue Sky specifically told me they would not provide coverage for a vehicle over 26,000 lbs. I do not know if that is only for HDT or if they would still cover a MH over 26,000 LBS. So if I should be "FORCED" to be scaled and my HDT including pin weight is not over in my case 25,950 LBS I am golden. Are we confused yet?

[traviscarr]

Diesel Fueling in Arizona

 

Arizona fuel-tax rates are different from what we may be used to while traveling throughout the United States. This fuel law has been on the books for several years. The law states:

The Arizona tax on gasoline (motor vehicle fuel) is 18¢ per gallon. Use fuel (diesel) is taxed at two rates in Arizona.

• If the use fuel is used in the propulsion of a use class motor vehicle on a highway in this state, the tax rate is 26¢ for each gallon.
  • A "use class motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle that uses use fuel on a highway in this state and that is a road tractor, truck tractor, truck or passenger carrying vehicle having a declared gross vehicle weight of more than 26,000 pounds or having more than two axles.

I talked to the Revenue & Fuel Tax Administration Fuel Tax Manager in Phoenix, Az, and asked for the definition of the “passenger carrying vehicle” and he stated that would include a motor home. What this means is those who have a vehicle that has three or more axles or a declared gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001+ lbs are required to use the truck lanes and pay the higher fuel tax. The regular diesel tax is 18 cents. Filling the RV at the regular pumps will subject you to a citation with a steep fine. Arizona has a Fuel Tax Evasion Unit that monitors the filling of vehicles at fuel stations.

 

Escapees feel that this information should be sent out to all of the members that travel through Arizona.

 

I would like to thank all of the members who have sent in this information to Headquarters so that we could investigate this issue.

 

Jim Koca

RV Advocacy Director

To all SKPs:

When I wrote about the Arizona fuel tax problem and put it in the queue to go out via “Club News,” the information that I had received to that date was correct. RVers were subject to the higher tax on diesel fuel purchased in Arizona. There have been many RV groups calling and emailing Arizona about this issue.

 

Today, after “Club News” was sent out, I re-contacted the Arizona Revenue and Fuel Tax Administration for clarification on questions that I received from the membership and learned that a new policy was issued on Friday, October 10, 2014. In summary, RVers will be exempt from the higher tax rate unless they are operating as a commercial vehicle.

 

Here is a link to the copy of the policy dated October 10, 2014, and the Arizona Motor Vehicle Division Policy 13.2.3 that is referenced in the policy.

I would strongly suggest that you print these papers and carry them with you while fueling in Arizona. Officers who enforce the fuel tax laws may not have received this information.

 

I think this decision of the Arizona Revenue and Fuel Tax Administration came about through the lobbying efforts of everyone concerned with this problem. It is definitely a win for RVers.

Jim Koca

RV Advocacy Director

[Shallow Draft]

Seems to me it only provides an exemption for motorhomes not trucks. Not every one of our trucks is registered as a motorhome.

Maybe I am not reading it clearly this early.

[jtr]

WIN!

 

 

Look at B.

[RickS]

This is clearly a step forward for those of us just using their HDT's for recreational use only. Another document for the binder in the truck.

[Cyberdave]

Good Job!!

[skp51443]

More good info (documents and contacts) in the other topic on HDT & MDT issues.

 

http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=113604#entry727905

[ICPete]

Seems to me it only provides an exemption for motorhomes not trucks. Not every one of our trucks is registered as a motorhome.

Maybe I am not reading it clearly this early.

I would have to agree, as paragraph B in the above-linked Motor Home Policy 13.2.3 states:

 

B. A motor home is exempt from weight fees unless being used in the furtherance of a

commercial enterprise.

- A truck, truck tractor or commercial vehicle that has been modified to incorporate

temporary living quarters or is used primarily for drawing another vehicle on a fifth-

wheel attachment shall be titled and/or registered as a truck tractor.

 

While it appears that this document is specific to titling and registration regulations in AZ, it also appears that ADOT is referencing it for clarification of their fuel tax policy.

Someone with a modified HDT registered as a motorhome (or house car in CA) would possibly fall into a gray area and would at least have a case to argue against the additional tax.

