$1000 fine for fueling at the wrong pump

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

Here's a map of state rates

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/map-state-gasoline-tax-rates-2014

Might help in planning your routes to fill up in the lower tax states and bypass the higher rates.

[TXiceman]

I just don't like paying more than my fair share. Treat RVers like commercial truckers when they do not put on as many miles or as much road damage? Not right.

 

We we should pay more...how about something like 2 cents more, not 8 cents more. And why not hit the gasoline RVers as well.

 

Ken

[Bob Cochran]

I cannot help it i have been known to knock down wasp nest with sticks too!!! I read a link just today that reviewed all States fuel taxes. What they did isi strip out the Fed tax so only the State tax remained though there is still probably county or city taxes left on them. So here I hit the wasp nest, Texas tax was 20 cents and Arizona's was 19 cents!!!! I just could not resist l really couldn't

[Guest Lostinaz]

Yeah, but for a "use fuel" vehicle in Arizona, i.e. a commercial vehicle> 26,000 lbs., you have to add an extra 8 cents.

 

What blows bad is California's and New York's rates-so much higher than other states. Wow.

[rickeieio]

No one has said they cannot afford the fuel, but your pomposity is noted...

 

Okay, I deserved that. I made my post when I was tired. Worked close to 100 hours in the past week.

 

But, this thread is now on the sixth page, discussing something that won't cost many of us much in the grand scheme of things.

 

I suggest we look at something to talk about which might actually save us some real dollars. Like perhaps finding an insurance company who understands our rigs, and like to see a mass exodus to them.

[Big5er]

So here I hit the wasp nest, Texas tax was 20 cents and Arizona's was 19 cents!!!! I just could not resist l really couldn't

Bob, once again, I couldn't care less what the tax rate is. I will pay whatever it is. My issue is being charged EXTRA, ie: more than EVERYONE ELSE that is driving a personal (not commercial) vehicle simply because I have a large RV.

[Randyretired]

I agree with Big5er and others on this but I also don't like the fact that I can't just buy fuel. In some of the small towns and other places I have stayed finding a high tax station is just one more problem. I will only purchase AZ fuel when I absolutely need to from now on. I generally carry enough to get back out of the state. This whole diesel fuel thing and a special group to enforce it.... Well I will just stop complaining now.

[Bill & Janet Adams]

You are not being charged extra based on being an RV you are being charge extra because (or not being given a discount) because a 26,000# vehicle does more damage to the road bed than a 10,000# pickup truck. Someone had to draw a line somewhere to reward those who selected a diesel engine option to save fuel and arguably reduced air pollution. By your standard, a diesel powered 4 door Mercedes should pay the same as an 18-wheeler and in most cities they do. In AZ there was a tax reduction (or addition if you like) put in place to reward users and encourage diesel use as a fuel in smaller vehicles. It may or may not have been a good idea and it may or may not have worked but it's a reality and if you want the law changed (yes, it's the law) you should move to AZ and vote the legislators out. Why is no one offended by the much higher taxes in other states or the 0.30 gallon added tax on all non-commercial diesel users in OR!

[Striper]

You are not being charged extra based on being an RV you are being charge extra because (or not being given a discount) because a 26,000# vehicle does more damage to the road bed than a 10,000# pickup truck. Someone had to draw a line somewhere to reward those who selected a diesel engine option to save fuel and arguably reduced air pollution. By your standard, a diesel powered 4 door Mercedes should pay the same as an 18-wheeler and in most cities they do. In AZ there was a tax reduction (or addition if you like) put in place to reward users and encourage diesel use as a fuel in smaller vehicles. It may or may not have been a good idea and it may or may not have worked but it's a reality and if you want the law changed (yes, it's the law) you should move to AZ and vote the legislators out. Why is no one offended by the much higher taxes in other states or the 0.30 gallon added tax on all non-commercial diesel users in OR!

Bill,

 

Having driven Commercial rigs in Oregon I can tell you that the lower Rte AT THE PUMP for Commercial is not the whole story. ALL Commercial rigs are required to BUY A PERMIT for traveling through Oregon. The permit includes the fuel tax for the route through the state that they will be traveling. So a Commercial rig can drive through the state without buying any fuel and will still have payed the Fuel Tax for the number of gallons the State has figured it would burn to make the trip. No free ride there.