 

However, someone like me, with an HDT registered as a Private Truck in SD, would clearly fall outside ADOT's definition of motor home. It doesn't help that I have only three of the "life support systems" listed, and those two are NOT permanently installed! If/when I ever need to fuel in AZ, I would feel obligated to pay the extra 8 cents/gallon tax. However, I plan to do my darndest to avoid fueling in AZ in any case.

 

As usual, the AZ regs, even with the new clarifications just issued, fail to allow for private (non-commercial) use of HDTs.

[skp51443]

From the other topic: http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=113604#entry728180

Arizona Fuel Tax Law – Part 2 – The Clarification

Escapees RV Club takes its advocacy very seriously. When we work on an issue, we always seek verification. In this case, it appears that the information that we received from the Arizona Revenue and Fuel Tax Administration in September, 2014 was incomplete at best.

Since our news bulletin dated October 14, 2014, the Arizona Fuel Tax issue has blasted across the RV Community and social media sites. These regulations need to be scrutinized and clarifications made. If they were not so convoluted, we would not have been misinformed, RVers would not have been incorrectly cited, stickers on fuel pumps would not be misleading and the RVing public would immediately know which pump to use when fueling in Arizona.

At this point, the best advice we can offer is a quote from Ryan Harding with the Arizona Department of Transportation:

Arizona does have a dual-tiered diesel tax system. The issue of which tax tier one fits into comes down to whether you are using your vehicle for commercial purposes or personal leisure.

RV owners who are using their RVs for personal pleasure can fill up with diesel fuel that is taxed at $0.18 per gallon. As long as it’s being used for personal use, weight limits do not apply.

If the RV is being used for commercial use or the furthering of a business and weighs more than 26,000 pounds, then the driver must fill up with diesel fuel taxed at $0.26 per gallon. Any situation where the RV is being used to help an individual or a business make money can be defined as commercial use. Examples of this include, but are not limited to, an RV that is registered to a business, such as an LLC, or a musical group using an RV to travel to venues to play for money.

So, to reiterate, the 26,000 pound weight limit only applies if the RV is being used to help further a business or commercial enterprise.
All diesel pumps in Arizona have ADOT warning labels which direct the consumer on the specific tax rate at that pump and legal requirements for using the lower taxed fuel.

If the RV owner fills up at diesel pumps taxed at the higher rate, but they qualify for the lower tax rate, they can contact the gas retailer and request an $0.08 per gallon refund.

The fine for fuel tax evasion in Arizona is $1,000 or $10 per gallon pumped, whichever is greater.

Thanks,

Ryan Harding
Arizona Department of Transportation
Office of Public Information
602.712.8111 (office)
news@azdot.gov (media)
azdot.gov


I would like to thank Greg Gerber with RV Daily Report for furnishing the above information.

In summary, the information that I received in September from the Arizona Revenue and Fuel Tax Administration office was not entirely correct. Non-commercial motor homes and 5^th wheels used for personal leisure are exempt from the higher fuel tax. In the meantime, we will continue to push for cleaner and clearer policies so that the general RVing public understands what they should be doing to meet the laws of Arizona.

I hope this has clarified any problems with the Arizona fuel tax laws. If for some reason you fill up at the $.26 fuel tax pumps, be sure to go back inside and request your refund of the $.08 per gallon.

Jim Koca
Escapees Advocacy Director

[10ponies]

So here is the latest on my ticket. I have a court date of Feb. 2 where I can present my case.

A case worker who specializes in settlements called me and said she would work with me to settle the case and hopefully a reduced fine.

 

I told her I didn't want to settle the case I wanted the law changed or fairly enforced.

 

Since I am in the fuels business, I am going to get the APMA (Arizona Petroleum Markets Association) involved.

 

I plan to make this thread part of my argument.

 

So....if anyone has anything to say on this, now is the time! A letter from the Escapees Club wouldn't hurt either.

[10ponies]

Just saw the above post Jim Koca. Unfortunately, this is not how the law reads on the pump sticker and not how LEO is enforcing.

 

Should be an interesting hearing.