 

Joe

[Big5er]

Bill, you and I have already argued the discrepancies in your road damage theory. I won't bother to repeat them, since all you do is repeat the same old rhetoric. And, no, by my standard any PERSONAL vehicle (ie your 4 door Mercedes) should pay the same as every other PERSONAL vehicle, not the same as a COMMERCIAL vehicle that puts 10 times the number of miles on the road as any PERSONAL vehicle. (That is the issue that you can;t seem to grasp). Also, my PERSONAL vehicle does not weigh 26,001 lbs. It has a GVWR of more than that, but it does not weigh that, so how is that fair? How does that figure into your road damage argument?

 

As I have also mentioned, I have no need to change Arizona's law. I am more than capable of by-passing every fuel station in their entire state. You seem to forget previous statements that don't fit your way of thinking. Why is that?

[Guest Lostinaz]

Oregon is expensive.

On top of having apportioned registration there you have to pay 16.38 cents per mile for an 80,000 pound vehicle. They have license plate readers at the scales and know if you paid.

http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/motcarr/reg/9928.pdf

[Randyretired]

As many of us have said they can have a lot of nothing. I will buy my fuel somewhere else. The theory most states use is a heavy vehicle uses more fuel per mile and already pays more. AZ has decided to make a confusing law and even hire a special group to enforce it. A year ago when I called the number to report violations to ask about this even the enforcement officer couldn't figure it out.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Bill, you and I have already argued the discrepancies in your road damage theory. I won't bother to repeat them, since all you do is repeat the same old rhetoric. And, no, by my standard any PERSONAL vehicle (ie your 4 door Mercedes) should pay the same as every other PERSONAL vehicle, not the same as a COMMERCIAL vehicle that puts 10 times the number of miles on the road as any PERSONAL vehicle. (That is the issue that you can;t seem to grasp). Also, my PERSONAL vehicle does not weigh 26,001 lbs. It has a GVWR of more than that, but it does not weigh that, so how is that fair? How does that figure into your road damage argument?

 

As I have also mentioned, I have no need to change Arizona's law. I am more than capable of by-passing every fuel station in their entire state. You seem to forget previous statements that don't fit your way of thinking. Why is that?

 

 

Just wanted to point out that the miles you drive doesn't matter. A commercial vehicle will buy more fuel and pay more taxes for those additional miles. Under your reasoning, a 27,000 pound box van will weigh less than you so he shouldn't have to pay the higher tax either, correct?

[Big5er]

I

 

 

Under your reasoning, a 27,000 pound box van will weigh less than you so he shouldn't have to pay the higher tax either, correct?

What is it about what I say that you people do not get? Am I writing in a foreign language? I have said it many times. Is your box van example a PERSONAL VEHICLE? If so, then yes, I am saying he shouldn't have to pay the higher tax either. If it is a COMMERCIAL VEHICLE then no, that is not what I am saying. See the difference now? Red vs Blue?

 

Color me done with this thread. Wow, this is just amazing to me.

[Bobi and Dick McKee]

"AZ has decided to make a confusing law and even hire a special group to enforce it."

Randy, not sure what's confusing. If you weigh 26000 pounds you pay it. If you weigh 25999 you don't. Doesn't seem so confusing, and ADOT folks do a lot more than enforce the fuel tax law.

[Bobi and Dick McKee]

I found this table as I followed this thread. I was surprised to see what some states are charging.

 

 

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/mf.pdf

[Randyretired]

I pull a home built flatbed 3 axle trailer behind a PU. When it is loaded it could be over 26,000 pounds. Empty less than 26,000. The GVW is not declared. When the trailer is on which fuel do I use? Empty or loaded. A year ago even the enforcement officials were not sure. In any case I am not taking chances. I will buy my fuel in another state. There is a special group just to enforce this law and a 24 hour number to report fuel purchased illegally. ADOT even advertises the number.

[Ronbo]

It is set by the tow vehicle, not the towed.

[Bill & Janet Adams]

I

 

What is it about what I say that you people do not get? Am I writing in a foreign language? I have said it many times. Is your box van example a PERSONAL VEHICLE? If so, then yes, I am saying he shouldn't have to pay the higher tax either. If it is a COMMERCIAL VEHICLE then no, that is not what I am saying. See the difference now? Red vs Blue?

 

Color me done with this thread. Wow, this is just amazing to me.

 

So how exactly does a 30,000# commerical vehicle do more damage to the road bed than a 30,000# personal vehicle relieving the personal vehicle from paying the tax?

[Kevin H]

rickeieio - your response was terrific. Were we to meet I would be glad to shake your hand...

 

-- Kevin

[Cyberdave]

All this over a single incident?? Over a tax of .08?? $80 over 1k gallons really??

 

122 posts with boycott AZ, insults and the flexing of mighty keyboard muscles and all over .08?

 

If you like it don't buy fuel there or, move to AZ where you have a vote.

 

If you think AZ will miss your $$ I'd lay odds they won't notice it.

 

I have to say being a native AZ desert rat, I've seen what heat and all the weight of trucks do to the roads. If you drive a HDT or a bus sized RV you impact the roads period. A little logic would say that the tax is directly proportional to the miles driven. You drive from Phx to Flag and back it's 300 miles. The heavy vehicles impact the road the same for that 300 miles regardless of what they are.

 

All this ire over eight cents amazing

 

 

[skp51443]

The eight cents seems to have taken over the original thousand dollar fine aspect of this topic. I'm not really concerned one way or the other about a few cents but that fine would put a real dent in my toy budget.

[Bob Cochran]

Bob, once again, I couldn't care less what the tax rate is. I will pay whatever it is. My issue is being charged EXTRA, ie: more than EVERYONE ELSE that is driving a personal (not commercial) vehicle simply because I have a large RV.

See I poked the nest and got stung like that never happened!!! AHHH in red and large print too, I was successful.

 

I kind of agree lets what and see if the citation results in a fine and how much!

 

Not to rob this thread but ion Arizona I need a full CDL including physical certificate. I started a week before it expired on 10/4/14 and I found out after my 3 artery heart bypass last December I needed and a medical release including echo cardiogram which i finally got scheduled for 10/17/14. I the mean time my COMMERCIAL license has been suspended and will be revoked by 10/27/14 unless I get this clearance from the cardiologist. No matter what will have to get it re-instated which has some minor fees to do.

 

Now that is a problem!!!! Don't respond to this, I don't want to even get started, it is merely an example of far more important stuff to ponder.

[10ponies]

Randy,

 

If the DOT guys think you are over 26,000 GCVW(pick up or not) truck and trailer. They walk up and ask you," what do you weigh". If you are over 26,000 pounds they are going to nail you for the fuel tax, no CDL, and possible over total gross for the truck. These guys worked the same truck stop for a least and hour and a half and they were still there when I left.

 

I have lived in AZ for 45 years and love the state. My purpose with this tread was to inform everyone what the law was and how it was getting enforced.

Looks like even with the extra tax Arizona is still a good place to fuel.

[Walkerl]

 

...If the DOT guys think you are over 26,000 GCVW(pick up or not) truck and trailer. They walk up and ask you," what do you weigh". If you are over 26,000 pounds they are going to nail you...

This section is not GCVW it is GVW. It says the tax applies to use fuel purchased when used for "propulsion of a use class MOTOR vehicle". It specifically defines a use class MOTOR vehicle as having a declared weight of over 26,000 or 3 or more axles. A pickup pulling a trailer of some type would never fall under this section unless the pickup was more than 2 axles or the pickup weighed over 26,000#. Every type vehicle referenced in the section is a MOTOR vehicle - no trailers and to be applicable that vehicle must be more than 2 axles or over 26,000#. In addition, a pickup pulling a trailer is not one vehicle - it is 2 vehicles.

 

" If the use fuel is used in the propulsion of a use class MOTOR vehicle on a highway in this state, the tax rate is 26¢ for each gallon. •A "use class motor vehicle" means a MOTOR vehicle that USES use fuel on a highway in this state and that is a road tractor, truck tractor, truck or passenger carrying vehicle having a declared gross vehicle weight of more than 26,000 pounds or having more than two axles."